Fatter than Joey

Some Texans are great I liked the one with the chainsaw, the others not so much.

Congrats!

Derrick Turnbow intentionally walks Jon Jay. But how did they know it was intentional?

http://www.millionaireplayboy.com/mpb/wp-content/gallery/mpb_batphone/finishedphone.jpg

It's a left handed helmet so it costs more.

Here is what I propose. I am really not looking for a counter-proposal. And even if I thought I was 90% likely to win this bet, I still value the ability to participate on this site that I'm not willing to take the 10% risk of not being able to post. I am not even 90% sure, and I would risk it. The fantasy baseball site I post on a lot handles bets with signatures. The loser has to live with a signature of the winners choice for a full year. That seems appropriate in this case. I appreciate this -- however, my signature is awesome, and is not going anywhere. C'mon Strawboss -- I am giving you the opportunity to run me out of town..., that's got to be something that will help your resume or get you a little extra sugar in your coffee from the ladies... But at least FTJ's proposal had some consequences. Exactly, and it is enforceable as well -- that's all I am really looking for. Given the authoritative manner in which you present your arguments, I would have never guessed you would not want to put your money (so to speak) where your mouth is. If you win, you get rid of me, and you perhaps legitimize the manner in which you handle yourself in arguments -- if you lose you are only being held accountable. I don't see where you are getting a bad deal in this.

While I agree a higher power probably has more important things to do than tune in for the AFC Championship Jesus is a part of Steeler Nation, and watches the AFC championship when Pittsburgh is in it.

Because the discussion evolves beyond the original post once you hit 10 pages or so Fair enough. Because someone goes to one extreme (without necessarily having the ammo to back it up), am I supposed to be pushed toward the other extreme? No, not at all -- I just think you could have framed your answer in a quantifiable manner -- I think that was the point of the original post as in "X ERA after Y Time". I would have been sincerely interested in your opinion as stated like that. There's also a lot of historical data (not just on Soup) to suggest that fans are overreacting to a small sample because of the emotional attachment to the team/game/player(s) Sure but there is as much historical data that teams/managers either overreact to small samples, just like fans, or wait too long to make changes because of attachments to players. I don't know why fans have to be the ones that are always demonized, .... when there is Ned Yost sitting right there, staring at you in a surly manner... but I digress... Again, we are not going to agree on his performance on OD, so might as well let him get some more starts in. I don't think he pitched as bad on OD as he did in his last start -- I think his OD start was "neutral" I guess -- I just didn't see anything in that start that made me think his next one was going to be any better. I NEVER expected him to walk in 3 guys in one inning, but he did. I understand that's not a game-sensitive prediction, but I don't believe it should be based upon X more games of performance level Z. I looked at it the question as trying to predict what the Brewers would do, not what I would do necessarily. -- For example, I think it would take an ERA of near 6.00 sometime in June for the Brewers to even consider pulling Suppan from the rotation.

What about 'I/we gave [number greater than 100] percent' -- I loathe that one. Yep. That is my least favorite as well. Either that or, "Crappy Player X, is a veteran, that's why we inserted him into Crucial situation Y"

My biggest vent so far is that my wife found a nice long sleeve Brewer shirt in my size that didn't cost a ton of cash (this is much more rare than you'd expect!). Man, if you and I could ever be sympathetic towards each other, it is this. I don't know if you are a big fat guy like me, or really tall, or shaped like an odd fruit (pear, squash e.g.) -- but I can never find good sports gear. My wife found this big fat guy website, and ordered me a bunch of stuff for Xmas -- except of course they only have the top franchises in each sport available, like Cowboys, Packers, Yankees, etc... thankfully there is a ton of Steelers gear on the big fat guy website... so I have a ton of that. My wife keeps looking at the big fat guy website for Brewer gear -- but it never shows up. I have now worn it 3 times and they lost all 3 games so I can't see myself wearing it again until the end of the season. Perfectly good shirt ruined already. Dude -- how can you determine that your shirt is haunted in only 3 starts, but it will take you 27 starts to realize that Suppan is haunted http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif .... Thankfully though, you have realized the power that your clothing wields in appeasing the baseball deities... I quit wearing pants sometime last year while watching games on TV, when I determined that being pantless helped our bullpen, and burned a spot on my leg from my lap top near my knee, that appears to be permanent. Sarcasm is not a bad thing. The slippery slope with sarcasm, is that if you are not funny or good at it, you are Louie Anderson.

Who knows if Yo can even play the field? His only option may be to try and DH. Exactly. We should just activate him for interleague games. Can Brad Nelson pitch?

Sure, the smaller samples that someone performs in, the greater chance they will look good. Perhaps, but more likely, they are better pitchers -- it is really the simplest answer.

If there was clearly a better alternative, do you really think Attanasio would let his team lose games as some sort of justification for salary? I think that this is an important point -- I think if we had a 22 year old stud in AAA, Suppan would be feeling a lot more heat. I feel the same about Weeks as I do Suppan in a large part -- I don't think Chris Narveson or Chase Wright is going to do much better, much like I don't think there is anybody that could do better than Weeks on our farm. Two starts this season isn't enough, and it's not clear to me that we should lump last season's losing streak into the equation without talking about the season as a whole. Right -- I do think though that Suppan's numbers are overall indicating he is eroding though -- unlike say someone like Wang or Lincecum who are struggling, however probably shouldn't be expected to. I think Suppan deserves at least two more starts. I would even say more than 2, unless they are both abominations like his last one was. I don't think McClung has shown that he can do better -- and I am not sure DiFelice can even start right now if we wanted him to. I'd rather see DeFelice getting stretched out in AAA than BP work at the MLB level. I guess once Hoffman comes back, I'd send DiFelice to AAA, get him in that rotation, and then I'd probably feel a lot better about yanking Suppan.

No, I didn't. That qualifier is important. Then you are mis-applying it. In any given year there are going to be a lot of pitchers that come up from AAA that are going to pitch < 160 IP, but be more effective than someone like Suppan. That's pretty much the biggest contribution that Suppan can bring, durable medicority. Agreed -- however, not as a #3... If Suppan can pitch 160 innings at a ~5.00 ERA he has a ton of value at the end of the rotation. As I showed earlier in this thread -- Historically, you don't have a lot of pitchers getting 160 IP with an ERA substantially over 5.00 -- the only ones you have are overpaid vets (Zito, Suppan) and young pitchers trying to realize their upside (Snell, Kendrick, etc...), otherwise you are going to lose your spot. Essentially a GM has to justify giving the ball to a 5.00+ ERA pitcher -- either because they gave them a stupid contract, or they are waiting for them to break out.

If he doesn't bring value there, then Rivera should certainly be given more opportunities. I'd just be happy to see Kendall get lifted for a PH -- I think his lack of power is very evident, and I think Rivera at least has a reasonable chance at an extra base hit. I don't think that Rivera is a better hitter overall, I just like that he has the ability to hit it out of the IF at some point.

If Suppan is the 42nd best SP in the NL, then he is a #3 starter on an average NL team. That seems perfectly par to me. You missed the qualifier for 160 IP. While it is certainly arguable that Suppan has historically had value -- it certainly isn't at the #3 spot in recent years.

Yo will pitch the entire season, regardless of ERA, with the only limitation being on IP.

Call it what you like, but Suppan pitched better than Lincecum on OD. I think this is a very subjective statement. Suppan gave up more runs, struck out less batters... Of course it's a loaded statement, but so are the cries for Suppan to be stashed in the pen under Marcus Hanel's duffelbag (I exaggerate...) At least, these posters even though they are extreme, are adding to the discussion in the framework requested. They believe that Suppan should have "no leash". Why is it so hard for you and strawboss to either not comment on this thread, or frame your response in the way the original poster asked? If you believe that Suppan should be able to pitch the entire season regardless of ERA -- then just say it without irrelevant, inaccurate and incomplete lectures on sample-size. Point being that the (extreme) reactions by fans are more based on this being the first meaningful baseball played in ~6 mos. than on any actual demonstrable loss of skill by Soup. There is certainly evidence to suggest that Suppan is eroding. It´s probably likely that Suppan has an ERA somewhere in the area of 5 (perhaps a bit lower, perhaps a bit higher) at season end. What do you want to Wager FTJ? I'm not one who gambles money, but I'm certainly up for a wager that involves a creative reward for the winner/punishment for the loser. Lay some ideas on me. Based on the above statement -- I'd suggest a "loser leaves town" wager -- If Soup's ERA is under 5.15 at the end of the season, I will agree to not post here anymore -- likewise if it is over 5.15 you will agree to not post here. This seems fair, as I have given you the "probably likely" range, and with the authoritative manner in which you present yourself in this thread, I would hope you wouldn't have a problem standing behind your words.

Now that Yost is gone and Weeks is playing very well, I guess Suppan is the next on the FTJ hate list. Proceed with the hate. I'm still pretty much hung up on Yost yet. I really haven't moved on. I would take the under on the 5.15 going forward. Wager then? And perhaps you haven't suggested DFAing him, but others have. So those comments of mine wouldn't apply to you, would they. Can't I react to those people? Last I checked, my post was not a response to one of yours. Your post definitely was written from the perspective of the minority addressing the majority. Your arguments seem very strawmanish in nature. Plus I am talking about the beginning of the year (Bush's first few starts), not the mid year happenings (when the Bush/McClung duo was being considered). Bush was sent to AAA on April 27th, not the middle of the year. If those people had their way, we probably don't even make the playoffs last year. Again, Bush was sent to AAA, and put on a ridiculous home/away platoon by Yost/Melvin. And putting Bush on waivers (which is done with nearly every player at some point during the year) and DFAing him is a huge difference. Bush was put on waivers, sent to AAA, then put on an insane platoon. He may as well been DFA'd -- you are right though, it is different -- but the point remains, that the Brewers, weren't exactly patient with Bush as you are trying to claim. The Brewers can be over-patient and under-patient -- just like the fans.

One quality start would go a long way in changing perspectives on the guy. You bet. I am not sure how he reduces his walks, without getting crushed.

Yeah -- I think so.. It's probably about a ~20$ card unless it has been graded as mint.

Was it last year that everyone wanted Bush DFAd because of a few bad starts to start the year? No. It was pretty much Yost and perhaps Melvin. Yost put Bush in some sort of Road/home platoon with McClung -- that I think almost everyone here thought was universally moronic. It´s a good thing the Brewers didn´t do that last season. Actually, Bush was in fact put on waivers to be able to accept his minor league assignment. It´s interesting how the same lesson needs to be learned year after year after year by fans. This is a pretty self-righteous statement for someone who seems to have forgotten Dave Bush was placed on waivers last year. Also, it is not as if the Brewers have never stood behind a good number of players or managers for way too long in their history. I certainly agree that the Brewers should exercise patience a lot better than their fans -- but there have been many times when the majority of this board was probably more correct on players and personnel than the Brewers have been. No one´s happy with Suppan´s first two starts, but two starts is not nearly enough to make a judgment in regards to how he´ll pitch the rest of the year. The vast majority of posters in this thread are not calling for the outright release of Suppan -- and would agree that Suppan needs more starts. It´s probably likely that Suppan has an ERA somewhere in the area of 5 (perhaps a bit lower, perhaps a bit higher) at season end. Care to make a wager? -- Over/Under of 5.15? Soup isn't as bad as his results have been lately. He walked in 3 straight runs... What result did he deserve? Honestly, the guy outpitches the defending CY winner on OD This is a pretty loaded statement and you know it. First, it's not as if one pitcher's performance is dependent on the other. Second, he didn't "outpitch" he was "less crappy". then has a bad start & the Brewers are supposed to flat-out release the guy? Again, very few people actually advocating this.... I know he's not a great pitcher, but I guess the overreaction to this shouldn't surprised me so much. Agreed -- and thanks for not using the "OMG", "!!@@@!!111" and "words ending in z".

If we are making long term decisions already, let´s bench Hardy as well, since he´s clearly played horribly. The problem with this reasoning is that it is nowhere near realistic -- players are not going to get 200 ABs or 10 starts to determine whether they are horrible or not. If Macha needs to wait until May to get a gauge on how effective Suppan is going to be, then Macha should be fired. Macha should have the ability to tell who is struggling with the hopes of getting better and who is struggling and toast.

He haunts you in every manner. Yeah, no kidding. What a dipwad. If it's any consolation, the only reason I didn't have three Ned Yost mini bobbles to giveaway is because my 5-year old daughter snapped the head off one of them. I hope this helps. Was she screaming obscenities at it? (of course relative to a 5 yr. old's ability to do such a thing)

I'm waiting for the Suppan bobble to implement your suggestion. That would be like Romeo's parents waiting until their son's 5 year wedding anniversary to help them with a down payment on a house. At the end of the day, I got Yosted.