2011-07-04 Diamondbacks at Brewers -- [Brewers give away 6-1 leads on consecutive days, lose 8-6]

[theavrock]

I'm as frustrated by the 8th inning Loe arrangement as anyone else, but those that are declaring "season over" need to relax a bit. We came into the day tied for first and it's not even the all star break. After following the Brewers through the 90's I'm enjoying these teams very much, puzzling bullpen decisions and all.

Jesus really? Just because we are in first is no excuse for not maximizing our talent. The decisions Ron and Doug have made have cost us games.

[pebadger]

The brewers simply aren't good enough to play bad baseball and still win. It just gets worse on the road.

 

Get T-Plush on here and maybe there will be some excitement.

[bucksman4]

I'm as frustrated by the 8th inning Loe arrangement as anyone else, but those that are declaring "season over" need to relax a bit. We came into the day tied for first and it's not even the all star break. After following the Brewers through the 90's I'm enjoying these teams very much, puzzling bullpen decisions and all.

Jesus really? Just because we are in first is no excuse for not maximizing our talent. The decisions Ron and Doug have made have cost us games.

 

 

Well said. The season may not be "over" but seeing the same poor managerial decisions being made over and over as well as the poor defensive play, clear holes in the lineup, and atrocious road play can lead one to believe that we can just expect to keep seeing more of the same. More of the same = season over.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I agree with a couple posts that it isn't all on Loe. It's how he's used, or abused. He's been effective when used properly. Against lefties, 2-3 days in a row...that's all on RR. As someone else mentioned, it's symptomatic of RR's management style which is questionable at best.

[brewmann04]

This team is not a championship team to many holes in the lineup and a poor defensive team.We are lucky we are in a Crappy division and in still contention for 1st place.

[jason21nl]

Hart pretty much made up his mind that he was going to swing at that last pitch no matter where it was...what a terrible swing..terrible loss.

[Mr QL]

and Corey swings at one a foot off the plate

 

I seriously hate this team sometimes

 

This team needs a BIG change

[natronek8780]

I'm as frustrated by the 8th inning Loe arrangement as anyone else, but those that are declaring "season over" need to relax a bit. We came into the day tied for first and it's not even the all star break. After following the Brewers through the 90's I'm enjoying these teams very much, puzzling bullpen decisions and all.

Jesus really? Just because we are in first is no excuse for not maximizing our talent. The decisions Ron and Doug have made have cost us games.

I agree. That's exactly the kind of attitude I referenced before when talking about the difference between our media and fans letting them off the hook for terrible decisions and play and those in a larger market making sure that the manager and GM are held 100% accountable for the results.

 

I enjoy the season and games as much as anyone, but that's still no excuse for not taking advantage of your pieces the best that you can.

[owbc]

This is the best Brewers team out of the 16 years that I have been watching the team. I enjoy watching every game, even when they lose or Roenicke does something stupid. They have plenty of flaws, but it is going to be fun to see whether they can win the division anyway. They're struggling right now, but we all knew June was going to be troublesome. I saw what they accomplished in May and I expect them to return to winning ways.

 

Plus, is there any other team in the NL Central capable of running away with this? Nope.

 

Yeah I'm a little frustrated like everyone else, but I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of baseball and the Brewers.

[COBrewerfan]

Every reliever doing their part today. But funny on how all the blame goes to Loe. Some are so short sighted.

When Loe consistently does this you're right he is going to get a lot of blame. Ax has been outstanding for a long time now. You like to poke don't you?

 

When people just pick and choose things to blame a game on, yes. But there are so many other things that happened but don't support the argument.

[topper09er]

Loe coming into today:

 

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as RHP	87	81	18	20	2	0	2	4	21	5.25	.247	.299	.346	.645
vs LHB as RHP	82	72	9	16	4	1	2	8	12	1.50	.222	.300	.389	.689

 

Nothing screams "cannot face lefties under any circumstances"

 

For comparison here are Brain Shouse's career splits:

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as LHP	723	622	102	194	44	4	15	81	55	0.68	.312	.395	.468	.863
vs LHB as LHP	785	719	116	153	36	0	16	37	178	4.81	.213	.262	.330	.592

That is what an OOGY looks like.

[pebadger]

All you have to do is look at Arizona. There isn't anything very impressive about them at all. And they are ahead of Milwaukee in the standings. Being in first place is a function of the division you occupy. The Seattle Seahawks finished in first place, too. The idea is to be playing high-quality baseball. There are too many ways in which the team is not doing so, and in many of them they aren't even close.

[statman0007]

The last two games have been frustrating, but the season is far from over. If we win 5 games in a row people will be declaring the Brewers the division champs. There are ups and downs in a 162 game season.

 

That said, I do agree with those that want RRR to manage the bullpen differently. I don't get the anger at Melvin, I think given our resources he's given RRR as much talent as possible to work with.

[Mr QL]

Ron's press conference should be hilarious

[trwi7]

Loe coming into today:

 

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as RHP	87	81	18	20	2	0	2	4	21	5.25	.247	.299	.346	.645
vs LHB as RHP	82	72	9	16	4	1	2	8	12	1.50	.222	.300	.389	.689

 

Nothing screams "cannot face lefties under any circumstances"

 

For comparison here are Brain Shouse's career splits:

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as LHP	723	622	102	194	44	4	15	81	55	0.68	.312	.395	.468	.863
vs LHB as LHP	785	719	116	153	36	0	16	37	178	4.81	.213	.262	.330	.592

That is what an OOGY looks like.

So you use Loe's splits for ONE year and Shouse's career splits? How does that work?

 

Loe's career vs lefties - .305/.365/.478/.843

 

[brewmann04]

no the brewers will win their 5 in a row and then go back to losing 5 or more 500 team at best come seot.

[theavrock]

Loe coming into today:

 

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as RHP	87	81	18	20	2	0	2	4	21	5.25	.247	.299	.346	.645
vs LHB as RHP	82	72	9	16	4	1	2	8	12	1.50	.222	.300	.389	.689

 

Nothing screams "cannot face lefties under any circumstances"

 

For comparison here are Brain Shouse's career splits:

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as LHP	723	622	102	194	44	4	15	81	55	0.68	.312	.395	.468	.863
vs LHB as LHP	785	719	116	153	36	0	16	37	178	4.81	.213	.262	.330	.592

That is what an OOGY looks like.

So you use Loe's splits for ONE year and Shouse's career splits? How does that work?

 

Loe's career vs lefties - .305/.365/.478/.843

Someone beat me to it. Way to cherry pick stats.

[endaround]

Even this year his terrible K/BB ratio give you a FIP of 4.27 against LHers, terrible for a shutdown reliever.

[natronek8780]

Of course we get about 4 questions of RR's press conference and not 1 question about his use of Loe. I will assume the question gets asked but we won't be able to hear it I guess.

[brewmann04]

I think they are told what questions they can be asked while on tv.

[topper09er]

Loe coming into today:

 

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as RHP	87	81	18	20	2	0	2	4	21	5.25	.247	.299	.346	.645
vs LHB as RHP	82	72	9	16	4	1	2	8	12	1.50	.222	.300	.389	.689

 

Nothing screams "cannot face lefties under any circumstances"

 

For comparison here are Brain Shouse's career splits:

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	SO/BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs RHB as LHP	723	622	102	194	44	4	15	81	55	0.68	.312	.395	.468	.863
vs LHB as LHP	785	719	116	153	36	0	16	37	178	4.81	.213	.262	.330	.592

That is what an OOGY looks like.

So you use Loe's splits for ONE year and Shouse's career splits? How does that work?

 

Loe's career vs lefties - .305/.365/.478/.843

Pick any year you want from Shouse they all look the same.

 

This season Loe has faced lefties 48% of his PAs and he has allowed very similar stats to righties. Loe has a 3.04 xFIP this season and a 3.28 last year. Earlier in his career with Texas his xFIP was nearly a run higher and his strikeout rate was much lower. He has been a different guy with the Brewers, and his splits the past 2 years have been .235/.292/.332/.624 vs RHB and .250/.306/.410/.716 vs LHB for a OPS platoon difference of 92 points. The league average platoon split for righties is .740 vs LHB and .680 vs RHB for a 60 point difference. Loe's OPS against is below both league average and his platoon split is not much higher than normal.

 

I looked this info up because I was expecting to see Loe with terrible numbers vs lefties but they just havent been that drastic as a Brewer so I just pointed out his numbers dont make him look as much like a ROOGY as he has looked the past outings. I also would not just give him the 8th inning like RRR has or anything like that.

[crewcrazy]

Again, it's okay to be frustrated about this game. Leave the condescension and talking down to others off the board.

[umphrey]

http://oi53.tinypic.com/143bk0.jpg

[theavrock]

http://oi53.tinypic.com/143bk0.jpg

+ a million!!!

So clueless

 

[trwi7]

Pick any year you want from Shouse they all look the same.

Really? How about 2007? Shouse vs righties - .295/.358/.337/.695 in 95 at bats. Would you say it was a good idea to use Shouse vs righties in 2007 because he had a good line against them?