8/8/05 - Cardinals (Morris) @ Brewers (Vampire) - 7:05 CST

[NeedMoreFans]

Is Eveland supposed to be a long reliever? If so, why did he only pitch 2 innings? He was dealing, and yes, his spot came up in the order. So? Don't wear out the bullpen too much and bring up situations where our bad relievers (DLR) have to come in.

[RyDogg66]

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You're kidding right? It has been a very bad pitching night to be sure, but take a look at the stats on those guys. Not exactly a AAA roster.

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I dont need to know their stats. Any lineup composed of those 5 plus a pitcher should not be as potent as this one is. Case closed.

[DougJones43]

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I just think there was a far greater possibility of MacGruder putting it in play

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well, you were right. he hit a dribbler that didn't score a run. putting in somebody just because they can get the bat on the ball, instead of a .900+ ops guy who k's sometimes is managing scared.

[lithium75]

At least Turnbow will be fresh for the next two

[MoneyballMan]

I thought this was going to be the most fun of the night, but now I guess I'm going to have to stay up and watch the shuttle land (since I wasted a night doing that last night!).

 

Ok, I have no life......

[ThePurpleStorm]

Well, atleast we all thought there was a good chance we'd lost tonight. Santos vs. Morris wasn't exactly promising. We got our two main guys going the next two days. If we can't win those, then we're in trouble.

[naivin]

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He was dealing, and yes, his spot came up in the order. So?

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Come on. Tie score in a game you pretty much know you will need to score some runs, and you want a relief pitcher to lead off the 6th inning? Surely even the most ardent Ned Yost hater would not support that.

[RyDogg66]

Eckstein: .711 OPS, Career .695

 

John Rodriguez: Has a nice OPS in 71 ABs...was this guy even a prospect? I thought he has been in the minors for like 9 years.

 

So Taguchi: .764 OPS

 

John Mahoney: .492 oPS

 

Abraham Nunez: .641 Career OPS

 

These guys are bums, each and every one of them. Dont tell me that they are great hitters because they arent.

[lithium75]

That game was like spicy Mexican food the next morning

[7rebmun]

The Magruder decision back in the 4th was stupid. He's hitting .208 against righties, presumably mostly if not all from the left side of the plate. His OPS from either side, is absolute poo. He's one of those options I can't wait to be taken away from Ned Yost. There's really no reason for him to hit, ever, in any situation. There is never a "right time" to hit CM.

 

I'll be thankful when our bench improves 10-fold in September just by adding minor leaguers. Games like this are reasons why I wish it was Hart, Prince, or Cruz on the bench. They got their hundreds of ABs in this season, give them a chance to do something useful for the big club for a couple of months.

[ThePurpleStorm]

I just hope we don't pull any of this, "one game under .500, .500, one game under .500" crap.

[Shampoo4U]

I always hear that Baseball is long and boring. Heck even a game with St. Louis can get over faster than a meaningless football game. Football is to be all action packed and quick---- NOT.

[NeedMoreFans]

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Tie score in a game you pretty much know you will need to score some runs, and you want a relief pitcher to lead off the 6th inning

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They also have to stop the other team from scoring runs. Obviously, everyone but Santana couldn't stop the Cards from scoring, so why not take every possible step to keep the Cards at 4 runs for the rest of the game?

 

As was said earlier, our problem was giving up runs...and did PHing for the pitcher help us? Nope (though I'll admit, all is 20/20 in hindsight)

[ThePurpleStorm]

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I'll be thankful when our bench improves 10-fold in September just by adding minor leaguers. Games like this are reasons why I wish it was Hart, Prince, or Cruz on the bench. They got their hundreds of ABs in this season, give them a chance to do something useful for the big club for a couple of months.

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Trust me. Even if we have Fielder or Cruz or Hart on the bench when we need a pinch hitter, Ned will find some reason for pinch hitting Magruder.

[DHarris34Phan]

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Trust me. Even if we have Fielder or Cruz or Hart on the bench when we need a pinch hitter, Ned will find some reason for pinch hitting Magruder.

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And guys like naivin will defend Yost, because it is possible those guys would strikeout.

[7rebmun]

Like I said, I want the CM option taken away.

 

Its not like he's tough to strikeout. He still Ks once every 4 and a half at bats. Just because Branyan is once every 3 at-bats doesn't make Magruder that much better of an option in that situation. He can't even get on base at a decent clip. At least with Russell you've got the chance for a walk or a deep fly ball. Plus there was no way you'd have the Cards taking Morris out in the 4th for a LHP to counter our Russell PH AB.

 

Every way I slice it, I can't condone what happened in the 4th. Absolutely idiotic managing.

[YutakaEnatsu]

All threats of violence and pronouncements of wildcard chances being over aside, here are my thoughts...

 

- Eveland should have been pulled exactly when he was. Yes he was dealing but bringing the PH up is a no-brainer in that situation. Besides, they're limiting his innings, remember this team's #1 job is working toward '06 and beyond, not wearing out the young arms in an attempt to make this the year.

- I normally defend Yost's in-game calls (face it folks, nearly every hitter is going to get out more often than he doesn't and it's easy to second-guess Ned on that) but Magruder was not the right man there. The bases were loaded, and those runs count just as much in the 4th as they do in the 9th. Especially since he's hitting left-handed.

- STL is the best team in baseball. Their W/L record doesn't lie. The injury bug has hit them hard this year and I don't think you can say they have a second team (or a crap team as it was so eloquently put earlier).

- I'm a little worried about Wise. On the other hand, rest seems to have done Santana some good, he looked sharp tonight and was hitting an honest 96-97 on the gun.

 

I like our chances the next two nights. The Crew can still take this series.

[naivin]

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And guys like naivin will defend Yost, because it is possible those guys would strikeout.

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Hey, good for you. Simply because I have the brainpower to realize that every decision a manager makes is not going to work out, as well as the objectivity to understand that a different manager is not going to put this team atop the National League. The way some of you talk, Ned Yost has never made a correct decision. I would love for it to be that simple - replace the Manger and the Brewers are magically good. Simply doesn't work that way.

 

I don't pretend Ned Yost doesn't make mistakes as you say I do (there's that objectivity thing again) - every manager does, but it seems that most of you who constantly bash the guy, refuse to admit he has ever made a correct move.

 

They lost a game tonight because their pitchers couldn't pitch, as much as you'd like to think they lost because of some PH call by the manager. They lost because their pitchers didn't get the job done, not because Ned Yost didn't send Russ up in the 4th.

[7rebmun]

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They lost because their pitchers didn't get the job done, not because Ned Yost didn't send Russ up in the 4th.

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I'd say they weren't given the proper chance to be put into a situation to win the game because of how the PH was handled in the 4th.

 

I'd say that the pitching faltered down the stretch was also to blame.

 

It's not one or the other. So don't come off high and mighty and say it was one thing that Yost couldn't/didn't control but none of the thing he could control.

 

The name of the game is to put your team in the best situations to win the game. Playing the percentages and such.

 

I think Ned is good for the team on the whole, but his utter lack of paying attention to what players give him the best chance to win in each situation is what drives me nuts. Yeah, fine, you aren't a stathead Ned, I get that. I've coached as well, I realize you have to shoot from the hip once in a while and go with a guy you think is hot. But Chris Magruder, in no situation, is the right call. I could sit here and defend that all night with stats, but I don't feel like wasting the rest of my nights sleep on that.

 

So night ya'll . . . see you tomorrow. Try and get a win.

[RyDogg66]

Honestly, PH Magruder there wasnt the worst thing in the world. At least he PH someone. If it were the 6th or 7th I am sure he would have put in Branyan or Hall. But that early and with one out, Magruder wasnt terrible.

 

With that said, I hope we have a better option VERY soon.

[7rebmun]

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With that said, I hope we have a better option VERY soon.

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Amen. I'll drink to that!

[DougJones43]

1. just because we lost for reasons other than the decision in question, doesn't mean that decision was correct.

2. nobody's reason for questioning the move was only the fact that it didn't end up working.

3. why can't people on here disagree with a strategic move without being accused of wanting yost fired? i, for one have said numerous times i think yost is the best man for this job. that doesn't mean i can't strongly disagree with some of the things he does.

[naivin]

This dead horse is being beaten to death, but...

 

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Every way I slice it, I can't condone what happened in the 4th. Absolutely idiotic managing.

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Had he sent Branyan up and he struck out, or didn't get a run in, and the Brewers tallied nothing in that inning, why would you have condoned that? I think where the difference of opinion comes in is which option gave you the better chance to get at least one run. To me, sending a guy up there who was 0-11 with 8 K's as a PH, just doesn't give you a very good chance. Yes, he could have hit a fly ball, or even gotten a hit, but history indicates that a K was a far more likely outcome. That's all I'm saying. I just have a problem with people using hindsight and the fact that it didn't work as some sort of proof that it was the wrong decision. There is obviously no way to know what Branyan would have done, but some want to claim that because MacGruder didn't come through, that Branyan, with his 0-11, 8K record as a pinch hitter was automatically the better option.

[NeedMoreFans]

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To me, sending a guy up there who was 0-11 with 8 K's as a PH, just doesn't give you a very good chance.

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So start Branyan and save Helms for a PH. He's one of the best in the league at pinch hitting...

[DHarris34Phan]

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Hey, good for you. Simply because I have the brainpower to realize that every decision a manager makes is not going to work out, as well as the objectivity to understand that a different manager is not going to put this team atop the National League.

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So basically you are saying that you are smarter than us and therefore you are right.

 

I agree that every managerial decision won't work out, but I (and hopefully all fans) want the best option to be used at all times. In this situation, Chris Magruder was not the best option. I would venture to say that even Chad Moeller is a comparable option than Chris Magruder. Batting Bill Hall or Russell Branyan in that situation doesn't effect the rest of the game as much as you would like us to believe. Sure, we lose a substitution option later in the game, but I would much rather try to open a game up.

 

Branyan or Hall could have done the same thing as Magruder did, but I would rather go down fighting with my best weapons rather then going down with our 3rd best option.