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  • 3 Reasons Why Brewers Should Go Slow With Top Prospect Jackson Chourio


    Harold Hutchison

    Jackson Chourio’s meteoric rise to playing a full season with the Brewers' Double-A affiliate in Biloxi at the age of 19 is profoundly impressive. However, there are some reasons for the Crew to consider taking their foot off the gas with Chourio.

    Image courtesy of © Curt Hogg / Milwaukee Journal Sentinel / USA TODAY NETWORK

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    One of the reasons is the current state of the Brewers outfield for the short and medium term, but two are cautionary tales from recent Brewers history. Let’s take a look at those reasons why going slow with Jackson Chourio might be the best thing for the Brewers–and for Chourio himself.

    The Current State Of The Brewers Outfield

    The Brewers have a lot of outfield depth in the majors and the minors, as we have discussed when reviewing left field, center field, and right field in the Brewers system. It is quite likely that the Opening Day 2024 outfield for the Brewers could be Sal Frelick in left, Garrett Mitchell in center, and Joey Wiemer in right, with Christian Yelich moving to either first base or designated hitter, while Tyrone Taylor and Blake Perkins compete for the fourth outfielder spot. With the exception of Yelich, all are going to be quite cheap, too.

    This surfeit of outfield depth buys something for Chourio: Time. Time to develop and refine his game, particularly in drawing walks and in pitch selection. In Biloxi, Chourio struggled with the tackier ball used in the Southern League earlier this season. It might be best to have him develop those skills more in Nashville next year. The Brewers don’t need to put him on the 40-man until after the 2024 season, and they will have three option years.

    It also gives the Brewers time to evaluate Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Perkins, and Taylor, so they can figure out how best to restructure the outfield when Chourio is ready, some time in 2025. So why not take advantage of the time to have Chourio’s skills fully honed and get a sense of to which outfielders the Brewers should commit for the long haul? It will be better for him and better for the Brewers. After all, there are some cautionary tales.

    When Jimmy Nelson Got Hammered

    In 2017, Jimmy Nelson injured his shoulder while running the bases. The injury not only took him out of the rest of the 2017 season, he missed all of 2018 as well, as the recovery took longer than expected. In 2019, he was returning from that long layoff. Nelson had an option left, and he could have been sent to Triple-A San Antonio to get back into the groove as a pitcher; think of it as an indefinite rehabilitation assignment.

    Instead, the Brewers brought him up with the team for Opening Day. To say it went poorly is an understatement. He ended up going up and down in the 2019 season, finishing with an 0-2 record and a 6.95 ERA with the Brewers, while doing better in San Antonio and Appleton (combined 4.79 ERA).

    Nelson was ultimately non-tendered after the 2019 season, and went to the Dodgers as a free agent, where he ended up being a solid reliever until he had to have Tommy John surgery. Would the pandemic and the Tommy John have still messed things up? Who can say? But the minor leagues are there for players to develop–and to rehabilitate–and the Brewers failed Nelson and themselves by failing to use the minors for that purpose.

    Chourio clearly has room to develop, based on his struggles early in the season, and the minors are the proper place for him to do that.

    Keston Hiura Never Fully Developed OBP Skills

    Keston Hiura has been hitting well in Nashville, but four years ago, he was a hot hitting prospect who many thought would be dominating in Milwaukee for a long time. His 2019 season, coming about two years after he was a first-round draft pick, was seen as a sign that he would fulfill the hopes that came with that status. In 2020, though, he led the NL in strikeouts–getting rung up 85 times in 59 games. Hiura's 2021 was even worse, and a rebound in 2022 wasn’t enough to keep the Brewers from acquiring Jesse Winker and Luke Voit, and ultimately outrighting Hiura to Nashville.

    But there were warning signs for Hiura. Perhaps the biggest: Hiura’s walk rate was never great (72 walks in 865 at-bats from 2017 to 2019). He also struck out 204 times during his minor-league career, prior to his MLB debut. That’s 2.83 whiffs for every walk.

    Aside from the DSL, Chourio’s numbers in his minor-league career are quite similar. He’s drawn 56 walks in 735 at-bats, while striking out 190 times as of July 25. That comes to 3.39 strikeouts per walk.

    Summary

    In 2019, the Brewers desperately needed help at second base. Travis Shaw was in a slump, so Mike Moustakas had to move back to third. Hernan Perez and Cory Spangenberg were each posting an OPS+ of 64. Hiura came up and helped the Brewers overcome Yelich’s season-ending knee injury to reach the wild-card game, but there was a cost to him and to the Brewers, down the road.

    That condition does not apply in 2023, and probably won’t in 2024. The Brewers have plenty of outfield depth, and even those who struggle at the plate (like Joey Wiemer) are contributing with outstanding defense. There is time for Chourio to hone his skills in Nashville in 2024 and even 2025. There’s no need to rush him to American Family Field.

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    Last 102 PA: 8.8% BB-rate, 8.8% K-rate, 1.00 BB/K

    Last 202 PA: 8.4% BB-rate, 14.9% K-rate, 0.57 BB/K 

    Last 251 PA: 8.4% BB-rate, 16.7 % K-rate, 0.50 BB/K

    Last 301 PA: 8.0% BB-rate, 17.9% K-rate, 0.44 BB/K

    Maybe you should pay attention to what he's actually doing instead of focusing on his entire career including the DSL. Sure the BB-rate isn't good, but he is continually cutting down the K-rate over the course of the season to the point where he's striking out under 10% over the last 100 PA. 

     

     

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    Let's be thankful the OP isn't writing: "Article: The Case for Playing Ryan Braun at 3B." 

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    • WHOA SOLVDD 1
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    Going to ignore the article and just post my thoughts here.  Say the Brewers were to handle Chourio this year the same way that they did last year.  That would mean he is coming up on another aggressive promotion to AAA in the near future.  Say all goes well with that promotion and he is holding his own or flourishing with Nashville.  If the organization was to follow last year’s playbook, he would be rewarded with a short cup of coffee in the majors at the end of the regular season.  I think that’s what many fans want and what some expect at this point.  Personally, while I would love to see him in the majors as a teenager for the pure accomplishment that is in itself, that is not what I envision or want, quite frankly.  If I were Matt Arnold, Tom Flanagan, and co, I would like to see Chourio get nearly a full-season in AAA.  This isn’t because I think it’s out of the realm of possibility that he is that talented enough to make it to Milwaukee by the end of the year or because I think they need to hold him back.  Rather, I would like to see him promoted to AAA in the next few weeks, play out the season there, and come back to start 2024.  That way he isn’t being overwhelmed by the admittedly crazy levels of “hype” surrounding him at the moment, he grows into his body and abilities even more (crazy right?), and comes up (hopefully) as an impact, everyday player when the team is playing (hopefully) meaningful games in mid-Summer rather than trying to fit him in at bats in mid or late September with Yelich, Wiemer, Frelick, Perkins, Taylor, Mitchell (possibly), and whatever other impact players they are going to acquire, fingers crossed.  Chourio seems to thrive with mid season promotions and better competition so, barring a insanely huge spring performance, let him get a third and final opening day in the minors in 2024 and you have yourself an impact bat to add to the lineup when the trade deadline rolls around next summer when he’s undoubtedly ready as a still baby-faced 20-year-old instead of trading from the outstanding depth in the organization for a player that likely isn’t as talented as Chourio.  Or just keep him in AAA for three of four years, right @clancyphile?

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    3 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

    Speechless again. Just absolutely stupid.

    Provide some constructive criticism instead of posts like this.

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    6 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

    Provide some constructive criticism instead of posts like this.

    Does "someone please edit clancy's articles for illogical non-sequiturs and tenuous-at-best connections" count as constructive criticism?

    Jimmy Nelson getting a fluke injury on the bases has nothing to do with Jackson Chourio, Hiura's development path was on a completely different track than Jackson's as a twenty year old college draftee vs a teenage international signee.

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    1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

    Does "someone please edit clancy's articles for illogical non-sequiturs and tenuous-at-best connections" count as constructive criticism?

    Jimmy Nelson getting a fluke injury on the bases has nothing to do with Jackson Chourio, Hiura's development path was on a completely different track than Jackson's as a twenty year old college draftee vs a teenage international signee.

    Why is this site letting an “author” post not one but two “articles” calling Noah Campbell a potential two-way player when he never pitched in high school or college? He’s pitched 4 innings in his entire career. In the 9th inning of 18-9, 21-3, 17-5 losses and then in the 9th inning of a gimmick game where they let Campbell play an inning at every single position during the game (which btw is also the only game he’s ever caught yet the author said Campbell is an emergency catcher). He’s not a potential pitcher option. He’s not an emergency catcher.
     

    Why is stuff like that being allowed to be posted in incredibly opinionated hyperbolic articles without shreds of actual data or analysis? If these articles were one-offs it would be a different story but this author is allowed to post 5+ articles a week?

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    I wouldn’t mind if Chourio stays in AA to finish the year. If the goal is to refine his approach to make him more selective, I would rather have him do it in AA to get the toughest part done in a league where he has proven he can hit.

    Then start him at AAA next year and promote him when he is ready. Don’t rush things but don’t fall into the “But he could be even MORE ready …” trap either.

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    clancyphile
  • Brewer Fanatic Contributor
  • Posted

    1 hour ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

    I wouldn’t mind if Chourio stays in AA to finish the year. If the goal is to refine his approach to make him more selective, I would rather have him do it in AA to get the toughest part done in a league where he has proven he can hit.

    Then start him at AAA next year and promote him when he is ready. Don’t rush things but don’t fall into the “But he could be even MORE ready …” trap either.

    My thinking is Opening Day 2025 at the earliest. Get a full year of Wiemer, and see if he can start, or is better as the 4th OF behind Frelick/Mitchell/Chourio. Or maybe it's a Wiemer/Mitchell platoon.

    Lots of possibilities... and we ain't even thinking about Yophery Rodriguez, who looks to be superb, as well.

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    AAA to start 2024 and if he excels a call up to MLB late 2024 season. It’s why he was pushed in the first place. He’s on the track now. Preaching patience with his development doesn’t make sense now when he is at AA at 19.

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    He should be called up to AAA within 10 more days.  Something clearly clicked for him in last 2 weeks driving his OPS up over 100pts. Taking more walks then strikeouts while having more multiple hit games than 0 or 1 hit games. He's nearing the amount of PAs total given to him combined for A & A+ ball for time at AA. Black is deserving of a callup to AAA and I don't recommend calling him up but keeping Chourio at AA. Quero seems to be injured recently. Perfect timing to get these 2 called up while holding Quero back understandably til Quero returns and looks okay. 

    Chourio lives up to the hype, he needs to actually get here if this 2 week spell continues straight through the call up to AAA. Then he can be used in this year's September and post season roster if he's holding his own better than Taylor's lack of talent.

    Black too. He's going to be a player the team gives an extension to. You don't worry about options or when you manipulate service time.

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    Reduces the credibility of this website imo. Imagine a new visitor reading this nearly daily absurdity and thinking this is a writer for the site?

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    19 hours ago, ARobsBrewCrew said:

    Going to ignore the article and just post my thoughts here.  Say the Brewers were to handle Chourio this year the same way that they did last year.  That would mean he is coming up on another aggressive promotion to AAA in the near future.  Say all goes well with that promotion and he is holding his own or flourishing with Nashville.  If the organization was to follow last year’s playbook, he would be rewarded with a short cup of coffee in the majors at the end of the regular season.  I think that’s what many fans want and what some expect at this point.  Personally, while I would love to see him in the majors as a teenager for the pure accomplishment that is in itself, that is not what I envision or want, quite frankly.  If I were Matt Arnold, Tom Flanagan, and co, I would like to see Chourio get nearly a full-season in AAA.  This isn’t because I think it’s out of the realm of possibility that he is that talented enough to make it to Milwaukee by the end of the year or because I think they need to hold him back.  Rather, I would like to see him promoted to AAA in the next few weeks, play out the season there, and come back to start 2024.  That way he isn’t being overwhelmed by the admittedly crazy levels of “hype” surrounding him at the moment, he grows into his body and abilities even more (crazy right?), and comes up (hopefully) as an impact, everyday player when the team is playing (hopefully) meaningful games in mid-Summer rather than trying to fit him in at bats in mid or late September with Yelich, Wiemer, Frelick, Perkins, Taylor, Mitchell (possibly), and whatever other impact players they are going to acquire, fingers crossed.  Chourio seems to thrive with mid season promotions and better competition so, barring a insanely huge spring performance, let him get a third and final opening day in the minors in 2024 and you have yourself an impact bat to add to the lineup when the trade deadline rolls around next summer when he’s undoubtedly ready as a still baby-faced 20-year-old instead of trading from the outstanding depth in the organization for a player that likely isn’t as talented as Chourio.  Or just keep him in AAA for three of four years, right @clancyphile?

    I have similar view. I prefer him spending year 20 mostly at AAA in 24' and this year am okay with end of season bump to get his feet wet there. I Always believe a player should force your hand for a promotion. Has nothing do with wanting to take it slow with a player really, you want to see a level of torrid mastery. If he comes out in AAA and is hitting .300 with OPS .900 in June/July where it looks easy for him. His K's and swinging strikes look solid. He is giving great ABs. No reason to keep him in AAA. If he is out hitting .250 with .750 ops, don't you dare pull him up. He is too good of a bat to put up those numbers and means he is still adjusting. Let him click and cook a bit. 

     

    Overall, he has to force their hands to reach majors next season outside of September Call-Ups. I'm 100% fine with him staying down all of next year if he is not dominating. I'm confident at some point next year he will do so but if not, September call up & Opening Day 25' CF.

     

    As for the article...... Jimmy Nelson was an established 30 year old MLB pitcher who was our Ace. After injury, Brewers build him up in AAA until June, called him up, he struggled, when back to AAA until September call ups and struggled. Not sure what your real plan was, not give your 30 year old Ace an opportunity to try in majors again? 

    Keston never has a K problem at all until AAA in 19'. Outside of the K's he was an absolute monster in AAA and for the Brewers. Hard to say they rushed him when he produced .303/.368/.570 slash, 19 HRs, 2.4 WAR, 139 wRC+. Even with the K's, 30 of 30 teams will gladly live with the 30% K to get that type of production. He never had a K problem until AAA in 19'. He was a pro hitter profile with results as such. He simply had a regression where something with the swing fell off with contact ability. Has nothing to do with being rushed. 

     

    Honestly, if we "rush" Chourio and he slashes .300/.370/.550 with 20 HRs, 2+ WAR (with his d prob higher) as a rookie. I'd be pretty darn happy. 

     

    Also If he gets injured at 28 and misses a whole season at 29. I will not intentionally hold him back at 30 in minor leagues for an entire season

     

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    On 7/28/2023 at 1:57 PM, RedStickBrew said:

    I think Jackson Chourio is truly a generational talent in the Brewers system and I can't think of one good reason to hold him back if he continues on his current trajectory.

    You act like setting records for the Nashville sounds isn't a good reason! 

     

    I honestly feel like Clancy throws things out there he hasn't completely thought through and then he needs to double down. How...Jimmy Nelson's shoulder injury plays into this is baffling. 

    Keston Hiura is not Jackson Chourio. I...I'm just speechless. 

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    21 hours ago, clancyphile said:

    My thinking is Opening Day 2025 at the earliest. Get a full year of Wiemer, and see if he can start, or is better as the 4th OF behind Frelick/Mitchell/Chourio. Or maybe it's a Wiemer/Mitchell platoon.

    Lots of possibilities... and we ain't even thinking about Yophery Rodriguez, who looks to be superb, as well.

    I'm just curious why you're stuck on him spending the whole season in AAA next year irrespective of what he actually does?

    How about this for a novel idea. We let him finish the year in AA, maybe promote him to AAA at the end of the year if they're in the playoffs or whatever. 

    Start him in AAA next year and...see how he does. If he does as expected, and he's raking...and I think he will be, you promote him, try to extend him as you do with phenoms of his caliber. I don't understand why we'd structure this in such a contrived manner. If he's NOT hitting, then you DON'T promote him. It's pretty cut and dry. 

     

    But this is just creating a problem where none exists. You just come out of it looking TERRIBLE if you're holding back the #1 or #2 prospect in all of baseball because...Jimmy Nelson? 

     

    Prince, Weeks, Braun...so many players spend a year in AA, then ~2 months in AAA and get called up. How's that not the ideal outcome?

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    12 hours ago, Jenkins5 said:

    I have similar view. I prefer him spending year 20 mostly at AAA in 24' and this year am okay with end of season bump to get his feet wet there. I Always believe a player should force your hand for a promotion. Has nothing do with wanting to take it slow with a player really, you want to see a level of torrid mastery. If he comes out in AAA and is hitting .300 with OPS .900 in June/July where it looks easy for him. His K's and swinging strikes look solid. He is giving great ABs. No reason to keep him in AAA. If he is out hitting .250 with .750 ops, don't you dare pull him up. He is too good of a bat to put up those numbers and means he is still adjusting. Let him click and cook a bit. 

     

    Overall, he has to force their hands to reach majors next season outside of September Call-Ups. I'm 100% fine with him staying down all of next year if he is not dominating. I'm confident at some point next year he will do so but if not, September call up & Opening Day 25' CF.

     

    As for the article...... Jimmy Nelson was an established 30 year old MLB pitcher who was our Ace. After injury, Brewers build him up in AAA until June, called him up, he struggled, when back to AAA until September call ups and struggled. Not sure what your real plan was, not give your 30 year old Ace an opportunity to try in majors again? 

    Keston never has a K problem at all until AAA in 19'. Outside of the K's he was an absolute monster in AAA and for the Brewers. Hard to say they rushed him when he produced .303/.368/.570 slash, 19 HRs, 2.4 WAR, 139 wRC+. Even with the K's, 30 of 30 teams will gladly live with the 30% K to get that type of production. He never had a K problem until AAA in 19'. He was a pro hitter profile with results as such. He simply had a regression where something with the swing fell off with contact ability. Has nothing to do with being rushed. 

     

    Honestly, if we "rush" Chourio and he slashes .300/.370/.550 with 20 HRs, 2+ WAR (with his d prob higher) as a rookie. I'd be pretty darn happy. 

     

    Also If he gets injured at 28 and misses a whole season at 29. I will not intentionally hold him back at 30 in minor leagues for an entire season

     

    Chourio's last 30 games is .315/385/543 in AA

    Last 10 is 395/480/698

    What more does he need to do at AA? 

    6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

    I'm just curious why you're stuck on him spending the whole season in AAA next year irrespective of what he actually does?

    How about this for a novel idea. We let him finish the year in AA, maybe promote him to AAA at the end of the year if they're in the playoffs or whatever. 

    Start him in AAA next year and...see how he does. If he does as expected, and he's raking...and I think he will be, you promote him, try to extend him as you do with phenoms of his caliber. I don't understand why we'd structure this in such a contrived manner. If he's NOT hitting, then you DON'T promote him. It's pretty cut and dry. 

     

    But this is just creating a problem where none exists. You just come out of it looking TERRIBLE if you're holding back the #1 or #2 prospect in all of baseball because...Jimmy Nelson? 

     

    Prince, Weeks, Braun...so many players spend a year in AA, then ~2 months in AAA and get called up. How's that not the ideal outcome?

    Same ? Above. What more should he do at AA after that last 30 games/10games to remain through rest of season at AA?

    Tonight's game he scored from 3rd on a fly out 10-20feet outside the infield caught the fielder off guard about to throw ball in to pitcher.

    He's approaching his career triple slash line .287/349/497 now at .282/340/475 for the season in AA.

    Btw Braun's #s for 2006 is 59 games each at A and AA racking up approx 260PAs at each level. AA slash line was 274/346/438.  Chourio is approaching 400PAs for the season at AA holding a better AA OPS in a longer sample than Braun at 3years younger age.

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    4 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

    Chourio's last 30 games is .315/385/543 in AA

    Last 10 is 395/480/698

    What more does he need to do at AA? 

    Same ? Above. What more should he do at AA after that last 30 games/10games to remain through rest of season at AA?

    Tonight's game he scored from 3rd on a fly out 10-20feet outside the infield caught the fielder off guard about to throw ball in to pitcher.

    He's approaching his career triple slash line .287/349/497 now at .282/340/475 for the season in AA.

    Btw Braun's #s for 2006 is 59 games each at A and AA racking up approx 260PAs at each level. AA slash line was 274/346/438.  Chourio is approaching 400PAs for the season at AA holding a better AA OPS in a longer sample than Braun at 3years younger age.

    I'm find with moving him to AAA, I just don't think THAT is necessary. Let him put up silly numbers, keep him in a place he's comfortable and...just unleash him on the Southern League. I'm not sure when the AA and AAA playoffs are, but if Nashville makes the post-season, move him up then, but I honestly don't think it matters. I think it's good for him to just...crush AA pitching for a while. Especially if we're all thinking sometime around next June(or earlier if they actually can pull off the big extension right away).


    I just don't think you're pushed more from AA to AAA. The big jumps are AA and AAA. 


    I don't really have much conviction in that opinion however. I'll trust they do what's best for him...but again, if that means he's not up until 2026, then something has gone VERY wrong beyond just a higher that ideal chase rate. 

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    If you don't continue to challenge an elite talent, you run the risk of them not learning how to adjust later on down the road.  Great players in general break through early and don't look back.  Chourio's answered every challenge put in front of him so far.  He can handle the next.

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    1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

    In 2003 a Venezuelan phenom was brought up late in the season and helped the Marlins win a World Series... just sayin'.

    That said player just went back "home" for final time of his career and it was amazing to see! 

     

    The aspect that is most important to me that I see with Chourio's development this season is he has made great strides with his contact throughout the season and that is area he has needed to show most growth. While it has took him to July to really get the bat zoned in and punishing (tacky ball effect maybe) he has continued to improve and cut out his strikeouts. That gives me the biggest sign that shows he could be promoted and is ready. Quero gives me hope that Chourio can still increase his BB% over that 10% benchmark. Quero was knocked on that like Chourio until June (5.3% April- May) when he started walking a bunch (17.8% since). Both were plus 10% in first year pro and very young at each step.

    April 5.3% bb and 23.4% k 

    May  7.9% bb & 25.7% k 

    June  8.4% bb & 16.8% k 

    July  7.9% bb & 10.1% k

     

    I will stand by my stance that Chourio should move up at the pace of his bat. Next year in AAA, he has to force their hand though dominant play. I don't care if it takes until mid to late May, All-Star Break, post trade deadline, or September call-ups. He needs to show dominant play. 

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    1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

    In 2003 a Venezuelan phenom was brought up late in the season and helped the Marlins win a World Series... just sayin'.

    Fun to think about it and I’m a huge Miggy fan, always have been, but the 2023 brewers are a few notches below even the 2003 Wild Card Marlins no matter who they bring in at the deadline.  I wish it weren’t the case, but this offense, even with the talent on the pitching staff, isn’t capable of making it past the first round of the playoffs.

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    21 minutes ago, ARobsBrewCrew said:

    Fun to think about it and I’m a huge Miggy fan, always have been, but the 2023 brewers are a few notches below even the 2003 Wild Card Marlins no matter who they bring in at the deadline.  I wish it weren’t the case, but this offense, even with the talent on the pitching staff, isn’t capable of making it past the first round of the playoffs.

    Could still catch the Dodgers for that #2 seed (3 games back currently) and skip the first round completely.

    Or get the Reds in the first round, who we’ve owned this year.

    No doubt this team is a longshot to do much of anything in the playoffs, but it’s all just so random that it’s hard for me to say anyone is incapable of anything.

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