Gang, I'm going to respond to your points and then let it go since I seem to be pushing this discussion in a negative and non-productive direction. I apologize if I appear smug in my postings. Ok, fair enough. No need to just leave a good discussion, though http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Stats are imperfect as is pure observation. I don't believe stats such as UZR can capture much of what happens in a game. Granted my example was subjective but I was sitting with my son directly in behind home plate and thought with a dive he could have potentially gotten a glove on it. The paid employees charting pitches behind me thought the same thing and they likely see many more games than we ever will. Another example is Rickie Weeks issues with turning the DP last year. It's an area that stats don't generally capture. I know what you mean. But for Hall there's a lot of data that backs up that he's a solid fielder, and for the most part when you watch him you can see why. Both he & Weeks seem to be cut from the cloth of 'gets to a lot of balls, but isn't a natural fielder', as opposed to someone like Branyan who looks to excercise good fundamentals but doesn't have the range. Also, I think it's totally fair to criticize a player if effort is in question, and the example you provided of Hall just happened to be in a ST game. We could probably come up with some 'real game' examples if we thought long enough on Hall. It is kind of odd to see, though, when a guy just isn't as bad an option as he may appear. Fittingly, this discussion is in a Cameron thread, since many people this offseason have felt that Cam is a guy we could 'do better than', but then when compared across the league you see it's actually kinda tough to improve on Mike. Even with his technical shortcomings, Hall appears able to play at least at a competent level defensively.