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Gamel's problems from what posters have said and I saw of him last year seemed to be mostly his throwing. I think he would easily be able to field at 1B. I would leave him at 3B though since he will be around longer than McGehee and it isn't like McGehee is a good or even average defender.

I am down on Escobar this year because he has not even met my very low expectations. I only expected him to be an average defender and with a .320 OBP with a mid .600's OPS. He might get there by the end of the year but as of right now, he is disappointing.

It just seems that every time luck is brought up on this site that it is to say that things aren't really that bad, when in fact maybe they are. Maybe the Brewers are actually fortunate to have the wins they do. That is because people generally don't post as much when good luck happens or players are playing really well.

We played well below our talent level this year. What we are doing this year was almost worst case scenario. We have similar talent to the Reds and what they are doing is what our best case scenario was. We were right around 81 win talent. We can easily be competitive next year with a few trades but 2012 is a more realistic goal when Lawrie and some of our minor league pitchers are expected to contribute. Just swaping out Hoffman as the closer would have put us at 4 more wins and maybe 5. That would be 42-42 instead of 37-47. Right around .500 where we expected to be. We really are not that farr off of being a competitive team.

By the way, where is Benny on that list?....yeah I know. Burned again. Last time I posted this list I didn't take out the guys who got extensions. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sheets get a string of 1-2 year deals until he retires.

How do Gamel's career numbers at AAA show him to be inconsistent? He struggled a little in 2008 when moved up but how many players don't when moving up at the end of the year. .367/.473/.839 looks pretty similar to .371/.436/.808 to me.

Inglett wouldn't be a bad stopgap for half to a full season until Lawrie is ready. I will hate to see Weeks go when he does and I would like to see an extension for him explored(since it would probably take less than $8M a year to do it) but I think if he isn't willing to sign an extension we should part ways this offseason. The reason I want Weeks extended is because I think he would be cheaper than Fielder and Hart to keep around and I would like to see us keep at least one of the 3 so we don't have to rely on going to deep into our farm guys. The talent really starts to drop off and get sketchy after Gamel, Lawrie and Cain.(my opinion and I can probably be convinced otherwise) I am also not really high on McGehee keeping up his hitting and won't be until a good way into next season. I think Gomez will need to be replaced as well. Weeks, Fielder, Hart Gomez is quite a few players to replace from within but maybe we get a position guy back in trade somewhere, I think we would almost have to. I absolutely want nothing to do with the post '10 FA pitchers. I don't care how much money we have. A waste of money is a waste of money. The only intriguing name is De La Rosa and he is already 29. Starting Pitchers Bronson Arroyo CIN ($11M club option) Jeremy Bonderman DET David Bush MIL(yeah right) Daniel Cabrera CWS Jorge De La Rosa COL Jeff Francis COL ($7M club option) Jon Garland SD ($6.75M mutual option) Aaron Harang CIN ($12.75M option) Cliff Lee SEA Ted Lilly CHC Braden Looper MIL Noah Lowry SF Kevin Millwood BAL Jamie Moyer PHI Vicente Padilla LAD Nate Robertson FLA Ian Snell SEA ('11 $6.75M club option, '12 $9.25M club option) Jeff Suppan STL Javier Vazquez NYYBrandon Webb ARI Jake Westbrook CLE Dontrelle Willis ARZ Chris Young SD ($8.5M club option)

I don't get the wrath with Escobar in a way. I think the anger is more the fact that we were misled to believe Escobar was a really good defender and he is, right now well below average. I apologize for not remembering the numbers exactly...but they weren't a myth. They actually happened... Sure they happened. All teams are inconsistent on offense. There is a pretty large gap in runs scored in wins and runs score in losses. Sounds pretty logical to me. Sounds like something that would again be true for most teams. Again, I apologize for not having the exact number, but I think it was 4 or 5 runs a game in wins and losses...I don't get what that would have to do with pitching or defense. That is just an inconsistent offense IMO. If I had to guess, I would say that most teams win quite a bit when they score 5 or more runs. If you have a good pitching staff, you can win while scoring fewer runs. It is all about run differential. Run distribution matters to some extent but run differential is more important since it is easier to control.

I think it can be argued pretty strongly either way. I will just say that Gomez and Edmonds are both kind of sucking with the bat right now. I guess Edmonds should get more of the starts since he is the big half of the platoon.

Thatcher best case scenario is redundant with Stetter. Gillispie, backup outfielders are there to find every year. Our backup outfielders are not a weakness on our team.

But if you want to use WAR, Hardy is at 0.7 vs. Escobar at 0.3, hardly worth noting a difference. That is a huge difference because you also have to take games played into consideration when looking at WAR. Escobar has played twice as many games. Hardy over the same number of games would be worth a win more than Escobar. Call out WAR and defensive metrics all you like, they are still miles better than individual observations of most fans. Other than the injury which you just can't predict, Hardy is still currently the better player. Next year and the year after, Escobar could very well be the better player. That has always been my argument. At what point is Escobar the better player. In 2009 Hardy had a bad year but going into 2009 I think most people would have preferred Hardy at SS. Escobar had only one good hitting year at that point and that was at AA. My opinion has always been that Escobar wasn't ready and we had already had a good SS. Since Escobar wasn't called up till late in 2009, we will have control of him until the end of the 2015 season when he should be a pretty good player.

The way it typically gets used, sellers are making trades mainly with the year(s) after the current year in mind and buyers are trying to make the playoffs this year often giving up future talent. That is generally how it gets used. The rest is semantics.

There are other threads that go into way more depth although they are about a week old when things looked better. To be honest is is a very well tread subject bleeding into multiple threads.

Mike Maddux I believe.

Are you basing this on anything other than last season?Graffanino, Linebrink, Durham (somewhat of a starter), Ray King, David Weathers, Lopez. I think it was a fair comment. Different circumstances for some of those trades.(Durham) Some we didn't really give up anything for.(Graffanino, Linebrink, Weathers, Lopez, King) I know who we gave up for Graffanino but he didn't do anything for more than a year after that trade.

I don't like the Luis Cruz idea at all. Luis Cruz is having a carer minor league year with a .325/.435/.761 line in AAA at the age of 26 and a career AAA line of .297/.408/.704.(that's OBP/SLG/OPS) When he was signed and even up until about a month ago, he was the last guy on the 40-man roster. This call him up idea is quite the change over 3 months. If we could gain a year of service time by calling up Cruz I might be in favor of it since Escobar doesn't have a good year at the MLB level under his belt.(unlike Hardy a little over a year ago) He might as well stay at the MLB level. His minor league numbers almost make Gomez look good.

This is why we use stats to quantify things. Hardy had an above average year on defense as a rookie. Hardy had a 1.7 WAR in 124 games as a rookie. Escobar is at 0.3 in 76 games. Hardy this year, even though he was hitting poorly, is at least canceling out his crappy offense with his glove. Escobar isn't.

This is the best and worst thing to happen to the show. Michael's antics just hold it back, but without the big name I'm not sure they'll last long. I'd love to see them try though. Do you really think the big name is drawing fans in? I honestly have not watched the show much over the last year. I think they have been spinning their wheels for quite a while.

I think he just provided an emotional outlet for Brewer fans who were frustrated with the perennially bad Brewer teams of the 90's. And based on a couple of posts in this thread, it appears that a few are still bitter. I reserve most of that dislike for Wes Helms.

I am not so sure he won't use an option. I believe under the rules he is considered to be on an optional assignment. At least that is how I would read it. As long as he is on the 40-man roster for 20 or more days he will use an option. I doesn't say the have to be sent down, although that is typically what happens. I don't know of any guys being added to the 40-man in the middle of the year except for guys who sign MLB contracts out of the draft but they wouldn't acquire 5 years of service time so they would have a 4th option year.

I don't remember that being too bad, except for when he was in one of his patented 2 week 'funks'. or whenever they threw an off speed pitch down and in.

Gamel came up and started a lot. He got regular playing time. No, he didn't. The fact that you even posted that leads me to believe you have not read this thread very thoroughly.

Yes, this is extremely scary. Its really shortsighted to keep Yo active when a DL stint would only cost him a few days in the best case scenario. I'll be surprised if Yo makes another start in July. Yeah, a DL stint would now cost him 1 start since he's being skipped in his next one. No reason not to do it. You protect your future, don't risk anything with Yovani.I don't know. We are still in the thick of a playoff race or at least the moves the team is making would lead you to believe that.

The difference is that some of the stuff posted over there would get you kicked off of this site.

Weeks is not really that special as a player, I'm afraid to say, and doesn't deserve some big long term contract. 2B, even the best ones, don't get paid all that much. Only 2 are getting over $8M per year. 4 years at $32M wouldn't be all that much to lock up avergae production at a middle infield spot. Of course we could also buy position players year to year as well.