Harold Hutchison

Which is why my beef is that the deal is only for one year.

Yeah, really would cost a Max McDowell or Freitas to get him.

My biggest beef is that this was just a one-year deal. I'd have gone two years with a club option, maybe even three.

How about this to get Haniger? https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-18554/ Brewers get: OF Haniger 3B Seager LHP Sheffield RHP Dunn Mariners get: RHP Burnes OF Lutz SS Turang ---- ss: Urias 2b: Hiura lf: Yelich rf: Haniger c: Narvaez 1b: Braun 3b: Seager cf: Cain pitcher Bench: Pina, Gamel, Mathias, Rodriguez, Taylor rotation: Woodruff, Dunn, Lauer, Houser, Anderson bullpen: Hader, Knebel, Suter, Sheffield, Peralta, Rasmussen, Lindholm, Yardley

For the record I said I would have spent money on Moustakas over the Seager trade proposed...if those were the options. I wouldn't do either...just saying if I was spending $15mil I would have gotten Moustakas. Would it? Sure, but as I pointed out I am not entirely sure he actually bounced back. Kind of hiding his poor play the majority of the year with a fluke hot streak that doesn't indicate his truer production level. This is why I try to go for some sort of "go big" move. Like this: https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-18554/ Brewers get: OF Haniger RHP Dunn LHP Sheffield 3B Seager Mariners get: OF Lutz RHP Burnes SS Turang Or this: https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-18555/ Brewers get: OF Haniger RHP Dunn LHP Sheffield 3B Seager Mariner get: LHP Hader

Over the last three years Hader ranks 2nd in fWAR (5.9), 1st in rWAR (7.2), 2nd in WPA (7.26), 7th in ERA- (57), 9th in FIP- (63) & 1st in K% (44.6). None of Rasmussen, Andrews, QTC or any other reliever in all of baseball, really, are likely to come anywhere close to replicating his production. Suter's 18 relief innings last year were amazing & integral to our success, but if he pitches all of 2020 out of the bullpen, the odds of him putting up 75+ innings with ERA-/FIP- marks around 60 & WAR/WPA marks of 2.5 (AKA an average Hader season), are extremely low. Would be beyond cool if it happened, but I certainly would bet the under. Yeah, picking up WAR elsewhere, such as the lineup, in the event Hader is moved seems much more plausible than expecting the existing pieces of a potential pen to pick up his slack. Doesn't mean they can't put together an effective relief squad, they'll just have to go about it a bit differently. Full year of Rasmussen and Suter in the pen could probably get close to it. Then take the Lutz-for-Seager-Sheffield-Dunn deal https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-18485/ rotation stands at Woodruff, Lindholt, Lauer, Dunn, Houser bullpen would be Knebel, Hader, Suter, Rasmussen, Sheffield, Peralta, Black, and Wahl. Now move Hader to the Mets for McNeil, Lowrie, and Baty. ss: Urias 2b: Hiura rf: Yelich 1b: McNeil lf: Braun c: Narvaez cf: Cain 3b: Seager pitcher bench: Pina, Lowrie, Rodriguez, Mathias, Gamel rotation: Woodruff, Lindholt, Lauer, Dunn, Houser bullpen: Knebel, Suter, Rasmussen, Sheffield, Peralta, Black, Wahl, Yardley I give up Hader's 2.5 WAR, but McNeil makes up a fair bit of that. Dunn makes up for some of it. Rasmussen has posted an 11.6 K/9 in the minors. Over his career, Hader had a 10.1. If Rasmussen pitches the whole year in relief, I think he makes up most of the WAR the Crew gives up for Hader.

I have no idea how this provides LA with “equal value” but if Friedman hits his head hard enough to say “Yes”, Stearns needs to submit the necessary paperwork as soon as he hangs up the phone. Edit: Sorry, I’m not sure why I was thinking of Corey not Kyle. This would be a good return for the Brewers but I’m not sure Dipoto would give up this much just to dump all of Seager’s salary. I think he is more willing to send a significant amount of $$$ out to minimize his need to add value to a deal. Dangle Tristan Lutz in front of him... maybe he does cough up a return. Why think small? Milwaukee is a small market, but that doesn't mean they can't think big.

I can live with Seager at full price IF the Brewers can get something good in return. Now, if people don't mind sending Tristan Lutz to Seattle, BaseballTradeValues.com indicated that in addition to Seagar, the crew could land Justus Sheffield and Justin Dunn. https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-18485/ Now, things get interesting. Seager may or may not rebound, but Dunn looks like the young #2 the Crew wants. Sheffield could slot into the pen.

Hmmm... how about this? https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-18485/ Brewers get: 3B Seager LHP Sheffield RHP Dunn Mariners get: OF Lutz

Exactly. Rasmussen is just as capable of filling the multi-inning relief role as Hader. So is Suter. There are Clayton Andrews and Quintin Torres-Costa, coming off an impressive AFL. Don't forget Freddy Peralta, either. If Knebel comes back, that gives the Crew a back end of Knebel, Suter, Rasmussen, Peralta. Then add others like Wahl, Black, Yardley, maybe Burnes and Brown get back on track... Then we still have a superb pen, but also have the return from Hader.

You nailed it. The Brewers don't make the playoffs in either 2018 or 2019 without Moustakas and it's likely now they won't in 2020 with him gone. Stearns failed to foresee that the market would be thin for 3B in 2019-2020 and should have locked in Moose for 3 years last offseason when he clearly could have been had for 3/45. Part of that calculation of course was the thought that Shaw would still be a productive power bat. To top it off, he inadvertently increased Moose's market value by playing him at 2B which was totally unnecessary. All that being said, they still could have afforded what the Reds gave him. Now their alternatives are to fork over even more to sign a Donaldson or watch their playoff window slammed shut. All this smoke about a Hader trade is a sign they realize they might have blew it. This offseason to date has been terribly discouraging. It's almost as if ownership decided to cash in on two playoff seasons by taking a big profit in 2020 and trusting that the fans would still show up. Right now they look a lot like last years 90 loss Angels team. Yeah they still have a MVP caliber player but not nearly enough around him. When it's all said and done, the biggest miscalculation was not locking in Moose last year, and compounding that by not paying him what the market dictated this year. Brewer nation deserves better than that. In some ways, yes. I'd have preferred to pay Grandal and would have kept Thames. That said, I like Narvaez - and if the Crew kept Grandal, would they have acquired Narvaez? And Narvaez is about a third of the cost of Grandal for similar production. Moose had a great year, but is he worth four years at $16 million a year? Probably not. Hader is an extremely valuable asset, but is his value what he does, or what he can bring? McNeil/Davis would set the corner IF positions for four-five years and be outstanding complements to Yelich. Hader goes, Drew Rasmussen steps in. Or Clayton Andrews. Or QTC.

It's what the Brewers needed to do with Nelson in 2019, IMO. Turn him into a reliever.

I agree. Is he a good second piece? Yes. How about something like this - a three-team deal between the Brewers, Mets, and Yankees: https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-18455/ Brewers get: IF McNeil IF Lowrie 3B/1B Andujar Yankees get: OF Lutz 1B J.D. Davis Mets get: LHP Hader OF Cabello

Jeff McNeil was an All-Star last year. He's been mentioned in this thread as a potential target. He'd be a solid fit at 3B I think. 27 years old, and broke out in a huge way last year power wise. The high-contact bat has always been there. He's be a nice part of a package. As one of the more vocal advocates for getting McNeil, I would also note that Citi's multi-year park factor in 2019 was 92 hitting/92 pitching. Consider this: The multi-year park factor for Marlins Park that same year was 94 hitting/96 pitching. Miller Park's multi-year factors are 101/101. What did the shift in parks do for Yelich? He went from solid outfielder with an .800 career OPS in Miami to one whose OPS in Milwaukee is 1.046. McNeil's career OPS is .896. If he has the same sort of jump (246 OPS points)... that puts him in Yelich territory. Potential MVP. Under team control through 2025, per Baseball-Reference. Worth Hader one-for-one. And I bet the Crew could also get J.D. Davis as well in the deal.

For me, the Mets match up best, with the ability to get McNeil and Davis at a minimum. To me, Citi Field's park factors suggest McNeil could fare much better in Miller Park. Did anyone really think Yelich would be a MVP-type player when that trade went down?

The Brewers did have Chad Spanberger, acquired for Chase Anderson. Ramos would arguably be superfluous in that case. I suspect, though, Cooper Hummel might be an interesting NRI. Has played catcher and OF... maybe could handle first, and has quietly put up impressive seasons.

Jeff Passan reporting on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JeffPassan_MLB/status/1205250021676978176 Package in return includes Andujar.

Over the last three years our starting pitchers have posted a 94 ERA-, 10th best in baseball. Combined with our bullpen, offense & defense that has been good enough for the team to win 271 games, 8th most in MLB. Same as the Cubs, more than the A's or Rays or Cardinals. Our rotation has been good enough for us to miss the postseason in 2017 by 1 game when no one dreamed we would be that competitive, get us to Game 7 of the NLCS in 2018 & get us to the Wild Card game with a lead over the eventual WS Champs before our bullpen & defense lost the game in 2019. Is that "good enough"? Clearly, individual mileage will vary, but for me personally I think it has been very entertaining to observe over the last few years. Also, take away Jimmy Nelson's freak injury in 2017... and we're talking a whole different Crew.

And it's signings like this that make me embarrassed for factions of our fan base. LOOK AROUND! Roark got 12 mil AAV. Lyles got 8 mil AAV. Gausman got 9-10. Treinen got 10 coming off an awful year. Would any of those guys make you feel warm and fuzzy? Are any of those sure things? It's like a huge number of people have never had to be strategic about anything in their lives. MKE can't afford to be strong everywhere and pitching is often highly inflated in cost. MKE can not afford top end ace pitchers. Can not. I've pointed to the .9 to 1.1 run diff for well over a year now and that there is an easy way to achieve it if you can simply find 1 starting pitcher solidly sub 4 (3.5 range) and then keep the rest under 4.2. Nothing world beating. If your 5 starters can sit at a 4 ERA the pen can drop you dramatically under 4. That's a great staff. There are 30 teams in this league. 6... SIX... were sub 4 era. What's the cheapest way to do that? Guys like this! Guys like Miley, Gio, Chacin, Anderson, Davies and trading next to nothing for a nobody like Lyles. How many times have they pulled serviceable out of thin air. This team was 1 game from the WS one season ago. ONE. In the last 2 years they were in the playoffs twice and NLCS 1 time. I mean I'd understand if you never saw it work but you just watched it work to the tune of 1 game from the WS. I somehow remember they were leading the team that won the WS this year. Leading in an elimination game, without Yelich. Who was on MKE's staff? Strasburg Cole Verlander Kershaw and Darvish right? RIGHT? 3 mil a year. 6 mil if he pitches as a starter. Cheaper than all the other nobodies we've seen sign deals. Low risk, upside, and a guy who can be a 3mil pen piece if it doesn't pan out. Will Roark give back half his money if he flops? Guy started 30 games last year and was at 6.5 IP per start. This is a brilliant signing. It might not work out, but the idea is brilliant. Yet, factions of this fan base complain. There is nothing to complain about with this signing. Welcome the KBO Cy Young to the roster and hope DS did it again. This. Worst case, the Crew has a decent bullpen option for three years at a cheap price. Best case, the Brewers have a near-TOR pitcher for a good price - and who could be flipped in the last year of the deal for a very nice haul - even as a one-year rental.

In all honesty, that won't get it done. At this point, it might be better to trade him either now, or next season. Just can't see us handing out a 245 million contract...………………………………………………..EVER! Yelich is all but gone after this contract. That is why now was the time for us to spend the money and provide additional support that would hopefully get us a World Series. Similar to how the Packers were always a key piece away that prevented them from winning additional Super Bowls while they had Fabre and Rodgers. They team is competitive, so it brings out the fans, but eventually these solo superstars can’t carry the team the entire season. I’m in the same boat, if we are going cheap mode (and I’m not saying we are), I’d rather trade Yelich now and hopefully make a strong run in another 4-5 years than just be competitive but not really have a real chance for the next two years. Three years is a long time... and a lot can still happen in the offseason. Milwaukee can't afford to sign free agents to 7-year, $245 million deals. Even with deferred money, if the deal goes south, it cripples the team. The way they get the star players is: 1. Develop them. 2. Trade for them. In the case of Yelich, whose current contract goes through age 30, there is always the option of the qualifying offer. Maybe he takes it, and gives the Crew one more year. The other option is that he agrees to something like 2 years, $60 million - allowing him a second free-agent bite at the apple after his age 32 season. High AAV, but extends the Crew's window. Or, if Milwaukee is lucky, he decides to be a Brewer for the rest of his career and signs a five-year deal for $135 million (figure $10 million bonus - split between the 2021 and 2022 seasons with $25 million deferred and paid out over ten years). With the risk on that side.

What did Greinke cost? Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jeremy Jeffress, and Jake Odorizzi. Odorizzi was flipped for Wade Davis, a member of their bullpen for the 2015 World Series. Cain and Escobar started for the Royals. Not even two years later, the Brewers dealt Greinke for Hellweg, Pena, and Segura. Segura was okay, and helped the Crew land Chase Anderson and Isan Diaz. The former did okay with the Crew. The latter helped bring Yelich. Then there's what CC Sabathia cost for three months. Trading for the TOR starter is arguably more expensive than signing one in free agency. It's a different form of paying out, but it also matters.

If Thames comes back, he takes first and Braun goes in left.

If he is lights out, why would it be bad to have him another season? It’s not like there are top arms coming up in the farm system I'm with this to some extent. The real value the Brewers get is the prospects in the deal. That said... Happ intrigues me as a bullpen option. Maybe as a swing role, maybe as a back-end option. Suppose he can do what Ian Kennedy did for the Royals.

A McNeil/Davis package is not bad, either. Third base and first base filled cheap for two years, controlled for five years, by players who whose OPS+ was at least 138. And both will come from a field that is MORE pitcher-friendly than Marlins Park... and we saw what the move from Miami to Milwaukee did for Yelich...

Yes. I get that. In reference to Suppan&Lohse it is that you are buying in to them at their highest value at the time. And in Kuechel his value isnt at its highest. Ryu would be a great get. But I'm in the feelings now he's going to cost at least 4-80. Also I figure Ryu would have certain destinations in mind and Milw wouldn't be one even if we came at him for 4-96 being a foreign player and all. The way I see it is this: Ryu's best-case scenario for performance over the contract is better than the best-case scenario for Keuchel. That said, when it comes to likely worst-case scenarios, Keuchel's "floor" is arguably higher than Ryu's. Ryu's shoulder is a legitimate worry, and Keuchel had some neck problems. The latter is less worrisome, even if Keuchel's ERA is almost a full run higher. Maybe the Brewers get both. A rotation of Ryu, Woodruff, Keuchel, Lauer, and Houser is one to go to war with.