JosephC

Come on dumb-dumbs, just take a few more QBs before #12!

Sounds like either a Jeffery Simmons or Noah Fant move to me. Seems like there would have to be more than 1 target, because you can't risk moving up this early and then have that guy taken ahead of the pick. I'd figure they would have to get up to #21 to feel pretty safe that one of the two will be available. I could see Fant going to the Titans at #19. Seahawks are picking at #21. Not sure if Simmons would go higher than that or not. Seattle only have five picks and would probably be open to a trade down. Trade value chart says a fair swap would be something like the Packers getting #21 and #159 (5th) and the Seahawks getting #30 and #75 (3rd).

The Cardinals have developed starting pitching over the years, and haven't been afraid to begin guys like Adam Wainwright in the bullpen. I don't think any Brewer fans are really happy with the prospect of having all three guys in the bullpen or in AAA, but Attanasio make pretty big investments in this roster and they are expect to contend. They can't just let those young guys stay in the rotation and get hammered unless they fall out of the playoff race and that possibility is still months off. I have no problem putting them in the bullpen if they are the best options for the bullpen, it's possible that could be the best course of action as they might pitch well, regain confidence at the MLB level and if a starter gets hurt then they could go back in the rotation and get another chance to prove themselves. Is this a worse plan than assuming Burnes will develop by going down to AAA and beating up on inferior competition for awhile? I'm not saying one approach is any more valid than another. Each player probably will handle a bullpen assignment versus a minor league assignment a bit differently. What I would like is for the Brewers to take the 40 man roster, figure out who the best five starters are right now and put those five players into the rotation, and then figure out who the next best eight pitchers are and put those eight pitchers in the bullpen and then work from there. If Corbin Burnes and Freddy Peralta and Brandon Woodruff get removed from the rotation but are in fact, legitimate major league starting pitchers, then I have no doubt that they will work their way back into the rotation soon enough.

Woah, that would be pretty good if Green Bay could come out with that pair. I'd still guess that getting Simmons at #30 is too much of a stretch. There are good teams picking once we get past #20. Some of those teams do have glaring holes that need filling, but I have to figure that there will be a few that doesn't have to fill a need immediately and can sit back and take a player like Simmons.

Sounds like I've already botched my projection at #12 before things have even begun. Rumors are that Coughlin loves Jonah Williams and is taking him at #7. Most of this pre-draft stuff I just roll my eyes at, but Williams does seem like an ideal player for Coughlin considering he's been pretty vocal about being open to playing any spot along the line and doing whatever the team feels is best. Can't really see why smoke-screening serves any purpose here, the next guy on their list would probably be Hockenson and I just can't see any team wanting to trade over Jacksonville to take Hockenson with a higher pick. If Williams goes at #7, does that push Washington State LT-Ander Dillard to the Packer's pick at #12? I think it's pretty likely he's available and he'd be a hard guy to pass up, even with the concerns with the system he played in at Washington State.

What's a pure 5-technique NT? Have to assume there was a typo in there somewhere?

Word is breaking now that Sweat was misdiagnosed, and the heart "issue" really isn't an issue at all. That might change things. If I'm the Packers, and Sweat is sitting there at #12, it would be hard not to consider him. That's just a bit odd. Sweat's DLine coach at Mississippi State has said that he knew about Sweat's heart problem at Mississippi State and it was never an issue. He even made a comment that the Michigan State doctors knew about it when Sweat was there. So obviously this had been diagnosed many years earlier, and then the doctors in Indy diagnosed it, and on the day of the draft now everyone previously had screwed up and it's not an issue at all? Sounds a bit fishy. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2832503-whats-the-story-with-montez-sweat Have to believe that if the Packer doctors disqualified him, that this latest report will not put him back on Gutekunst's board. If the Packer doctors cleared him, then Gutekunst had him on the board and I don't think this late report changes his evaluation. Some news for the fans but I very much doubt if it holds any significance for 30 NFL teams.

If your sister had a history of miscarriages, and a woman walked up to your sister and said, "F--- you and your dead babies" which sparked a fight between the two and then you jumped in and threw some punches in a moment of anger for a statement as infuriating as that....as just an 18 year old kid...believe it or not, I wouldn't hold it against you three years later. Especially not if you were a good, model citizen prior to the incident and have been a model citizen since that time. There are all sorts of stories out there with people vouching for Simmons as a "good character" individual both before and after the incident.

Yes, I think it's safe to say that the Brewers are out on Keuchel. Even though Gonzalez is a pretty minimal investment, I don't think they would have brought him in if they had serious designs on obtaining Keuchel. I think Boras is dug in at a price-tag that is simply out of the Brewer's range, and if Keuchel waits until after the draft and still can't hit his price-tag, then he's either out for the year or drops the price-tag to a point where several teams express interest and then the Brewers probably don't want to be in that situation where they are bidding on him with limited funds when there will be other trade options available.

I'd have a real hard time picking a player that high when it's guaranteed he won't play a down in year one. Common sense says you have to downgrade him by 20% based on that alone. Then one has to assume that he comes back from the injury at 100%. Hard for me to believe that there aren't 12 players better in the draft after the grade is adjusted for the above factors. I do like Simmons as a player and think he could be very special as there aren't that many guys that could fit as a NG, DT or DE in the Packers defense, and Simmons likely could play any of those spots. I also don't have any problems with the incident from many years ago, sounds like Simmons has demonstrated plus-plus character during his time at Mississippi State and McGinn talked to 15 NFL guys about it and all 15 said they weren't concerned with Simmons character moving forward. Journal-Sentinel writers have made the following predictions: Silverstein = ILB-Devin Bush/Michigan and OT-Kaleb McGary/Washington Dougherty = ILB-Devin Bush/Michigan and S-Darnell Savage, Jr./Maryland Wood = OL-Jonah Williams/Alabama and TE-Irv Smith, Jr./Alabama (THIEF, LOL!) Owczarski = DT-Ed Oliver/Houston and OT-Cody Ford/Oklahoma

LHP-James Pazos has been DFA'ed by the Phillies. Pazos has been a disaster so far in 2019. Seemingly penciled into the bullpen, he pitched his way off the 25 man roster in spring training (6.14 ERA, 1.77 WHIP, 4 BB/2 K) and since then has been terrible in AAA (6.14 ERA, 2.05 WHIP, 7 BB/4 K). In 2017/2018 Pazos was a really solid pitcher for the Mariners. 3.39 ERA, 3.83 FIP, 1.32 WHIP, 2.8 K/BB ratio. In 2018, lefties OPS'ed .800 off of him and righties only OPS'ed .604 off of him. But 2018 was a bit deceiving. When looking at the 3 year splits from 2016-2018, lefties OPS'ed .706 off of him and righties OPS'ed .747 off of him. So he has shown over a decent timeframe that he can be fairly effective against both right and left handed hitters. He only has 2+ years of MLB experience and still has 2 options remaining according to RosterResource. He will turn 28 years old about a week from now. The Brewers could wait and try to sign him if he is eventually released. But considering he can be optioned, I don't think it would be ridiculous for the Brewers to trade one or two long shot prospects to the Phillies, put Pazos on the 40-man (I like him better than Hart), and option him and see if they can get him right in San Antonio. He's been terrible this year but IMO would be worth a gamble.

Both Williams and Houser are AAAA material and no real help. Thames is an all or nothing guy who is worse than Smoak. Supak is a back-end of rotation type prospect and Rodriguez is barley starting out. This trade would be trading money and hot now type players for prospects and throw-ins. I doubt seriously that the Jays would want anything to do with it. Not nearly enough coming back to them for what they are giving up. That was my first reaction when looking through the possibilities. I had actually started with Aaron Sanchez and not Stroman, but after looking through Sanchez's peripherals (not to mention the current fingernail injury), I pretty much reached the conclusion that Sanchez really shouldn't be a real trade target until he puts a string of success together. And it's been awhile since he's done so. But when including Stroman, I definitely got the vibe of "give us your best player for a whole bunch of our junk" which I see a lot of people throw out and, frankly, I hate it when they do so. But when looking at the individual components.....Ken Giles has very little if any trade value. From 2016-2018 his annual average fWAR/bWAR is only 0.95. So over 2019/2020 it would probably be fair to evaluate him as being worth 1.9 WAR. He makes pretty good money all things considered (14.3 million estimated since he is in arbitration). Not unreasonable to put his surplus value in the range of just 2-3 million dollars which makes him worth 1 fringe prospect. Smoak has been a 1.8 bWAR/fWAR player from 2016-2018. Last year of his deal, he probably has surplus value of about 10 million. Now if you are the Blue Jays, how many teams are going to want to trade for an .830 OPS first baseman (a fair full season projection IMO)? Now reduce the field, how many BUYERS/CONTENDING teams will want to trade for an .830 OPS first baseman? There is nothing wrong with an .830 OPS, but it's not an overwhelming figure coming out of the 1B spot. He earns 6 million this year, fair surplus value on him is 10 million dollars. That's more than Thames, who has averaged 1.25 WAR in 2017-2018, but Thames has the advantage of having that option year, so the team controls him for an additional season and if Thames proves to be a non-fit then the Blue Jays can buyout that year (1 million). So Smoak has more value than Thames, but it is probably only in the area of 3-4 million surplus dollars. Frankly, a Giles/Smoak for Thames/role-player prospect/fringe prospect is a pretty even deal. For the sake of this scenario, let's say that translates to Giles/Smoak for Thames/Adrian Houser/Carlos Rodriguez...even though I would classify Rodriguez as more of a role-player prospect than fringe prospect which would swing the value to the Jay's side. I've already gone on about Stroman and his past WAR/ERA/FIP and explained the 25-30 million surplus value. Ray is a back end top 100 prospect, which is about 21 million in prospect surplus value. However, with his poor offensive start to this season, I'll knock him down to 18 million. Supak, solid role player prospect, fits in at 5.5 million in surplus value. Williams, probably somewhere between role-player prospect and fringe prospect (normally I value at 2.2 million). So 18 + 5.5 + let's say 3.5 for Williams = 27 total in surplus value. It's sort of in the range of what Stroman should be valued at IMO. But no question this is a "quantity" trade for the Blue Jays that will save them some money and could turn out to be a sell high with Stroman considering his somewhat erratic track record. IMO the entire Smoak/Giles/Thames/etc (everyone not named Stroman or Ray) is just evening out. This comes down to how the Brewers view Stroman and how the Jays view Ray. Smoak is the subject of this thread so he is included and that gets Thames included. But that's all just window dressing for the Stroman/Ray swap. Then, of course, the Brewers need to add because Stroman is worth more than Ray. I think the overall package does a pretty good job. Note that all of the five "young players" headed to the Jays are not Aaron Wilkerson, older-type MiLB vets who really don't have upside anymore. Houser and Williams both still have a solid chance of being 25-man roster "automatics"). Ray is in MLB Pipeline's Top 100 prospects. Supak is a solid role-player prospect who's stock has gone up every year since joining the Brewers and he is off to a good start this year. And I specifically picked Rodriguez because I think he has shown to be the best of the Brewers "latest wave" of international prospects and figured he would be a necessity over someone like Larry Ernesto (who also appears to be a pretty decent prospect). So while it's "quantity," it's not like it's Aaron Wilkerson/Bubba Derby/C.J. Hinojosa quantity, it's definitely a significant cut above that.

Have to start wondering if and when the Brewers are going to make a decision on Woodruff? I think the Brewers have to seriously considering moving him out of the rotation after another bad start. I've posted the splits many times, the statistical difference between him as a MLB starter and MLB reliever is pretty staggering. I'd have no problem putting Woodruff into the bullpen immediately and maybe putting Guerra back into the rotation. Guerra has the attractive ERA as a reliever, but that BB/K ratio results in pretty ugly FIP and xFIP and one has to wonder how long he'll sustain the ERA. Hopefully Woodruff can rebound with a solid start. Really disappointing last time out considering he got decent results in the previous game against the Cardinals.

With the way things are shaping up, I wouldn't be surprised if Gutekunst throws a real curve ball at #12 and takes someone like OG-Cody Ford/Oklahoma. From the videos I've viewed on Tennessee's offense last year, it sure looked like they were a standard zone blocking team, and if that's the case someone like OG-Jonah Williams is probably a better fit. I didn't think there was any possibility of a guard at #12 when I got up this morning, but with the way things are shaking out, there is a pretty decent chance it will happen. I also wouldn't be shocked if they drafted Noah Fant at #12 either. I did a lot of looking at former Mike Pettine defenses, and while there have been some 6-0 LBs that have backed up, it seems like most of his starting linebackers have stood in the 6-3/6-2 area, which makes me think they won't take ILB-Devin Bush/Michigan even if he is available. But who knows for sure? Gutekunst only has a one-year track record and LaFleur has no track record as a head coach. I'll do this projection today: 1-12 = Jonah Williams/OG/Alabama Actually had penciled in OG-Cody Ford/Oklahoma at this spot and went back and changed it because Ford seems better suited for a power scheme and Williams seems better suited for a zone scheme. But that decision was largely based on YouTube videos and my amateur eye which could be completely wrong in evaluating what LaFleur might prefer. Also think the Packers might prefer Ford as big mammoth RT that could just maul people. Williams has been getting a lot of crap over the last couple of weeks but he's a technique-sound guy who could probably play all over the line. Limited ceiling but probably a really high floor as well. 1-30 = Irv Smith Jr./TE/Alabama The thing that worries me about this projection is that Gutekunst took three receivers last year and all three of those guys had height. Smith is short for a tight end (6-2 3/8). But the more I looked at the board, the more it was obvious that Hockenson and Fant are at one level, Smith is at the next level, and there is a huge, huge falloff in TE quality after Smith goes off the board. Reports are that Smith is a decent positional blocker and has excellent upside as a pass-catcher. 2-44 = Juan Thornhill/S/Virginia If the Packers pass on safety at #30, and I'd guess they will because I don't think Smith makes it to #44, safety seems like the overwhelming favorite at this spot. And there are several that will be available. Johnathan Abram/Mississippi State will likely be gone, but frankly he's so much of a box safety that I'm not even convinced that the Packers would want him. Most think Taylor Rapp/Washington will be gone, but he ran so poorly in workouts that I'm guessing he slides and keeps sliding right past pick #44. I really think Thornhill, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson/Florida, Nasir Adderley/Delaware and Darnell Savage, Jr./Maryland are all possibilities. I ended up dismissing Gardner-Johnson due to the reports that he has significant issues playing on the back end, Adderley because it sounds like he might be better suited as a cornerback, and Savage because he has less than ideal size. But all the players in this group are pretty interested, and I wouldn't be disappointed if the Packers took any of them. If it is safety at #44, it will be very interesting to see which one Gutekunst selects. 3-75 = Germaine Pratt/ILB/North Carolina State This is the pick I'd dislike because Pratt's bio is very similar to Oren Burks. Ex-safety that's bulked up to linebacker. Burks has more length and is a better athlete, but Pratt is more compact and does appear to be a stronger player. Nonetheless, Pratt ran a 4.57 40-yard dash at the combine and maybe could be the player the Packers hoped they were getting in Burks last year. I haven't totally written off Burks yet, but that was really ugly last year. 4-114 = Will Harris/S/Boston College This is where I started looking really hard for a defensive lineman, but IMO all of the quality ones are already gone and there are nothing but projects left. As you can see, there is no defensive lineman selections in this projection which is a disappointment. I ended up going with another safety here as a best player pick. Harris has the ideal build for a safety, showed good speed at the combine (4.41 in the 40), has some toughness and is a smart guy and intelligent player. 4-118 = Ben Banogu/OLB/Texas Christian This one might be a stretch in terms of availability. The compilation board I'm working off has him slotted at #123, McGinn is projecting him as a third round pick. Has good athletic ability and real pass-rush upside. Instincts are mediocre. 5-150 = Tyler Roemer/OT/San Diego State This one could be a stretch in terms of character. Roemer was suspended from the team with another player for a violation of team rules, likely for failing drug test(s) but the reason was never made public. From what I could gather, it doesn't sound like he's a bad guy or has a Randy Gregory type problem. I've seen plenty of footage on Roemer and think he'd be a solid day two pick if not for the character concerns. I think he stands head and shoulders above the remaining offensive lineman at this point of the draft, and would guess that Gutekunst would gamble on him at this point if available. 6-185 = David Sills V/WR/West Virginia Long, linear receiver that can create some matchup problems down the field but isn't the most physical guy. I seem some similar qualities between Sills and Abbrederis who, of course, couldn't cut it. 6-3 1/4, 4.57 40-yard time, 33 touchdown catches in his last two seasons at West Virginia. Seems like a reasonable guy to take in round 6. 6-194 = Ka'dar Hollman/CB/Toledo Getting pretty thinned out at this point in the draft, so why not take a couple guys that Packers have been connected to and could win a roster spot? Hollman looked to be an undrafted player a couple weeks ago, but his stock has been on the rise more than some of the other "undrafted projections" that have visited Green Bay, so it's pretty reasonable that the Packers would use a pick on him here now that it appears he has a good chance of being drafted. 7-226 = Andrew Beck/TE/Texas Another player that visited Green Bay. Was mostly an H-back at Texas, projects as a combo FB/TE in the NFL. Even after drafting Irv Smith early, the Packers could still use some help at TE and Danny Vitale is the only fullback on the roster (and is somewhat of a similar player to Beck). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Packers took FB-Alec Ingold/Wisconsin here, depending on if LaFleur thinks it's necessary to add a pure fullback to the roster. Fullback was pretty much a worthless position in McCarthy's offense.

Why shouldn't they? This was a totally unexpected move that nobody other than an insider could have predicted!

I mocked through the first 11 picks and somehow wound up with a near-doomsday situation for the Packers. Obviously this won't happen as I'd expect the trade activity to really start around pick #8 which jumbles things up. The positive is that I don't see an early run on QBs, and with Miami and Washington needing QBs and sitting right after Green Bay, it presents excellent trade down opportunities. Actually, that's where things will get jumbled up, because those are the teams that would likely look to move up to Detroit's spot at #8 to get their QB ahead of Denver (although I think Denver will be content with Flacco for one year, and at least this morning it appears that most Bronco geared sites are naming Devin Bush as the favorite for Denver's first pick). 1. Cardinals - Kyler Murray/QB/Oklahoma 2. 49ers - Nick Bosa/DE/Ohio State 3. Jets - Quinnen Williams/DT/Alabama 4. Raiders - Josh Allen/OLB/Kentucky 5. Buccaneers - Devin White/LB/Louisiana State 6. Giants - Ed Oliver/DT/Houston 7. Jaguars - Jawaan Taylor/OT/Florida 8. Lions - Rashan Gary/DE/Michigan 9. Bills - Andre Dillard/OT/Washington State 10. Broncos-Devin Bush/LB/Michigan 11. Bengals - T.J. Hockenson/TE/Iowa

Since the beginning of 2016: Gonzalez = 3.87 ERA/3.95 FIP Chacin = 4.09 ERA/4.18 FIP Anderson = 3.69 ERA/4.66 FIP Davies = 3.92 ERA/4.13 FIP And the best ERA so far this season from the Brewers 4-pack of young starters (including Houser) is Woodruff's 5.81. Based on the above numbers it wouldn't be a stretch to say that he instantly becomes the Brewers #1 starting pitcher.

Gaines Adams died from a condition that is reported to be similar to Sweat. His condition was undetected. Nick Fairley has a similar condition to Sweat that was found in the pre-draft physical and went on to play for six NFL seasons and then was apparently shut down by doctors. The more I've looked into Sweat's condition, the more concerns I have about it. I think it's pretty unlikely that he will have a 10 year career, and will likely be shut down by doctor's at some point. It's anyone's guess is to when that will be. It's obviously not really serious right now, because they have excluded players from participating in combine activities after the physical and they allowed Sweat to participate. NFL teams just have to trust the medical opinions on this one. A pretty interesting article on the Maurice Hurst situation, it's unknown at this time if Hurst has the same condition as Adams/Fairley/Sweat but it's definitely worth taking the time to read this article: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-maurice-hurst-raiders-draft-irresponsible-0503-story.html Hurst was diagnosed with his condition during his freshman year at Michigan, went on to play four seasons for the Wolverines and played in 13 games for the Raiders last season.

The April mega-deal that never happens, for entertainment purposes only: Brewers get: RHP-Marcus Stroman 1B-Justin Smoak RHP-Ken Giles Blue Jays get: 1B-Eric Thames RHP-Adrian Houser RHP-Taylor Williams OF-Corey Ray RHP-Trey Supak OF-Carlos Rodriguez Stroman has a big reputation from the 3.09 ERA he posted in 2017. But the season before that the ERA was 4.37, the year after that the ERA was 5.54. His FIPs during those three seasons were 3.71, 3.90, 3.91. Taking the crazy ERA jumps and dips from 4.37 to 3.09 to 5.54...ERA over those three seasons was 4.10. FIP over those three seasons is 3.83. Note that he did suffer injury problems in 2018, which is going to negatively impact those numbers. However, the history shows that Stroman is likely a quality high 3's ERA type pitcher over the long run, and really has not been a front line starter to this point. The fact that he's a real small guy won't help his trade value at all. Taking Stroman's average seasonal bWAR/fWAR from 2016-2018, it comes out to a shade under 2.5. While many would assume he would carry high trade value, based on the numbers I would only put his surplus value in the 25-30 million dollar range. And since he is off to a hot start this year, Toronto might decide to sell him right now rather than risk regression back to high 3's ERA territory or, worse yet, injury. The three players heading to Milwaukee total 19.7 million in salary which is a pretty big number considering where the Brewers are already at. Therefore, Thames and his 6 million salary has to go to Toronto to provide a bit of salary relief. Toronto currently has injury problems with their staff so Adrian Houser and Taylor Williams are included to immediately go onto the 25 man roster and pick up MLB innings. Probably the weakest area of the Jays farm system would be outfielder, which would make Corey Ray a realistic target. It would all come down to what value each side puts on Stroman and Ray. If both sides see Stroman as having 25-30 million in surplus value and Corey Ray having about 18 million in surplus value, then all the other pieces included kind of evens up everything from a surplus value standpoint.

It's not a poor example when Nashville's ownership put it out there that they had been unhappy with the players the Brewers had given them over the previous few seasons. In turn Melvin was unhappy with them because he felt their decision had been made a year earlier after the poor 57-87 season but, out of spite, they waited until the last minute (after a respectable, rebound season no less) to pull the plug which ended up with the Brewers getting stuck in Colorado. There sure seemed to be plenty of bad feelings on both sides when the relationship ended. And the relationship initially soured because the Sounds felt that the talent the Brewers had recently been providing them was completely unsatisfactory, especially when they were going through the process of getting a new stadium built, which is something they had been working towards for about 10 years. https://web.archive.org/web/20170813011946/http://m.mlb.com/news/article/95157658/brewers-general-manager-doug-melvin-miffed-by-breakup-with-triple-a-affiliate/

People who say that wins and losses don't matter for minor league clubs have a pretty short memory and have forgotten how badly the Brewers relationship ended with the Nashville Sounds.

I'd rather see Thames at 1B. Last seven days has slashed .273/.333/1.000/1.333. He's a streaky bat so why not try to ride him for awhile?

That's why I like Gonzalez, the price-tag should be low enough to allow the Brewers to make another move in July. He recently had to sign a minor league deal. There might be more demand for him now, but he will have missed 1/6th of the season. Anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe a team will throw 7 million at him when he couldn't even find a major league deal a few weeks ago. The price on him should be pretty reasonable. Gonzalez might not be a needle mover, but if looking at the recent history, he should bring a reliable upgrade to the pitching staff. Since the beginning of 2016: Gonzalez = 3.87 ERA/3.95 FIP Chacin = 4.09 ERA/4.18 FIP Anderson = 3.69 ERA/4.66 FIP Davies = 3.92 ERA/4.13 FIP And the best ERA so far this season from the Brewers 4-pack (including Houser) of young starters is Woodruff's 5.81. There is always a chance the Gonzalez is now too old, has hit the wall, would come in here and be completely ineffective. But recent history demonstrates that there is just as good a chance that he would come in here and be the team's best starting pitcher. It definitely seems to be worth taking a 3-4 million dollar risk on him.

It's almost like Stearns went on vacation during the off-season and let Doug Melvin put this pitching staff together.

Even with the heart condition, I don't think Sweat makes it to #12 much less #30. They do the physicals at the combine prior to the workouts, and the doctors there cleared him and allowed him to fully participate in workout activities. Any heart condition is a concern, but based on the info we have, I would have to assume that he would pass the physical of a majority of teams. It's also worth noting that Washington OT-Kaleb McGary also has a heart condition, and the Packers had him in for a visit. Obviously the medical evaluations at the combine were not enough for Green Bay to remove either player from their board prior to scheduling the visit. Now maybe that changed when the team doctors took a look, but that is something we will probably never find out (unless the Packers end up selecting one or both of these players).