pacopete4

This is exactly it. If Price doesn't work out for the Red Sox, oh well, they can move on and still compete. But it could provide them with one of the best pitchers in baseball for the next 4-5 years as well. That is a HUGE advantage to have over a team like the Brewers. While yes, the Brewers don't get caught up in over spending, they also never get a chance to land a player that can transform a franchise. Huge disadvantage. Huge.

I'm right there with you.

Interesting trade. Can't see the Sox doing it because Garza was a piece last season, Lind only has a year left, and Lucroy is aging. Swihart and Owens both had decent beginnings to their MLB careers last season and have tremendous upside.

If you're going to do this, why not just have a DH? Seem's silly to do double switches when you could just swap in a DH and problem solved. I think it is silly that baseball is so behind the times with allowing a player to bat that barely ever even takes BP. It's such a waste that it hurts my brain to even think of how stupid it is to allow players who some, are no better than what you could pull out of the stands, to bat at the major league level.

Carlos Gomez supported an OPS of .654 in his first 1600+ plate appearances and then turned into one of the best CF's in the game. (.592/.657/.623/.655/.679) and the last number is at age 25. Jonathan Villar has posted an OPS of .653 through his first three big league seasons (658 PA's) and in his last season he OPS'd .752 at the age of 24 (only 128 PA's). Villar is a great guy to be had for the Brewers. Could definitely be a diamond in the rough that Gomez was for them. It's so easy to toss out these number and disregard these players but this guy has a chance to be a very good IF for a team and I'm glad it's the Brewers. But to block his AB's would probably be one of the dumbest things the Brewers could do. Not saying he needs to be penciled in as the Brewers 3B but he should be starting at least 5 of every 6 games. Can we stop comparing every young player who has bad major league numbers to Carlos Gomez? This is the same argument many people were making about Hernan Perez. Segura had a .729 OPS after his first two major league seasons. It's been .615 since. That argument works both ways. It's not the argument that he IS going to be a Gomez but the fact that if he's not given at bats and regular at bats, we'll never actually know how good he can become. If he was 26-27 already fine, play others. But not at 24 when he's already shown improvements.

Carlos Gomez supported an OPS of .654 in his first 1600+ plate appearances and then turned into one of the best CF's in the game. (.592/.657/.623/.655/.679) and the last number is at age 25. Jonathan Villar has posted an OPS of .653 through his first three big league seasons (658 PA's) and in his last season he OPS'd .752 at the age of 24 (only 128 PA's). Villar is a great guy to be had for the Brewers. Could definitely be a diamond in the rough that Gomez was for them. It's so easy to toss out these number and disregard these players but this guy has a chance to be a very good IF for a team and I'm glad it's the Brewers. But to block his AB's would probably be one of the dumbest things the Brewers could do. Not saying he needs to be penciled in as the Brewers 3B but he should be starting at least 5 of every 6 games.

He'd be blocking Villar, the guy they just traded for, not to mention Perez, both of whom are 24 and if you put them in the KBO, they'd likely put up huge numbers. Depends on what they do with Scooter and Segura definitely. If they plan to move on from those guys or even just one, signing this guy could be a possibility. Even as is. Villar might be a fill in all around the diamond and signing this guy still could be a possibility.

Do you really see Garza doing enough as a starter for a team to hand over anything of quality for him without the Brewers picking up 75% of his remaining contract? He's one year removed from having a very good year. I truly think he was injured more than not last season, tried to pitch through it, and it backfired on him and the Brewers. Do I think the Brewers will get a bunch of stud prospects for him? Probably not. But if he returns to form, they could at least flip him for a younger, controllable player. Definitely. It'd be very silly of the Brewers to not give him the beginning of the year to prove otherwise.

I'd rather pay David Price $30mil...or whatever Greinke gets paid. Me too.

It seems like a deal considering the pitcher he has been. I wish the Brewers were in a better state because this is the type of a deal they could do if close to contending. Rather pay a guy like Zimmermann $22/year than Garza $12-13/year.

No. If he's on this team at the beginning of this season he will be there for one reason and that would be to build his value back up to trade him for young, controllable player(s).

Why was this post titled as if we were in the bidding war? Either way, it's good to keep all options on the table.

Looks like a solid bat but where does he fit in defensively on this team?

Agreed. Sneed could turn into a MLB starter, how good? Who knows? But I do like the trade for a switch hitting IF that gives us a lot of versatility and possibly starts for us.

Looks like it would be a solid return for Lind but why would the Twins need him now with the Korean ball player they just bought, Mauer, and Ploufe to fill 1B/DH?

How could the union fight this? A manager has every right to pull/put in whoever the heck they want to. If a pitcher doesn't like it, there are 29 other teams he can sign with when he is a free agent.

I know who won't be mad and that's Craig Counsell, Attanasio and David Stearns. Stearns because if they win 80 (or more) it'll be because players they have took a step forward and rookies performed well. 80 wins is certainly not out of reach. There's talent on this roster as it now stands. If it meshes, they'll be watchable unless they deal Lucroy and don't get major league talent back. Counsell wants to win every game. Won/loss records go on a managers record. It doesn't matter that the team says it's "rebuilding". The manager is his record. Just ask Cub manager Dale Svuem and Astros manager Bo Porter. Oops they aren't managing anymore. Keep in mind that trading all useful veterans for prospects doesn't insure that 3-5 years from now, they they'll win more than 70 in any of those seasons either. Pittsburgh was in a state of rebuild for more than 20 years and drafted high year after year. Yeah, I agree completely. Could this team make a Lucroy trade for the future and obtain a catcher that could fill his role with say Alex Avila and still compete? Wonder what Stearns is thinking in this department.

Greinke and Arrieta were both highly ranked prospects (would have risen higher on the charts if they remained in the minors beyond age 22 or 23). Jungmann, Perlta, Nelson are all entering their later 20s and all have been either mid-rotation or worse players so far in their careers. This is simply not true. Greinke might not be a great example but Arrieta debuted at the age of 24 and did not figure it out til the age of 29. (Peralta debuted at 23, Nelson at 24, and Jungmann at 25 and all will be 26 this upcoming season). Dallas Keuchel of the Astros debuted at age 24, now 27 and figured it out. He was a 7th round draft pick who was never in the top 100 prospects nor in the top 20 of his own organization. (Peralta top 100 in 2011 & 12, Jungmann in 2011, Nelson in 2013). Max Scherzer was a 1st rounder and was only in the top 100 once as well. There are probably tons of examples but your belief that these three are back end of the rotation guys is just simply not correct.

No, it's not unheard of. But it is highly unlikely. The histories, scouting reports and skillsets of the above guys does not indicate they are the types of guys to become dominant pitchers. Thus, you play to what you do expect of them, making moves accordingly. This plays into the 'if everything goes right' idea that so many people get about this (or any) team. "If players A, B and C step up, if Player D and E come back fully from injury, if we avoid injuries, etc., etc. - we can compete." Sadly, it rarely goes that way. Life balances out the goods and bads. Again, not always. You'll have years where things do go well (2011 for example when our top five pitchers started every game but a half-doze or something like that). And year's things go bad (last year, for example - no one thought Garza and Lohse would crater so badly). We need to build a team that we predict will win 90 games - not 83 and hope for good luck. And on the chance that Jungmann, Peralta and Nelson become dominant pitchers - then you make adjustments during the year. If we miss out on the playoffs by a game, I'll be kicking myself for not keeping Lind (or K-Rod or whomever). But I judge this scenario highly unlikely - thus it's a risk that I'd take. The key is the team has to make the most honest assessment of it's talent and adjust accordingly. There will be mistakes - it is baseball and crazy stuff happens. But the key is being honest as to where we are as a team - and where we are going. I agree with a lot of your points. I am not against trading Lind, Segura, Gennett, Lucroy, Braun etc... either. Pitching can cover offense, offense does not cover pitching and defense throughout a whole season. I think you can make those trade, find players to fill their places and still have a shot at competing. I'm sure some will kill me on that but it is what it is. I am very aware that it is a big if but I still think a lot can be done with a different approach. There is a reason a Kyle Lohse can suck in Minnesota and go to the Cardinals and become a top end of the rotation guy. These three that we have right now could be brought to a higher level if the right philosophy and coaching is applied.

Bold Prediction: Jimmy Nelson, Taylor Jugmann and Willy Peralta will take the next steps in their journey's as MLB pitcher. Nelson will settle in as a true #1, Junmann as a #2 and Peralta as the #3 giving the Brewers a top end of the rotation that competes with the Cardinals and Pirates. Not only that but Davies settles in a a nice #4 as well who gives you a chance to win each start.

I wasn't trying to say that all three would become aces but it is not crazy to think that one of the three could become one and the other two become #2-3 type of the rotation guys. Look at a pitcher like Arietta who was absolutely horrible and now won a Cy Young. Or even a guy like Greinke. Take out his Cy Young year and at the same age in KC he was putting up numbers very close to the three guys on the Brewers. There are many more examples that could be used but I can tell by all your posts that no matter what any of the current Brewers could do won't matter to you because no matter what, it's play for 2018 and beyond. I really hope Stearns is playing for the future but also can see the present. We've home brewed three guys that can throw the ball pretty darn well. Get the right pitching coach with them and you just don't know what those guys can turn into.

It would be a tad frustrating not to get a higher draft pick, but I won't care about 80 wins as long as they aren't making "win now" trades at the deadline. If the eye is still on the future then they can win that many. I can't imagine they will in this division, though. Especially if Lucroy and/or Lind are gone - you have Davis and Braun as good players and one of the young guys will probably put up a nice season. Pitching staff would be lower end in the league. Once an injury or two happens you'll have one of the worst teams in the league anyways. It's just not unheard of for guys like Nelson, Peralta, Jungmann to take the next step and really be dominant. You pair that with a solid bullpen and you just never know what you get out of that equation. It's baseball, players/teams have good and bad years and sometimes it can be unexplainable.

My question is, will people be mad if next year this team wins 80 games? I mean it's not unheard of for teams to perform above what is expected/predicted.

Plus the fact that he has never played AA ball even yet.

Reymin Guduan makes me drool. Some team is going to take a chance on a lefty who can hit 100. Too many walks. Almost one an inning.