tmwiese55

Maybe some dominoes start falling. What do you mean on Lowrie? Those aren't his stats. Maybe those are second half or something? Sorry - Yes, i meant 2nd half stats Could be a concern of course. however, switch hitter with even-ish splits and can play SS a bit if needed if Arcia collapses. He was also playing in a big pitchers park so would get the boost here. Seems to check all our boxes as long as their experts aren't overly concerned about the 2nd half and of course money isn't crazy.

Maybe some dominoes start falling. What do you mean on Lowrie? Those aren't his stats. Maybe those are second half or something?

Seems all the more likely JT ends up with the Dodgers now. Probably where I'd put my money if I had to

Totally agree. And having a good backup like Pina allows flexibility assuming Thames is traded. If Jesus is more like 2nd half it would be good to rest him and take out some of his starts vs righties. So a game here or there at 1st by Grandal, one here or there by Shaw, etc. It's more easily done with Grandal if Pina is there doing well instead of Kratz. I'm not saying a ton or a fixed platoon, just here and there.

Well after Grandal I'm hoping they fully go "all in" here. I know these vets also need their last payday but I'm sure they'd also appreciate going to what seems like a legit WS situation. My goal would be to move Thames money out however you can and get this position taken care of. Lowrie/Gonzalez is the dream. I'd assume Lowrie is cheaper and less years so that's where I'd be targeting. Wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Anderson's money too, he's a fine mid level P but if they are confident in the younger guys and Nelson it seems you could save that money if needed. I don't see them ponying up the money and/or prospects for a big SP like Bum, Keuchel, or the other top guys supposedly available by trade.

Out getter attempter?

True, true. Good points. Yea I don't recall for sure but of course just got blown up in the playoffs-ish timeframe. I think your last point is really the key to it though, they knew they'd be facing criticisms and fans asking what's going on so they tried to create a narrative to inform that they are doing something different and get used to it. I'm sure we all had a bunch of casual fans through the year saying, why did they yank X guy with only 71 pitches after 5 innings. This was kind of them letting everyone know they're thinking outside the box. ETA: And good point below to their own guys as well that you and every out is important whenever you pitch.

I'm gonna say 23? I didn't run down a list and try to remember names or anything, just a quick guess.

Call me crazy but I hate the initial out getter phrase. Initial means the same as starting. Out getter means the same as pitcher. When the team started using it they were talking more along the one time through the order type of thing or starting a lefty to face a lefty then yanking, basically bullpen type days. Not for a guy who's starting on normal 5 days rest and hoping to go 5-6 innings/two times through the lineup until first sign of trouble. But now it's become a thing and people are gonna run with it.

I agree. they talked, nothing close. Giants leak info to try and drive price up or kick the market a bit. That's all it is to me.

Right, and notice they didn't sign/ complete a trade for any of them. Instead, he went out and got two impact bats last year. My guess is MadBum will be no different. Stearns probably does put a lower value on these guys than other GMs. That said, the reason Stearns is still interested in some of these guys is that they WOULD be an improvement even if they only go 5 innings. Also, some of that may be GM gamesmanship, and some of the rumors probably weren't true to start with. Right, they didn't pull the trigger but just being involved means they likely see the value in having a guy who can often go deeper and give everyone a rest. If you were only going to pitch Darvish 5 innings why would even consider paying him 15+ mil for 3+ years to even be in the discussion. I think we actually punted two games last year by having guys like Wilkerson start and just taking poundings (those 15+ run games where some hitters had to P). Being they know they'll be more trigger happy yanking early though might've led to them not valuing it enough to make the moves. I like that they have their price and stick to it rather than fall for these shenanigans though. Think of it this way, if you had a legit Kluber type ace 1/5 of the games it would allow to unleash bullpen fury the other days. Problem of course is Bum just isn't that level anymore. But there is a value in him or anyone (maybe Nelson or Burnes) being able to do that here and there to give the pen a break. I'm guessing that's what they're looking for, but so far haven't found a price they're willing to pay. And if they don't find it, they'll roll the same as last year and hope for some more SP innings due to in theory Burnes, Nelson, Davies, Anderson etc being better than the guys they had last year (or in Davies/Anderson cases just closer to their previous seasons). I haven't looked a the schedule yet but I hope there isn't another 24 straight game stretch like before the ASB and 17 straight stretch after on it again.

yes they will do similar to what they did in the regular season. Not what they did in September/October. They basically ran a traditional 5 man rotation for the whole year. But yes they always had the early yank due to the 3rd time through strategy. I defended it all year and explained to countless people. Also, it did kill the bullpen before the ASB and that brutal stretch almost cost them the playoffs. However, we don't know how flexible they'd be if someone could go longer when needed. I'm sure they'd love a few more 7 innings starts here and there to reduce the BP workload a touch. For example, Nelson the year before was in the older school model and they let him go. So, if we'd had him instead of the filler guys all year would they have rolled the dice with him more? We don't know. If they have a Bum used to go 6+ will they gamble a bit on his days? We don't know. I guess I'm just saying we know this is their overall strategy and I agree with it all. However, we don't know for sure how much they're completely tied to it or if they felt they had to do it that way based on the SPs they had last year, how flexible they'd be if they actually had better SPs? Like Burnes might be so good they use him a traditional-ish way where they at least try to go 6-7 but yank at first sign of issue (as opposed to other teams who only look at pitch count). Whereas last year your Mileys/Suters basically wouldn't even go out there. For example, if they didn't see the value in SPs I don't think we'd constantly hear them tied to the top SPs on the market the last couple years. Think of it this way, if you know you're going to use Bum like our other guys then there really isn't a value in acquiring him for the cost of prospects and paying that money. Same with Darvish, Arrieta, and all the other guys they've been linked to. Hope that makes sense, not sure if I laid it out well. Basically, if you're not going to use a SP in the traditional-ish way then you'd be stupid to pay the money for one.

He would be taken out to avoid going through the order the third time, has little to do with his bat. This is something everyone still seems to be struggling with. I get it, it's new and different. Brewers approach is to avoid having a pitcher face a lineup the 3rd time through whenever possible. We'll see more this in 2019, not less. They have more pitchers now that can go multiple innings out of the pen, and continue to add RP with options. TOR arm, pitchers that can go 7 innings, etc. is living in the past. That's not to say they wouldn't want MadBum, but they're not going to overpay for him, and if they get him they're not going to "workhorse" him. I get all that but haven't looked at his stats on 3rd time through. Someone above just posted it's drastic dropoff though so it likely would lead to them using him that way. When posting that I was looking at that of any guy on the rotation you could trust to go beyond it would be him, but maybe the stats don't support it. And again, in the regular season at times you're gonna want someone to eat those extra two innings to give the BP a break and a guy like him would seem more likely able to do it than our other guys. So, you factor in that you don't lose much in his ABs and his pedigree and he'd be the one to roll the dice on getting the long start to try and rest the pen. So I guess I'd just add that I think some are thinking the September/October strategy can be played all year and it really can't due to roster limitations. We saw what happened before the ASB. They're for sure going to continue to push the limits and blur the lines but you're going to kill your pen without some legit starts from people.

In 603 career PAs he has a wRC+ of 47. If you can't get that out of your PH options, there's a pretty likely reason you won't make it into the playoffs... We're less than a few months from releasing Schoop where we learned that there are always negative scenarios with any player performance, yet so many posters are sticking their head in the sand on Bumgarners performance trend (3, yes 3, years in the making - not last year) and hoping for him to return to his stud years... JosephC summed it up nicely above... Thank God Stearns learned a lesson from the Schoop debacle... And the reason we're leading the pack for Bumgarner is every other team is running away from his performance trend (even the big market teams that can afford to make a mistake)... I didn't say that he's better than the PH. I just meant he's a good hitter for a P. As we saw in the playoffs and they openly said to us, they factored all that into the pitching moves to reduce P ABs. In this case, he's not nearly as bad of a hitter as most Ps so was just saying there will be situations where they decide it's not needed to PH for him yet and therefore he goes 7 whereas idk Miley would've gone 5.

Keep in mind that Bum is such a good hitter so he might get that extra inning or two other guys don't get when the timing of his ABs work out because he doesn't need to be pinch hit for.

Right, and no one (or at least most) was saying Davies/Anderson alone, it was in addition to a legit prospect like Ray

Davis/Anderson make perfect sense even to replenish for a future window. The idea is that they'll do well in that pitchers park and you can trade for 2-3 other young pieces. So, all of a sudden Bum turns into Ray, one more minor leaguer from us, plus 2-4 more minor leaguers from re-trading Anderson later. So at least one higher tier guy in Ray plus 4 others would be the end result. I guess it's more of a gamble to bank on the re-trade but the risk/reward is there in my opinion.

no way I give up 5-6 years of those guys for one of him. Just no way. I mean, there is a very good chance Burnes outperforms him this year. I wouldn't predict it, but it could easily happen. If they're not understanding that he's regressed the last two years and that he's only under control for a year (and of course MKE can't resign) then you just move on. Ray, Davies/Anderson, and a lower level flyer type similar to what we got for Broxton is probably my max.

I think it's more of a case by case basis and negotiable for each person. Some work like that and others a one time list. Who knows on this specific one though unless someone can dig it up online somehow. Also, Bumgarner is originally form like the hills and mountain area of NC so likely wouldn't hate the midwest or be the type to only like California/FL, etc. I think he has rural hobbies. So most likely would be ok with WI in general.

I do similar, just fluff stuff on in the background. Others on Netflix would be Parks and Rec, New Girl, and Cheers. You'd be surprised how well Cheers holds up

Generally agree. Don't want to overpay or anything. That said, this seems like several other examples the last couple offseasons and deadlines where it's leaked in order to try and move up the price to get someone else to pay more than us. Just think of how many leaks have come out the last few years about us leading for this guy or that and we don't end up with the guy. Whereas Cain and Yelich were pretty much boom/done. Almost like the other teams just using MKE for leverage or something. But I like that we seem to stick to our guns rather than overpay after it happens.

Your last point stands about that if you're an IF who can hit they'll likely find a spot to play them which reduces this a touch. But for 1Bs or corner outfielders that have little flex it could factor. But I think it would be clear that a team would be more willing to trade from a position of organization depth than not. Is it the end all be all, of course not, but it definitely has to factor in. With the Brewers the last couple years they had a clear gut of OF and it would be foolish to not think that would lead to them viewing those guys as more expendable. And of course several of them have been traded.

A very common drink especially among women is a simple Vodka/water or Vodka/soda water. It actually makes sense, no calories and no sugar while getting water in the body which is obviously good while boozing.

Yes having LBJ out of the East will make it a heck of a playoffs to watch this year. Of course you still have GSW waiting for you but so be it, anything can happen then. An injury to just one of their stars makes them very beatable now since their depth isn't anything close to what it was a few years ago.

Someone like Davies or Anderson could make sense to be involved as well. Fits that ballpark well and could be good re-trade candidates if they put up good numbers.