MKE81

I hear what you're saying but there's also a difference knowing you need to go 6-7 innings vs throwing 15 pitches and calling it a night. He might be more clear-minded and relaxed in that type of role. He certainly abuses his fastball and slider during starts so why not do it in the pen. I'm not advocating him for one spot or the other as I think he's gone regardless soon enough so I don't really care. But to start the year I'd keep him in the rotation. If he scuffles I'd move him to the pen and try to build his value that way

Gray is far superior to Nelson. It's not even close. Gray has 3yrs of control and will be 29 in his final year when almost all our top prospects have filled out the lineup card. At that time Hader (26), Ortiz (24), Woodruff (26), Davies (26) will most likely take up 4 spots in the rotation and Bickford will be 24 if he pans out for a rotation spot. It's not as if all these dudes are young minor leaguers. Davies is already up. Hader is up this year, Woodruff most likely will be up by year's end. Ortiz will be in AAA at some point this year. These guys have had success at the upper levels already. If we already had an OF mixture of Braun, Santana, Brinson, Phillips, Cordell having success with the team on the brink of playoff contention then we could afford to trade from a position of strength (Ray) acquiring a guy like Gray. But that's not the case. Giving up Ray, a lefty with very good bat to ball skills who uses the entire field while also having 20HR power combined with plus speed and base running ability and good defense - along with Dubon (excellent bat to ball skills using entire field, 25+ SB speed, good defense from SS and even better from 2b with a solid arm from across the diamond) - along with Ponce (a contributor in some capacity, i think he ends up in the pen where he can hit 97-98 with 2 other average/above average pitches and solid control by that point). That's a lot of contributions for a long time we'd be giving up for 3yrs of Gray who won't be here for the playoff runs unless signed to an extension

The Packers defense has generally been middle of the road to very good with 1-2yrs of garbage. There were a massive amount of injuries on that side of the ball in the first half and during that awful 4 game losing stretch. My issue with capers is the lack of blitzing. We rarely have more than 4 guys rushing and that won't cut it when half of them are DTs. Capers blitzing percentage is surprising but it's because he runs a 3-4 and sends a 4th rusher so it counts as a blitz. But 4 doesn't accomplish much unless you're elite up front, which we aren't. I'd get rid of Burnett and have Randall/HaHa at safety. Need to find 2 quality starting CBs as I assume Shields is basically done. Hyde, Gunter, Rollins would be strong filling out the unit (Rollins can hybrid between both CB and safety). One final comment, it's disgusting watching our defensive unit tackle. For some reason they believe humans run with their torso instead of their legs. We almost never tackle the lower body. This would have prevented Dak from his rushing TD. It would prevent a lot of extra yards they give up because they allow the runner to continue to drive their legs. It's terrible coaching and I can't believe professionals get away with it and think it's acceptable

If you're suggesting that Lucroy alone would have netted Brinson and Ortiz I would have to disagree. Stearns has a stated preference not to package guys except when absolutely necessary. If we hypothetically had 2 offers from Texas, Option A being Lucroy for Brinson and Ortiz and Option B being Jeffress for Cordell, I'd be willing to bet the house that we would have taken Option A and declined B without hesitation. Jeffress was a necessary piece to get what we did. If I had to try to break the trade down in terms of who netted what even though it isn't really possible, I would say that Lucroy for Brinson and Cordell, and Jeffress for Ortiz is a lot closer to where the trade values lined up. One could argue Lucroy for Brinson (top 15) and Jeffress for Ortiz and Cordell. Lucroy to Indians brought back 4, which was depth over high quality and none were Top 100 even though Mejia slid in afterwards. Exchange an A ball catcher, 2 quality backups, pen arm for 1 elite 5 tool player who's a Top 15. Smith brought Bickford (ranked right by Ortiz) and Susac (ex-top 100 with MLB experience) and Jeffress has a better track record than Smith and was a closer. Regardless how you want to shake it down, in no way shape or form did Jeffress solely bring Cordell.

And Tommy John surgery. He was a 50 OFP prospect before surgery, maybe teetering into 55, with likely landing spot in the 45-50 range. Now that's all a question mark, and it is possible the Marlins knew about some structural issues before they traded him. The Melancon deal netted the Pirates two 45-ish guys, one who is a reliever and the other who likely will be. Joe Smith netted some random dude. Tyler Clippard netted someone whom the Diamondbacks thought highly enough of to lose on waivers shortly thereafter. Mike Montgomery basically netted Dan Vogelbach, who is a good bat but can't play in the NL. Jeffress basically netted Ryan Cordell. I've seen the term "nice haul" used a handful of times for what the insinuation was the Brewers would be expected to get for signing Feliz. Ignoring the fact that Feliz might not pitch well enough to be traded at all, if the above returns would be considered "nice hauls" - I'm willing to acknowledge the semantic difference and move on. Yes because nobody is coming back stronger and better after TJ these days. Paddack having a low-mid 90s fastball with a borderline plus-plus change makes him lethal. Nevermind the above average or better command he has or the potential average breaking ball added in the mix. All that apparently makes him below average - average according to you. His numbers in A ball as a 20yr old are outrageous. Anybody would drool over those numbers. 2009-2016 Feliz has had one bad year (2015) and the rest have been very good so not sure why you think the possibility of him not pitching well is this very real thing. Every pitcher can have an off-year. But there's nothing in his background to suggest it's a very real possibility he's not good in 2017, especially since he bounced back very well last year and improved his velocity up to 98 as the season went on. Thornburg netted Shaw, Dubon, Pennington. Smith netted Bickford, Susac. And somehow you believe our actual closer (Jeffress) who had the best track record of them all solely netted Cordell. Try again. Melancon netted (2) 45-ish players? Oh my. Rivero is a 25yr old with electric stuff and 5yrs of control. He's already had success at the MLB level having a 2.79 ERA in 48ip as a 23yr old then struggled first half last year before the trade and bounced back with a 3.29 ERA with Pitt and 12.8/9 K ratio. His stuff is legit and he'll be very good. The 2nd piece is a 22yr old who will start in A+ and profiles to a young Rivero (13/9 K rate last year in A). Smith is 4yrs older than Feliz and his WHIP, K rate is worse over career and the 1.5yrs prior to his trade his ERA jumped to 3.5-3.8 with large spike in WHIP and drop in K rate. If Feliz continues pitching the same as last year then how are they similar? Clippard netted Vicente Campos (Top 15 Yankees prospect) who pitched well across 3 levels and made his MLB debut at 23. Why did you leave out the part about him having surgery on his fractured ulnar requiring an 8 month recovery period? I'm sure it had nothing to do with why AZ tried to push him through waivers, right? Montgomery netted Volgelbach, who can't play in the NL except that he can. His range is below average but he fields what he touches - he's not going anywhere with Rizzo anyway. Good thing for him Seattle is in the AL so he has 2 positions now. He was rated just outside the Cubs Top 10 and is the future 1b/DH for Seattle making his MLB debut at the very end of last year. Seattle also netted Blackburn, 1st rd pick in 2012, who's gone level by level every year posting the same numbers as a starter (3.2 ERA). He'll be in AAA as a 23yr old this year. But you're right. All the returns on these trades are "light" and won't make a difference for any team. If you don't want the Brewers to sign Feliz because you don't like him or think there's better options out there, then fine. But your reasoning is illogical and your examples don't make any sense.

Eovaldi had a pretty big spike in HR rate last year too, which is probably why the Yankees released him. He throws hard, but that's about it - career K rate of 6.6/9. Might be worth seeing if he can pick up a couple of mph moving into the pen - if he can get to 98/99 out of the pen that would get interesting. Looks like he tried picking up a split-finger fastball last year as fangraphs has him throwing that pitch 22% of the time but not previously in his career. Maybe that's what wasn't working for him. Bullpen with fastball/slider would be intriguing; maybe Guerra can show him how to throw the splitter better. Eovaldi and the other pitcher I referenced, Henderson Alvarez, are both coming off of injury and I wouldn't sign either unless it was a multi-year deal. Eovaldi actually might not pitch in 2017 at all. Again, I'm looking for what might help the Brewers when they are ready to contend, not who will accumulate counting stats in a non-contending year. The Brewers first year for realistically contending would be 2019 if the rookies at that time perform rather solidly. But the players you're naming make ZERO sense. Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz, Davies, etc etc. The guys you're mentioning have been hit every single year. They give up more hits than IP and their K/9 aren't impressive. And they've had arm injuries on top of not producing. Why would you target that profile for our contending years...

Nope watched it 10 times now and still do not see an illegal hit. The fact you continue to say it was legal is entertaining. Plenty of people affiliated with the league or broadcast, who understand the rules, said it was an illegal hit. It's like you saying 2+2=5 and everyone saying no it's actually 4 while also citing the correct mathematical reasoning (i.e. Rule book in this case) then you continuing to say "no, it's 5, I did the math myself". And if any QB was destroyed in the midsection by the crown of the helmet there would be a flag 100% of the time. And being a Packers fan has absolutely nothing to do with anything. The DB, based on his angle to the play, was aware of where both the receiver and ball was and instead of drilling him full speed with his shoulder he made the decision to lead with the crown of his helmet. This wasn't a bang bang reaction play.

Nobody ever stated what Feliz's return could be other than both you guys saying Chris Paddack as best case scenario. The same Paddack who will have a plus fastball, plus to plus-plus change, average breaking ball and above average-plus command. Sounds terrible. Again, Rodney is 10yrs older than Feliz and has been a much worse and more inconsistent reliever since 2009. So how will the Rodney trade be the ideal comparison? The only stated reasoning has been because he's a FA after this year. So then using that logic if Holland, Romo, etc sign for a 1yr deal and pitch well then you can expect a Paddack return at best, right? I mean previous production seems to be irrelevant along with age. Again, Barnes and Knebel aren't experienced relievers and they have 6 and 5yrs of control. There's no logical reason to force them into the closer role right now. They'll get plenty of high leverage experience in the 7th and 8th innings with the occasional close opportunity. Feliz is a great move and hopefully he adds one more reliever

i refuse to believe Stearns only targeted Thames, Shaw, Ray, Diaz, Erceg because they swing lefty. When you're adding controllable talent it's a bonus if they're lefty to balance a lineup. If you're strictly targeting lefty hitters for 3b and 1b because you didn't do well in the HR dept then you're closing the door on many other options that could make more sense productivity wise. If they rated several players very similarly at a position I could see them going after the lefty because it's that added bonus and balances out the lineup moving forward. But they focus on talent, not left handed or right handed - simply talent. Similar story with the pen, he's not targeting folks who can be flipped. He's targeting folks who have proven track records of success to solidify the backend. If they get great offers for those guys then so be it. Otherwise you try to win games

Rodney is 10yrs older than Feliz and maybe you should compare their numbers over the past 8yrs and let us know which one is consistent and predictable.

The downside is the opportunity cost of not allowing a younger, controllable pitcher a shot at the closer's role in a year when having a closer won't be that important. I don't think that downside is worth the upside of whatever it is you may or may not get for Feliz in July. Disagree. The only young, controllable internal candidates for closing are Barnes, Knebel and Magnifico (who has 3IP in MLB so he's not even an option right now). Barnes (27ip in career) and Magnifico are controlled for 6yrs and Knebel (92ip in career) for 5yrs. If Feliz takes the closer role for 1yr then there's plenty of time for these guys to gain closer experience. Thornburg barely has half a season as a closer. These young guys need more experience to begin with before being put in the closer role so when you can add a talent like Feliz you take that opportunity

Huh? They're both SPs and FAs after this year I believe. By 2018 the Brewers will have Hader, Woodruff, Davies + possibly still Nelson, Chase, Guerra and others with Ortiz knocking on the door. What does adding Alvarez and Eovaldi do? They both give up more hits than IP and bring nothing to separate themselves over the others we already have moving forward. Regarding the pen, the Brewers have several younger pen arms and will add to that over the next few years with other guys coming through the system (including SPs converted to the pen)

But, Milwaukee will be on the hook for at least $4MM. And $6MM if they can't deal him (or have to send cash to deal him). That's a pretty substantial hurdle to get excess value out of. The Sneed and Rogers deals also need to thought of as one possible outcome of a trade - not all deals will work out that well. So it's not only getting a prospect (or prospects) worth more than what they're paying Feliz, it's having those guys also turn into valuable major leaguers. 4M means nothing to the Brewers. Neither does 6M. He's proved his entire career that when he's healthy he's very good. There's zero downside to this signing.

Sneed and Rogers didn't cost $6MM. They also won't provide critical production to a contender down the stretch and potentially in the playoffs - mainly because neither will have MLB careers to begin with. And Feliz will only cost a team 2M if traded at the break

But by you saying he's not "creating" value you're saying he's worth the same regardless of his performance. I disagree with that. He has a track record of being very effective. From 2009-2014 he threw 241.2ip, 151h, 92bb, 226k, 2.53 ERA. 2015 wasn't good. 2016 up until mid-Aug he posted 47.1ip, 31h, 16bb, 53k, 2.85 ERA (better H/9, BB/9, K/9 rates than first 6yrs of career). Then he was roughed up next half dozen outings and was shut down for the year so one can point to his arm issues affecting him as his H and BB rates sky rocketed along with his ERA. If he performs this year how he did last year (before injury) then that's another year of success added to his track record and another year of production removed from his bad 2015 showing a trend he's back to usual self thus creating more value for him. You don't need an Ortiz or Bickford in return to have a great trade. Sneed and Rogers brought back Villar and Broxton.

But why would you assume that? I don't like it either if that's the case, but coming back from surgery why would he have any negotiating power to demand something like that? I don't think anyone would even give him a one year deal at that price (let alone a two year deal with an opt-out option in his hand, he has to give something back to the signing team to demand something like that). Since 2014 he's pitched 44 innings of 3.27 ERA, 1.46 WHIP ball. It's a total crapshoot for someone to think he's going to come back this year and be the dominating closer he once was, which means no one's looking to pay him too much to see what he happens to do in 2017. If anything, a team is grabbing him to get a year under his belt and see how he does in 2018. And this is why a two year deal is appealing to him. While he won't get as much in 2017 on a 2 year deal as he might on a 1 year deal, he'll guarantee more total for himself in two years. With the opt-out, if he happens to do well this year he can bank in sooner than later and if he doesn't he's got another year to get paid and bounce back. But I don't expect a contract that's two years with an opt-out option to be more than 5mil or so per year. There's just no reason for any team to do anything more than that. A team like the Brewers can take on a contract that's like that and not worry if he flops. If he's doing well, you flip him this trade deadline (making the opt-out moot) and if he does poorly, you see if he bounces back better in his second year. Maybe I'm off on that, we'll see what kind of contract he actually ends up getting, but I think it's premature to think he's going to demand a contract that's too much to be worth it for a team in the Brewer's position. I just think year one back from Tommy John is too risky for a contender to pay him much on a one year deal hoping he would produce for them right away. Holland was reported to be asking 2/22

Thornburg was behind two controllable guys in Smith and Jeffress. Feliz is on a 1-year deal. It's just a wheel-spinning move.Has it been reported that it's a 1yr deal?

Knebel and Barnes have like 5-6yrs of control left. There's plenty of time to let them develop as closers but they need to get their feet wet in the 7th and 8th innings more. Feliz is talented and his numbers last year were more in line with his highly productive years. I'm hoping it's a 2yr deal. And how is there no value in signing him? He had one bad year (2015). He had a 2.85 ERA in mid-Aug last year then ran into arm issues and was shut down for the year a couple weeks later (and his ERA ballooned to 3.52 as a result). If he continues to bounce back to his 2010-2014 years, which he was doing last year, there's plenty of value in a player like him. The guy has a better, and longer, track record than Thornburg and Smith (clearly they had 3yrs of control left, which plays a factor) but only Jeffress had similar numbers to him but Feliz has a long track record there too

As a side note since we are pontificating the philosophical values held by the baseball operations staff, one thing that I would be intrigued to learn more about is what attributes the Brewers valued most highly when they acquired Keon Broxton? Broxton has the potential to be a significant scouting win for the Brewers, and I am curious to what extent they targeted him, and why exactly? Regarding Broxton I think it's pretty straight forward. The Brewers lacked a true CF (even though he can play all 3 spots) and he was blocked in Pitt. Provides good defense, solid arm, excellent speed tracking balls and stealing/running bases, 20HR pop with an average hit tool at worst plus he's young/cheap/controllable. He possesses the skills to succeed. Same thing with Villar. To a certain extent it's why Shaw and Susac were targeted as well. All these guys are (relatively) young, controllable and blocked, except Shaw but Panda might have taken 3b back this year anyway. They all had good results through the minors and need an opportunity to succeed at this level. And you don't have to give up much to find these types of guys (i.e. Rogers, Sneed). You just need to be in a position to provide an opportunity for them to put it all together

It's relatively simple. The Brewers aren't competing for the playoffs this year or next and Holland wouldn't block anybody's pen spot. Regardless of a 1 or 2yr deal (with opt-out) if he's performing even remotely close to his old self then he's dealt at the break this year (and whoever acquires him would do so with the same expectations regardless - he's a FA after the season). Even if it takes him a year to get back to his old self he'll still be halfway decent this year and can be traded the 2nd year. If he doesn't perform in the first half, to the point he brings a halfway decent trade, and does perform in the 2nd half then opts-out then at least you'll get a pretty quality season from a reliever at that point, just won't benefit from adding prospects. Worst case he's here for 2yrs being halfway decent and no prospects come of it. Fine, not everyone needs to be flipped. He's absolutely worth the risk right now. In 2-3yrs he might not be but right now he is regardless of how the contract is structured

Pagan made 30M the past 3yrs. Kirk is making 900k this year. The OF is already set and Brinson is on the brink of making his way up followed by Cordell and that doesn't include Reed as a potential backup. There are plenty of backup OFs north and south of 30yrs old I'd rather have than Kirk, including Pagan, but factoring in comp and the OF situation there's no logical reasoning to bring a veteran on right now to try to flip as that requires starter ABs. Additionally, Pagan played 4 games in CF last year because they acquired Span as the starter shifting him to LF. The Giants have been a strong defensive team for a while now, that's a major focus for them, and Pagan's been a part of that the past 5yrs. Saying he's not good defensively, while solely citing (defensive) WAR, is outrageous.

The return for Dozier hasn't been there for the same reason the Dodgers aren't adding another Top 10-15 to De Leon - because he isn't worth it, even with 2/15 left. He's a good defender, will hit 25HR and will steal some bases. His hit tool and on-base skills aren't close to being good. Moving forward he's most likely going to repeat his 2013-15 seasons so nobody's giving up multiple great prospects for him unless they're desperate (injuries, etc). This year was a fluke in the power department. Would you give up De Leon + #5/7/14 in system for 2yrs (granted cheap) of a 30-31yr old 2b that would move from one of the best hitters parks (overall, not just for right handed power) to one of the worst, which favors lefty power over righty power and is terrible for walks? 49% of his career HR came at Target. Last year like 75% of his HR came at HR friendly parks. We're talking about a guy who, prior to last year, had a slash line of 242/317/750 over the prior 3yrs while playing good defense and that guy would be now moving to a bottom 7 hitters park. That's why the Dodgers aren't giving up 2 great prospects for him. For reference, the past 3yrs Scooter has put up around 270/314/715 playing average at best defense. Clearly Dozier is better but you should get the point I'm making. In the meantime, Braun - who has half the WAR of Dozier the past 3yrs, is 4yrs older, makes 5M more in one season than Dozier would over those 2yrs total, has a PED history, has injury issues in recent past - was bringing back a 26yr old who already proved twice that he's an elite talent + 2 prospects who no doubt would be solid as they'd fit the mold of what Stearns is trying to accomplish. Tell me again about this precious WAR everyone drools over and how Braun's contract, injuries and PED history are all major barriers because "MLB Trade rumors" says so...please, someone enlighten me (and by that I mean don't). Braun's biggest trade barrier has been, and will continue to be, his small list of teams he's comfortable going to. Villar, right now, could definitely bring back De Leon + 1 very good prospect IF the Dodgers believe he'll produce similar results moving forward. He's 26 with 4yrs of control, very cheap, will be just as good as Dozier at 2b but with better range and arm, better hit tool and on-base skills, 60SB speed, 20HR potential and is a switch hitter with defensive versatility (3 IF spots). Literally the only thing Dozier has on him is more power. And for right now he's a proven better defender at 2b but Villar will open eyes this year. He shouldn't be traded for another 1-1.5yrs unless an offer is there this deadline - his peak value will be at that time, which will align perfectly for Dubon stepping in and the Brewers hopefully adding both MLB ready top prospects, like a De Leon, and those adding great depth in the system. The Brewers and Dodgers no doubt had conversations after the season and Braun still makes the most sense there. But LA has renewed confidence in Puig due to his turn around in performance at season's end and his maturation as a person. Therefore they might not even want to part with him, but if they do they're valuing him even higher now so the quality of those 2 prospects coming back could be lower.

Rizzo won a Gold Glove this year. Bryant and Zobrist are plenty fine and versatile. Russell is very good. Heyward is great. Fowler being mediocre at best is not even close to accurate (you probably think Braun sucks on defense). Baez is very good. As a team they're strong on that side of the ball. Sure they're going to make mistakes, largely due to their age (half of them are crazy young still), but speaking as though they're overrated and the pitching is why they excel is absurd. Pitchers pitch to the hitters weakness AND to the strength of their defense.

Speed on the defensive side of the ball will translate to the bases for sure. But it takes more than speed to be a good base runner. It takes intelligence and instincts - those being more important than speed itself but when you combine those with speed you can create an absurd amount of scoring opportunities for your team. We all know, or should know, that you can't solely focus on defense while ignoring a player's offensive tools given whoever scores the most runs wins. BUT, it starts with defense. Stearns hasn't acquired one player that can't play at least average on the defensive side. He's building a foundation with prospects that have average to plus potential for all 5 tools (for the most part as a player here or there might be below average in one tool) and mixing in lefties with righties. Ray, Diaz, Erceg, Clark to go along with Phillips (Melvin). At the MLB level he brought on Villar (switch hitter), Shaw (no speed), Thames (speed for a 1b). Then factor in the righties with Broxton, Brinson, Cordell, Dubon (no power) to go along with Santana (Melvin). The only position he seems to have defense take a backseat is catching as Susac, Pina, Nottingham all have better hit tools than defense but their defense projects to be average. Bandy is the opposite but has raw power potential. Personally, I'm on board with this for catchers as I don't want a Maldy type as the starter.

I've said it too many times on here how people ignore the defensive side of the ball far too often. Great defensive teams don't require a great rotation/pen. They shrink the field and allow their pitchers to attack hitters so they can go to work. It's why Stearns has targeted CFs and SSs - they cover the most ground, are athletic and have strong arms. They have a skill set that allows for versatility. Even guys like Shaw, while he has areas he needs to improve and wasn't a "sexy" acquisition, he'll hit for a decent BA/OBP with 20HR+ and play very good defense at a position that was needed. Dubon doesn't hit for power but he does everything else well. Brinson, Cordell, Ray, Diaz (2b), Erceg all play above average or better defensively with power and speed. As does Phillips. He targets specific profiles that lend to versatility allowing for better, more skilled athletes to be on the field at the same time