TJseven7

Probably a narrative from when Boston started splitting up his playing time in the 2h of the season where he fell apart. If he truly believes this, he's looking for a scapegoat.

It's looking inflated right now. If that holds up and those guys get huge money it'll help a few extra bargains slip through.

Why is that too much to ask: Moose 33 16 mil, 34 16 mil. That's well past his prime. It's not impossible that he lives up to it, but we just had him for 4 mil for half of 18 and 10 mil for 19. Why is he now worth 16 million at an older age and well beyond his prime by the time it ends? Grandal 33 18 mil, 34 18 mil. Will he even catch in the last 2 years of that deal? That drives his value completely. 50% catcher is about all you can hope for 2 years from now. He was worth 18/1 with ZERO long term risk to us at age 30. 18 mil with 4 years of aging is not the same value. I don't lament the deals they were given. I also wouldn't want those deals in MKE. My friend is a CWS fan. I told him for his team, being an AL team who has the DH, and a ton of young prospects who are growing in cheap, that he'll be worth it for 2 years and then he'll be a bit overpaid and playing 1b or DH half of the time. He agreed and said if he was a Brewers fan in the NL he wouldn't have matched that number. On Moose simply put, the number is too high. He's a very good player. The number is too high. It like Grandal, has a chance to age poorly. If you wanted to spend 34 mil on 2 guys and go full steam ahead for 3 years then that's your choice. 2023 would have been a rebuild year if they did that. I trust the GM to manage the numbers of the situation well and give this team a shot in each of the next 3 years. Specifically 2021 and 2022. That's a shot to win it all. AND do it without leaving the team in a position where it has to wait for old cap to tick off. Basically saying. If you give Moose and Grandal 4 year deals at 34 mil. What happens in 3 years when Yelich's deal expires. That's right, our chance of keeping him went from low to NONE. You are attaching a face and a name to these players. DS doesn't do that. He never wanted Moose or Grandal. He saw value in the numbers they produce vs the $ and risk it took to get them. The $ and risk has gone up dramatically. Due to that they are no longer a buy. He will buy new production that is a value with low risk. This is the same deal as Wheeler. 23.5/3 is much much easier to say yes to than 23.5/5. Risk, Money, Value all play a part. Example Davies. He's hated by some here but he's been a solid pitcher for MKE. 3.9-4.0 roughly. 5-6 mil this year. 6-8 mil next year. If we sign another 4.0 era pitcher for 8/2 his value was at max 5 mil. For that we get Lauer. No brainer.

I want all 3 in the pen badly. Think about the mix of Woodruff RH heavy FB to odd duck Suter. That'll mess you up. I'd love to see Lauer start in the early season Chase Anderson role. Peralta, I see as a no brainer in the pen. Yes, I want 3 FA starters. Nothing big name but 3. While most people point to this new 3 batter minimum rule as a problem, I only see that as a problem for Loogeys. It's far more interesting that NL teams gained an extra PH. More reason (easier) to super pen with double switches that put a guy in for multiple innings. I only want MKE to have 2-3 traditional relievers. Suter Lauer Peralta Hader are a great start to 5-6 multi inning guys.

Kendrick at 6 mil a year for 2 years doesn't kill your franchise if/when he slows down. 300 AB platooned with a Thames isn't a big ask for a guy who has hit over 300 his last 1100 AB 33 34 and 35. He also doesn't strike out, and has had an OBP around 365. He's also long term proven. But to make this clear: No one disagreeing with you is allowed to say this, "but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever." But you are allowed to say this: "Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?" His last 3 years but that's beside the point. What you are doing is not a discussion. You are kicking what you wanted to happen until its a horse skeleton. See you want PROVEN but when you see PROVEN you spit on it and assume they'll fall flat. When someone proposes something and says upside, well that's not PROVEN. You wanted what you wanted. You wanted Moose back so you are pushing everything aside to fit that narrative. You're making up ideas that DS was caught off guard or napping. In summation, don't ask for anyone to present logical possible options to you. You don't want them. You want what you want.

I don't think anyone expects the offense to be better. Granted replacing half a year of Shaw Perez and Aguilar with just about anyone should be an assumed upgrade. You could easily end up seeing Kendricks and Thames at 1b. Could come in at 6/2 and 4/2. That's lethal at 1b. You should see Urias instead of Perez Spang Saladino and Dubon. Losing Moose is going to hurt. Losing Grandal is going to hurt. That's a given and short of Rendon, the offense won't get better via FA. There are a lot of ABs that can be improved by an offense that's solid throughout. That'll lessen the impact of the 2 AS bats leaving. Don't overlook the fact that this team had some serious black holes last year. Those guys drag down the AS bats. There has to be stability with this pitching staff. End of discussion. That also doesn't take a Stras. Woodruff Houser and 3 guys throwing 4 ERA ball would do the trick. We overlook how much damage Peralta Burnes Chacin starting did to this team early season and how every single guy they tried in the pen flamed out until Pom was brought in and Suter came back. The year before nearly every single guy they rotated in was solid. Metric based teams wilt when when they have to offset black holes. 2020 will be better if they avoid them. They did this much better in 2018 and it didn't take anything special, or big name, and plenty of them were not close to proven. So to bring it back home. This is exactly why I don't want Wheeler at a deal like this. The long term risk is huge. You are paying for the upside. This team needs role players who won't sink the season more than it needs headliners. 2018 showed us that is the truth of the situation.

Go back and look at the fierce offense we had in 2018. It was not impressive. It had no Grandal. It didn't have Moose until the deadline. Shaw was playing well but 2b wasn't Hiura. Grandal and Moose were needed to save the rotation from their youth last year. Then the pen got shook by Knebel. It never settled in until Houser Lyles and Pom stabilized it towards the end. We obviously can't go into the season without a 1b or with Arcia at 3b. I highly doubt that's what they'll do and it doesn't take a big signing to replace Villar/Perez/Sogards 2b production at 3b. It doesn't take a big signing to replace Aguilar and Thames, they weren't big signings themselves. 2018 was about stability. 2019 had a complete lack of stability. This team can win a lot of games and go a long way on merely bringing back stability. Absolutely. Yelich will be Yelich. Braun is Braun. Urias will be an upgrade at SS. Hiura up all season is an upgrade at second base. Cain will at the least do what he did this year, but will most likely rebound SOME. So essentially, we’ve upgraded two positions, will see improvement from one, and downgraded at catcher. Starting pitching, we are about even with Lauer brought in. At this point, I would say they are sitting pretty good. The offseason has been pretty successful to this point. Oh, and all of this has been done while also trimming $55 million in payroll to be put towards other upgrades, which I’m sure will include “proven” talent being brought in. It's almost as if people don't remember that Woodruff Burnes Peralta Hader mowing down 5 innings was a huge reason why the 2018 team almost pulled it off. It's exactly why I want 3 middle of the road arms. Pineda Miley Lyles puts Burnes in AAA. Peralta Lauer and Suter comfortably in the pen. Need the 8 9 to let Hader roam. Await Burnes and Rasmussen. The offense basically needs a Vogt, 2 Neil Walkers and a Thames LH masher. Not bank breaking additions. Just looking at MLBTR, Kendrick would be a fantastic fit at 1b.

Sure, but the same could be said for everyone who immediately piles on with the "...it's only December 4th, you need to relax!" anytime someone expresses concern about slashing payroll. The Pot rarely realizes it's also black.

It's the pouncing on everyone who has an opinion that's not his.

Go back and look at the fierce offense we had in 2018. It was not impressive. It had no Grandal. It didn't have Moose until the deadline. Shaw was playing well but 2b wasn't Hiura. Grandal and Moose were needed to save the rotation from their youth last year. Then the pen got shook by Knebel. It never settled in until Houser Lyles and Pom stabilized it towards the end. We obviously can't go into the season without a 1b or with Arcia at 3b. I highly doubt that's what they'll do and it doesn't take a big signing to replace Villar/Perez/Sogards 2b production at 3b. It doesn't take a big signing to replace Aguilar and Thames, they weren't big signings themselves. 2018 was about stability. 2019 had a complete lack of stability. This team can win a lot of games and go a long way on merely bringing back stability.

Definite "stud" arms right there! They would lead them to the World Series...one of the most feared rotations in all of baseball. Stearns must be waiting for the "blow out sale"...Everything must go! no reasonable offer refused! Can they throw 4.0 ERAs? Can they get through the batting order 2 times in the playoffs? That's truly all you need. Team ERA was 4.4 last year. We need it around 3.8. Woodruff and the pen should drop it from the 4 ERA we NEED from the starting 2-5.

2018, 1 game from the WS. Didn't add Moose until mid season. Didn't have Pom or Grandal. This team can be better in many areas that aren't as expensive.

They did, when they saw Yelich available and cost controlled. MKE has half the budget of some of the massive buyers. A guy like Stras is 20% of their payroll. It's 10% to the big spenders. That's a big difference and MKE should always avoid that.

It doesn't matter if they spend fast or slow. In every single pro league teams spend out and bargains are there to be had. Money dries up, homes fill up. Guys miss out. The early deals have come in hotter/higher than expected. That's a good thing for MKE. Every overpaid contract takes more money from the combined buying pool.

I'd be swearing up a storm if we signed this deal with him. 23.6 mil. 5 years MKE could sign Kuechel and Pineda/Miley for the same amount if MLBTR is close and they wouldn't have to give a 4th year to anyone. Give me 2 of Pineda/Miley/Teheran and add in Lyles for that money Wheeler has incredible potential. He's 29 and dealt with injuries. You want to risk him til 34? No thank you. Even if he has a few 3.5 years in there. No thank you.

I don't see why people seem to be in 2 camps. Rebuild and All in? There are more options. I want them to spend responsibly and add a lot of small pieces who their metrics see upside in. Not committ long term to anyone that isn't a superstar and if this is a lull year so be it. There are a lot of questions with this team and 2021 2022 have to be the all in years. Keeping Yelich south of 40mil a year seems nearly impossible. The thing people don't seem to get is that this team hasn't gotten from year 1 of DS to here by signing big name FAs. They've got to this point by winning trades and signing guys who we look at like they are scraps and then they become regulars right before our eyes. Thames Aguilar were cast-offs. Shaw prospect glow was fading. Miley was laughed about when they added him. Chacin wasn't expected to put up 3.5. Jeffress was sub 2 mil and a beast. All of it is short lived, but DS seems to be able to see the guy who is a small tinker away from a career year. So do that, develop the farm, and pay short term FAs who are about to be much more valuable than anyone thought. You'll hit some, you'll miss some but if you play the numbers game it should settle out in your favor. It was wildly successful in 2018 and fell flat in 2019. They still made the playoffs with deadline additions that people complained about. Wash Rinse Repeat. People look at this the wrong way. Awe we lost Grandal and Moose. The real story is how in the heck did we get them on 1 year deals in the first place? Both got 4 year deals that look murky 2 years down the road. They didn't give up a lot for Pom and Black. They didn't give up much for Swarzak. Then he got paid, oops! Embrace being that franchise that scoops up the overlooked and watches them earn a deal that commits to them far too long. The rest of the league can jump on the grenade 2 years into the future. We got the 1 year value contract. I play in some fairly deep FF leagues. I've had years where I go all in. I've had years where I sell off playoff guys while adding in low value expiring guys as I try to win but build forward. I've had years where I blow it up, or blow half of it up and rest the core/spending structure of the team. There are many angles in a simple dynasty FF league, I'm sure their analytics have found many more in something as dynamic as a MLB franchise. But it's truly not that different. It's just far more important to far more people. I enjoy watching guys I bought for $1/1 going back to auction the next year and getting paid $60/3. DS seems to be fantastic at that, play to your strengths. Maybe it only looks that way because he does it in such high volume, but either way its paying off.

I don't understand why anyone thinks we will spend on big ticket players. It's not how this franchise has gone about their business. Let's sign Rendon to a 7 years at 35 mil a year Strasburg to 6 years and 30 mil a year. Does that make this team a title contender? After Strasburg and Woodruff we have what exactly? Yelich Rendon Hiura are filthy. Then what? Since DS started this team hasn't drafted amazingly well. This team hasn't signed anyone long term bigger than Cain. He's been league champion of 1 year wonders. Those are the filler piece non-needle movers that allow the stars to win games. 1b, Thames out of Korea, Aguilar who "couldn't play 1b" off the WW. Choi came through here as well for nothing. Chacin for 1 star year. Miley. Lyles for the 2nd half this year. Gio. Filler is what this guy does best. Grabbing value and being patient comes in a close 2nd. The patient part didn't take as long as you'd expect because for the most part he's doing it properly and squeezing blood out of stones. All these guys mean next to nothing. Jimmy is a shame. Guerra at 4 mil after being worked hard. Claudio was worked hard and now has to face 3 batters as a loogy. Shaw cost 4.6 mil and was a disaster all year. DS has shown the ability to scrap heap a non disaster for less than 5 mil. Saladino, not even a discussion. Cheap filler is what this guy does best. I'm not worried about him rounding out the roster at all and I don't see this team plunging into big additions via FA. Keep buying guys on 1 year deals with a TO for a 2nd who have fallen through the cracks. Round out the team with those. Build a pitching staff 12 options deep and don't lead the year off with kids who might not be ready. 2018 this team was closer to a title than last year. C Pina and Kratz (see they've done it without Grandal) 1b Thames plucked from Korea and Aguilar off the scrap heap 2b Villar Perez Schoop (Hiura is a huge upgrade) SS Arcia was bad then too 3B Shaw playing his best (cancels out Hiura) OF Braun (same) OF Cain (hopefully the same) OF Yelich has improved Traded in Moose Why was that team good? Rotation stability Chacin Anderson/Woodruff Guerra/Peralta Suter/Miley Davies Gio Everyone in the pen was sub 4. With studs to wipe out endings. None of these guys are world beaters. None of the positions we are missing from 2018 are needle moving talent. They were buy low upside options throughout. Last year it all went wrong. 2018 it all went right. The reality will fall in the middle. Those pieces seem to be easy for DS to find. There's no reason to worry, nor any reason to pay TOP flight FA prices. It's not what MKE does. It's not what MKE should do. Start the year trusting Woodruff and Houser in the rotation. Peralta Suter in the pen. Add 3 guys who are exactly that, GUYS, like Lyles Miley Chacin types who can have a year and sit sub 4. Have Lauer, Burnes, Suter, Peralta and AAA guys we can stash in the event the vets don't pan out. Continue looking to build the super-pen model (We should all be excited about the prospects of Small Kelly and Rasmussen in the pen if they don't make it as a starter) and get Hader the heck out of the closer role. I'd rather pay 24 mil on 3 guys on 1 year deals who could have a great year then spend 30 million on a guy who we need to have a good year for the next 6 years. Play the odds, it's what metrics teams on a budget do.

Congrats Drew. It's a bad idea to pay relievers big money. Glad we typically don't.

Yes. Although he doesn’t seem like the prototypical leadoff hitter in that he doesn’t steal bases well. That’s OK in today’s Baseball of course... He runs well enough to round the bases with Yelich Hiura batting behind him. We need a 360+ OBP up there. Cain's down year was devastating to the offense.

I'm a Davies defender. 2 years of him in Arby 2 and 3 for 5 years of control on Lauer who has showed solid results to this point. I take the control every time straight up. I was very excited to see the rise of Grisham. I wanted him to take over for Braun in 2021. I trade him for a middle infielder with Urias' upside without hesitation. Straight up. We won this deal on value by a mile. They won 2019 production. Maybe even 2020 production too. Value was MKE by a mile. LF only OFs have to be very special offensively to avoid being dime a dozen. I'm excited about Urias' slash numbers. Great hit tool grade, great MiLB average. WALKS! 280/360 would be a great guy to put in front of Yelich Hiura if Cain doesn't rebound. Even last year when he got half a year, he struggled but his OBP was still higher than Arcia's any year in the majors. The potential worth of Urias is much much higher than Grisham's. I'm also hopeful that Milwaukee plays this as lull year. Don't spend big. Wait for a cool market (many say this one shows early signs of being hot). There are so many issues to figure out that plunging ahead would be a bit reckless. They have 1 starter in Woodruff and 3 guys that they are sorting out in Houser, Burnes, Lauer. Freddy and Suter also are looking for their role on this team. Shaw is either dead in the water or it was a strange 1 year flop. Lose Grandal. Moose a FA. Braun's garbage deal still on the books. Cain concerns in regards to the thumb. Knebel's return. Lots of questions. On top of that Urias looks like another 2b more than anything else. Can Hiura's glove stay there is yet another question. A lot of people are compelled to keep him at 2b because of the value of it. Understood, but if the defense is killing his offensive value and LF makes his defense a wash, he's still a 4-5 WAR bat in LF. That's pretty special. I want them to position for 2021 and 2022. 2020 is far too up in the air. This deal pulls value and positions the team for 2021 better. I love that. This team values the middle. C 2b SS CF. I agree with that. LF who burst on the scene for a top 20 2b/SS prospect who is still insanely young. Easy trade. Take the value.

I love when we do this. Give up Scooter at 26 and watch him have the best 2 years of his career. Trade Villar as scrap at 27 and watch him pop off 4 WAR. Trade Escobar at 23 and watch 2 of his next 4 years be pretty good. Trade Segura at 26 and watch him blow up. Now we want to non-tender Arcia? Why? So we can have a thread about getting him back 2 years from now when he's in his prime years? Can we sell high on one of these guys? Please? Be patient and sell high on ONE. This decade? As for Villar, he's a 200K guy. The metrics we use do not like that one bit. Throw everything else out. This team can not survive high K rates at positions that produce moderate offensive output.

Sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine. The player has to actually have the talent to belong in the league. Players are pawns. The manager/coach needs to do 1 thing. Put his players in position to succeed. If a guys missing every 3 but the play keeps dictating that he shoots it because he's open or if the pitcher can't throw a strike, or if the RT can't block his man and you keep letting him get run over solo. Do you just leave them in that and go well, "I don't throw the ball or shoot or block." No, you alter. You make decisions. IT'S ALL YOU DO! CC decided to let a guy who was off continue. Hader isn't going to pull himself. Yes Hader sucked tonight. Why was he still in when he couldn't execute? When Hader is on you see 2 electric innings that set down 6 guys in effortless fashion. When he's struggling with FB control and has no SL you'd have to be a moron to hang your season on that. I don't care who the pitcher is. If Woodruff walked the first 3 guys, do you just let him get blasted for 10 run and blame him? The coach/manger has a job to do as well. Part of that is saving players from themselves when they aren't on.

This also made zero sense. I know our bench wasn't looking overly strong but OA is not a guy you want up down 1 in the final inning.-

Nobody said Hader didn't give it up tonight, quite the opposite. Claiming he is finished is just childish IMO. I'll take that stand. CC didn't see what 90% of us did. You don't leave him out there when he has absolutely no slider and terrible FB control. He was off. It happens. Correct for that. CC didn't. I blame the manager. We are all over analytics and new numbers blah blah blah. I'm sure those numbers can figure out that leaving a wild pitcher in with the bases loaded is a bad idea for a number of reasons. He shouldn't have faced Rendon. He couldn't locate a FB and had no slider.