monty57

This has been discussed quite a bit on here over the years. The Brewers are a limited partnership, so the ownership group gets their share of the profits and losses passed through to their personal taxes. These aren't public, so no one knows, but I'd guess that they run it with fairly thin profit margins every year, not wanting too much taxable income passed through, but not wanting to dig into their own pockets (or take out a loan against the franchise) to pay the expenses. Most of these owners are in it for the long-term equity and the thrill of being an owner, not for more taxable income in the current year. Attanasio and the rest of the ownership group have been open to raising the payroll when they think it will be a meaningful pick-up, and I'd guess McCutcheon was that guy this year. His $8.5M probably made them a little uneasy, as it pushed them around $10M over their previous record high opening day salary, and the lowered attendance numbers this year probably aren't helping that any. Axios says they're down around 13.4% year-on-year as of July 19. So, as far as the future consequences go, if they lose money this year, they either have to take a loan, which will add to future expenses (therefore potentially reducing future payrolls) as the loan is paid off, or they pay the money out of their own pockets which may make them less amenable to bumping up payroll in the future. I'm not "crying poor." These are all fairly wealthy individuals, but they do have to make sensible financial decisions. It wouldn't take too many foolish decisions to really hurt the Brewers. Thankfully, I think this is an area in which Attanasio is really smart. I believe that he'll keep payroll competitive while not risking the future of the franchise, and in the rare occasions in which the Brewers lowered payroll, they bought the Carolina team, and refurbished the Arizona facility and the food courts at then Miller Park, all of which should be good long-term investments for the team. I'm sure Mr. Lauer doesn't bother himself with any of this. He's a bit discouraged right now, but I'd prefer he show his emotions by shutting out the Dodgers. Either way, he will be one of the guys traded away in the not-too-distant future (this offseason or next) in order for the Brewers to continue their attempt at building a "continually competitive" team, not only for this year, but for the coming years as well. He won't be a Brewer then, but I will still be a fan, so I hope they continue to think of both the present and the future in the aggregate moves they make.

Other than "who gets a bigger paycheck," Hiura has beaten McCutchen in pretty much any way someone could look at it... except for hitting vs LHP, which is the primary time Hiura has been used. Thankfully, he's starting to look a little better in that regard as well. I don't know who made the call (Counsell, Attanasio, or Stearns), but it seems obvious that when McCutcheon was signed, he was cemented into the middle of the order every day. I get why he was signed, I think that Hiura surprised everyone by actually hitting this year, and that has caused the stir.

I think it's healthy for people to disagree. When it becomes unhealthy is when they decide to air grievances publicly rather than keeping it in-house. If a teammate getting traded gets a player so demoralized that they forget how to play winning baseball, then how in the heck did they make it to the MLB? As I said, the team has to run itself within their limitations. The small-market Brewers always have to consider the future. They added Rogers, who has been better than Hader since the trade, so they weren't giving up on the year, and they saved enough money by trading Hader that they will be able to hold onto guys like Lauer into next season. Take emotions out of it, and the trade makes a lot of sense. I guess it's easy to throw stones when your "glass house" is secure, but it's generally better for the players to let management do their job and vice versa. Stearns and Attanasio have done a pretty good job of putting together winning baseball teams in Milwaukee. A far better job than I assume would have been done had we had Lauer as our GM.

Don't you need to have 13 pitchers and 13 hitters? I don't think you can add Peterson and drop a pitcher. It will be interesting to see what they'll do. I would assume Davis is gone when/if Frelick is added. They have been horrible against LHP, so I would think that they'd keep Brosseau up. Jopal makes a good point about Urias, and I wouldn't be opposed to him getting demoted. It would just be a shock to see it. It would certainly send a message that performance matters. In my opinion, Urias needs to change his approach. He swings for the fences on every pitch, and I think that limits him as a player. I think he'd be much better off sacrificing a few HR for a higher BA/OBP, but he's not going to do that with a guaranteed starting job. He'd likely only do it if he knows his chance to be on a MLB roster depend on it. That said, I would guess that Hiura will be the odd man out. They've shown that he's not going to get any type of regular playing time, so that's probably not going to change.

But he could just sit McCutchen, because Hiura has been better than McCutchen. McCutchen (DH) + Taylor/Davis probably is > Hiura (DH) + McCutchen (CF), but Hiura (DH) + Taylor/Davis (CF) probably is > McCutchen (DH) + Taylor/Davis (CF) It's the belief that McCutchen must play that is clouding things up. I think that cementing McCutchen into the 3/4 spot in the lineup has hurt the team this season.

No, he should shut up and do his job. I expect players to try to get as much money for playing baseball as they can, but in doing so, they shouldn't complain when teams make moves for financial reasons. Like any business, the Brewers have a budget. Lauer and the other players choose to be part of a union, and that union signed a CBA that includes the pre-arby/arby pay structure. A small market team like the Brewers has to take advantage of that, and oftentimes that means trading away expensive guys who are nearing free agency for inexpensive guys with a lot of team control. If anyone is upset about the Brewers trading away Hader, they are going to be furious over the next couple of offseasons as Burnes, Woodruff, Adames, Lauer, Houser and others are traded away for young players. But, after decades of bad Brewer baseball, I'm glad we have competent management that understands how to run the team and has the fans expecting playoff-caliber baseball year-in and year-out. The only way to get that is to run the team with a long-term plan like any other business, not by cow-towing to a whiny player or by listening to the media. I don't really care if Lauer doesn't like it, as he won't be a Brewer more than another year, and any fan that gets upset by it should probably consider moving their fanhood to a big market team. Teams like the Brewers have to run themselves this way.

Well, Lauer was kind of on the other end of that deal once, when the Brewers traded for him and Urias. Since then, the "go for it" Padres (who also added massively to their payroll) have been 184-162, while the Brewers have went 188-154. Maybe if Lauer and other Brewer players had worried more about playing baseball over the past few weeks instead of worrying about what the team was doing with their overpriced closer, they wouldn't have blown a first place lead and put themselves into the position of being "outside looking in" in the playoff race. Ironically, one of the reasons Hader had to be traded was that Lauer is part of the group of arby-eligible players whose raises are forcing the Brewers' hands. There is no way that Lauer and others were going to take a discount next year in order to allow the team to stay under payroll, so they shouldn't gripe too loudly when the team has to make financial decisions. Lauer may not care about the Brewer future, because he'll take the biggest paycheck he can get and leave town when he gets the chance. The team can't be quite so cavalier about the future.

There is such a small sample size for relievers in a trade deadline deal, that almost anything can happen. That's why I figured Rogers was about as likely to outperform Hader in 20 or so innings as Hader was to outperform Rogers. I saw the trade as one year of Hader for six years each of Gasser and Ruiz, plus an additional $15M or so freed up on next year's payroll. I was fine with that at the time of the trade, and am still fine with it today. If the Brewers are to win the trade, I hope it's more because Gasser and Ruiz do well than it is because Hader falters. The only reason I'm glad Hader is struggling is because the Brewers are currently chasing the Padres in the Wild Card hunt, so each Hader blown save is another half game for the Brewers.

To Brock's point, we don't know what to expect in immediate returns. He could hit the ground running, or he could falter a bit. Baseball is a long-term game that is often viewed through a short-term scope. I don't follow prospects as much as some here do, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but to me Frelick looks like he should be a good-but-not-great defender with great bat-to-ball skills that should lead to high BA/OBP with limited power. I think the Brewers are in desperate need of players like him on the roster, so I'll be happy when he's up, but as fans we need to keep our emotions in check a bit as he settles himself onto the MLB stage.

RE: the "service time" conversation going on. Every day in the majors counts as a day of service time, but at this point it doesn't really matter because there aren't enough days left to count as a full year of service time for Frelick. The Brewers will still have him for six seasons of "team control" whether they bring him up today or next week. The August 23/24 date is the date where he can come up and still maintain rookie eligibility next year. If he has rookie eligibility next year, and he is on the opening day roster, the Brewers could get an additional draft pick if he ends up in the top three vote-getters for rookie of the year. According to the tweet posted early in this thread, this is why they haven't brought him up yet... they want a shot at an extra draft pick. If he is in the top two vote getters for rookie of the year, he would get a full year's service time regardless of how long he'd been up. The purpose is to try to get teams to put their best prospects on the field on opening day rather than keeping them in the minors. I think he'll be up when he's cleared the "rookie status" date, and I think the plan is to keep him up and give him plenty of playing time, as he is viewed as the opening day CF in '23.

Well, he could come up and rake and win Rookie of the Year ?

Long term I agree. I'd rank the AAA OFs at Frelick, Weimer, Mitchell, Ruiz, although it's great to see Mitchell back and doing well so he could surpass Weimer if he keeps rolling (on my meaningless "list" anyhow). I'd say that with Weimer and Mitchell's injuries this year, I think Ruiz is probably the #2 call-up right now if needed, behind Frelick. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, as it'd mean we had a significant injury.

From an SBNation article I Googled: "However, little was done to curb service time manipulation as the players dropped their proposal to expand Super Two status. Top prospects who finish first or second in Rookie of the Year voting will receive a full year of service time. Teams who promote top prospects to the Opening Day roster will receive draft pick compensation if those players finish in the top three for Rookie of the Year or top five in MVP or Cy Young voting."

While I agree with you, my point was that this is a thread about Frelick. He's a former first round draft pick who has raced through the minors and is ready for The Show. He's likely to be the first of a line of quality prospects that can help keep this franchise relevant for the foreseeable future, and his skill set is one that is sorely lacking on our MLB roster, so he could have a positive impact right away. Let's give him some love by talking about him in this thread that is dedicated to him, and save the Hiura talk for the many other threads in which it's being discussed. It's worth discussing, I'd just like a thread that focuses on a guy who I hope will put together some All-Star campaigns over the next six years in a Brewer uniform.

Ruiz has only had 43 ABs in Nashville, so not really enough of a sample size to be meaningful, but he has a .380 OBP (.729 OPS) in those 43 ABs. We need more OBP on the MLB roster. I think Frelick is ahead of Ruiz on the depth chart, so he will likely be called up first, but Ruiz is still a talented player and I hope he is able to help the MLB club at some point. Davis is simply a journeyman. As a Brewers fan, I'm glad he was available and able to step in when Cain gave up on baseball. I'm also glad that he was able have some positive value in his tenure as a Brewer. I do not think that the possibility of losing Davis should in any way impact how the Brewers handle their prospects. We have four OFs in AAA who should be better than Davis right now, three of whom play CF as their natural position. Service time is important, so I understand why they're waiting, but I am anxious to see one of these guys (probably Frelick) get his shot as our everyday CF, and I'm glad to see Taylor moving back to the 4th OF role he has been so good at playing.

Let's try not to turn this into another "Keston Hiura should play more" thread. We've had enough of those. I think Frelick could add some life to this team. We have way too much "all or nothing," so just for diversification purposes, a "bat-to-ball" guy should fit in nicely. Plus, I hope that Frelick will come into next season as the opening day starter, so getting his feet wet this year should help him (and the team) out going forward. I don't know if it's good to throw young guys right into the fire, but Adames really isn't a #2/3 hitter with his .221/.285/.449/.734 slash line. He's probably better served in the #5/6 hole. Would the team be gutsy enough to put the rookie at #2 (I think Yelich is cemented in at leadoff). Having two guys who get on base in front of the home run hitters seems like a good idea.

Davis did put up good numbers at AAA this year. However, he's 30 and a career journeyman/AAAA guy, while Ruiz is 23 and has had a breakout season this year. There is reason to doubt that Ruiz is for real, but the fact that Davis hit well in his time in Nashville this year is not one of them. Davis has not been horrible with the Brewers, posting a 0.5 WAR this year in 84 PA (mostly due to good defense). Meanwhile, Taylor has posted a 0.7 WAR in 304 PA. Both of our CF "placeholders" have been average-ish. However, the AAA prospects are highly touted, so the hope is that they will be better than that. It's probably a good thing that our biggest "black hole" is still posting a positive WAR, and it is definitely a good thing that we get to debate over which one of our highly-touted MLB-ready prospects we should bring up. I'm excited to see all of the AAA guys in Milwaukee. At this time, Frelick is the better prospect, so it makes sense to bring him up. I look forward to having another contact/OBP bat in the lineup. Maybe some of the solo shots will become two-run homers, and we'll be able to get a runner in from second once in a while.

Yes, I was referring to what he’s doing in the minors. The MLB team still has a lot of “all or nothing” in it, but it appears that they’ll gradually be replaced over the next few seasons with some OBP/contact guys.

Yes, I was referring to what he’s doing in the minors. The MLB team still has a lot of “all or nothing” in it, but it appears that they’ll gradually be replaced over the next few seasons with some OBP/contact guys.

And what really gets me excited is that for most of my time following Brewer prospects (I've been on this site for a couple of decades), a guy like Misiorowski would have immediately been placed in the top few spots on the list. We've just gone through a period where the Brewers have been in the bottom tier of farm systems. Right now, not only do we have one of the top prospects in baseball, but our top draft picks don't even crack our team's Top 10 list!! The Brewers farm system has taken a huge step forward. There is a lot to be excited about, and the future is soon, with many of our top guys near MLB ready. Normally you'd see this happen when a team is going through an extended rebuild, but the Crew has turned the farm around during a period in which they're winning at the MLB level.

Adames is a free agent the same year as Woodruff, Burnes, Houser and Lauer, so it is feasible that they look to trade him this offseason. I just figured they'd hold onto him for another year, but if they see Turang as the 2023 starting SS, then they might look to find a young 2B/3B as part of a package for Adames. It seems that Stearns is trying to mold the team into one that focuses on OBP and contact rather than "all or nothing" power and I think the offense will look a lot different in a couple of seasons. It'll be interesting to see what he does. I'd certainly only trade Adames if we obtained another starting infielder, whether that came back in the Adames trade, or was acquired elsewhere. Brosseau is a good utility option against LHP, but he's not someone I'd want to rely on everyday, and beyond Turang we're lacking in MLB-ready IF prospects. That's one reason Urias is valuable to the Brewers. While he might end up being an average player, he's still got some years of cheap control, so there's value having an average player for a below-average price. That allows the team to spend its limited resources elsewhere. Urias isn't a problem, he just may be someone who you look to replace when he becomes expensive and/or you have a better replacement in-house and ready. Plus, he's still young enough that he could take the next step and become a good player, which would be a big win for everyone.

Adames is a free agent the same year as Woodruff, Burnes, Houser and Lauer, so it is feasible that they look to trade him this offseason. I just figured they'd hold onto him for another year, but if they see Turang as the 2023 starting SS, then they might look to find a young 2B/3B as part of a package for Adames. It seems that Stearns is trying to mold the team into one that focuses on OBP and contact rather than "all or nothing" power and I think the offense will look a lot different in a couple of seasons. It'll be interesting to see what he does. I'd certainly only trade Adames if we obtained another starting infielder, whether that came back in the Adames trade, or was acquired elsewhere. Brosseau is a good utility option against LHP, but he's not someone I'd want to rely on everyday, and beyond Turang we're lacking in MLB-ready IF prospects. That's one reason Urias is valuable to the Brewers. While he might end up being an average player, he's still got some years of cheap control, so there's value having an average player for a below-average price. That allows the team to spend its limited resources elsewhere. Urias isn't a problem, he just may be someone who you look to replace when he becomes expensive and/or you have a better replacement in-house and ready. Plus, he's still young enough that he could take the next step and become a good player, which would be a big win for everyone.

I think that this is what should happen. The question is to whether the Brewers are willing to bruise Adames' ego by moving him to third. He seems to be a "team first" guy, so maybe he wouldn't have a problem moving from SS to 3B, but usually vets want to stay at SS because it means they'll get a bigger payday when free agency hits. I think that both Urias and Adames "swing out of their shoes" too much, and would be better players if they focused more on making contact and less on trying to hit the ball 500 feet. But, in today's baseball I don't think they'll change, so I think Urias will be a talented player who hits around 20 HR but doesn't make enough contact/get on base enough to reach his potential. He's still young and cheap, so there is no reason for the Brewers to actively look to replace him. That decision will be made in a couple years when he starts to get his arby raises.

I think that this is what should happen. The question is to whether the Brewers are willing to bruise Adames' ego by moving him to third. He seems to be a "team first" guy, so maybe he wouldn't have a problem moving from SS to 3B, but usually vets want to stay at SS because it means they'll get a bigger payday when free agency hits. I think that both Urias and Adames "swing out of their shoes" too much, and would be better players if they focused more on making contact and less on trying to hit the ball 500 feet. But, in today's baseball I don't think they'll change, so I think Urias will be a talented player who hits around 20 HR but doesn't make enough contact/get on base enough to reach his potential. He's still young and cheap, so there is no reason for the Brewers to actively look to replace him. That decision will be made in a couple years when he starts to get his arby raises.

I got worried as soon as he was put on the mound against the Cardinals. The part of the lineup they put him out for murders LHP: O'Neill: .283/.350/.434/.784 124 wRC+ (72 vs RHP) Arenado: .260/.337/.688/1.026 179 wRC+ (152 vs RHP) Goldschmidt: .432/.531/.815/1.345 269 wRC+ (165 vs RHP) Pujols: .351/.386/.662/1.049 183 wRC+ (76 vs RHP) He never should have been put out in that situation. They should've used a RHP as every one up is much better vs LHP. The mistake was made even bigger when he was left out there to face Pujols, whose only role these days is to mash LHP. Honestly, I don't understand why, with two days off in the week leading up to the Cardinal series, Counsell didn't adjust the rotation. St Louis destroys LHP, and the Dodgers destroy RHP, but we were set up to put two lefties out in the three games against the Cards, and mostly righties against the Dodgers. Other teams always seem to line up their lefties against the Brewers, but we can't figure out how to do this, even when we had two days off in a four-day stretch leading into these important series. I've always liked Counsell, but he really seems to be putting players in a position to fail these days.