Brew crew 92

His command is gone. Been that way the last 4-5 outings. He’s the first to go when Stearns improves the pen, Claudio the second. Or is it the other way around?

Again, a very logical take, couldn’t agree more. So why not add what we need to fix our biggest holes and become better than competitive and compete for a championship. Can’t we possibly get better prospects than we give up after next year’s season by the trading of Yelich Hader Woodruff Davies Arcia? Of course by trading those guys you guarantee the Brewers will be the Marlins for the next 3-5 years minimum. Prospects may turn out or may not turn into anything. Will any of them turn into a Woodruff, Hader, or Yellich. Chances are extremely against it. Disagree. Prospects that we trade can be replaced and then some. I believe Stearns to be as smart or smarter than most of his contemporaries. At worst a 2-3 year retool.

[sarcasm]Only 650 days until Turang gets the call.[/sarcasm] Personally speaking here, hoping it’s with the DBacks cause he was needed to be moved for us to secure Greinke and Ray, who helped us get past the dodgers and to a World Series title over the Yankees in back to back World Series titles.

Good post. If it wasn’t so sad it would be even funnier.

Extremely thoughtful, really really funny take. Good job.

Again, a very logical take, couldn’t agree more. So why not add what we need to fix our biggest holes and become better than competitive and compete for a championship. Can’t we possibly get better prospects than we give up after next year’s season by the trading of Yelich Hader Woodruff Davies Arcia?

Swarzak was incredible. Moose was ok. Schoop could not have been worse. Gio was good Cedeno was bad. Granderson was great. And this year’s additions will win the central.

Where have you seen him play? Saw him twice in person in Omaha back in June, and watched him in the AAA all star game. 4 hits and a couple walks in those three games, so kinda slumped.

.349 .428 last year WITHOUT the juiced ball in AAA. 127 PA doesn’t really scream mlb failure, at least to me it doesn’t. Freitas also doesn’t hit for power so his numbers this year less inflated by the juiced ball. I’m not a pro scout, but in my 55+ years of watching baseball, I can see a good plate approach hitter when I see one, and I’ve seen him hit and he’s a good hitter. Give him 500 PA’s and he’ll hit mlb pitching better than manny Pina. I must say, I don’t know how you get the info you do, but it’s really amazing to me, the amount of information your able to dig up somehow, and it’s appreciated I’m sure by all, even if not said so publicly.

It’s all that running around the bases, just another couple feet on two or three of those rockets off the center field and right center field wall and he could have jogged around those same bases.

The Royals won't take two bums like Barnes and Williams for Diekman. They would get a better pkg. from any other team interested in Diekman. Diaz is nowhere near the pitcher he was last year. More hits than IPs - 21 ERs in only 38 IPs - 1.6 HRs/9. 3+ BBs/9. Right now I wouldn't give up Williams for him, much less the whole pkg.. I made that quite clear in my description of Diaz when I said he’s having a disastrous year. Which I believe to be an anomaly, and I believe he’s far and away the best reliever to possibly be had. I’ve been told the prospects offered is too much, but I doubt anyone else on this earth of ours, besides you, wouldn’t trade Williams straight up for Diaz. Diekman will not be expensive, so the royals scouts might not know the mental weakness of Williams Barnes, as well as brewer fans do.

Yes I agree that a lot of the capital improvement projects help the big league team, but, wouldn’t it also help the big lead team for one year, a serious contention year, to give Stearns an extra $50 million to see if he can win a title with a payroll only 40-50 million less than the Cubbies and dodgers instead of 90-100 million less.?

What's your point? Profits can be reinvested in more than just payroll. I think it's a good thing that they spent money on Carolina, concessions and Maryvale, as it helps them add to the value of the team as a whole, including how it looks to potential outside free agents. You don't think guys like Grandal and Moose are impressed with the improvements they made to the Maryvale facility? How is that a bad thing? Attanasio is putting his money where his mouth is. In my opinion, you have created this myth of him being some sort of snake oil salesman, and it seems the more you say it, the more you believe it. I know you desperately want other posters to jump on board with your line of thinking on this, but there's just too many holes in the story for it to be taken seriously. Not a single poster has specifically refuted any of the points that I’ve made or MrTPlush has made. Just a bunch of generalities in rebuttal of my specific points.

Holt the 7th round pick that hasn't played a professional game yet Holt? Your definition of a stud prospect may need to be narrowed a bit. Yelich could land two studs plus other good pieces, while Woodruff/Hader would likely bring back one stud each plus other good pieces. If all three are dealt you're probably getting four studs (50 FV+), then a bunch of 35-45 FV guys (which would be the range that Grisham, Rasmussen, Small, Kelly, Holt etc. fall into). I think your undervaluing Woodruff but ok, add 4-5 studs and 6-9 good pieces to this Stearns led front office and say he could retool quickly to contender status.

That’s your opinion that he IS doing what he said he would. The fact that they’ve increased payroll by 15-18 million over the previous year means nothing, when revenue has also increased and just the fact of last year’s playoff revenue potentially being close to the payroll increase just in and of itself. Why the anger? Why the: we’ve been through this time and again. There’s been comments today on the subject. And now you imo, lambasting me because you just happen to disagree with myself and MrTPlush. The team has admitted to making substantial profits in 16 & 17, which 16 was a rebuild year, but the fans of MKE still came out to support the team which is why the large admitted said profit. Revenue’s are not hidden, and their revenues have gone up, so obviously their payroll will too. Ok, so to me it sounds like, since all we can do is guesstimate, we should just sit quietly, not speak up or ask questions, and just let another half century go by without a title, you know, the brewers, oh that team, the small market brewers, you know the team that outperforms their market more than any team in baseball, the one with the consistently high gross profit, the team with the lowest debt % in all of baseball, the team who’s value % wise has gone up more than just about any team in baseball. That team.

Except they don't go over their limit and I think that is where his problem lies. I think most of the savings go into capital projects like food service upgrades, spring training complex, and owning the Mudcats in the present time of sucking. I don't think they save money to use when competing...which is what he wants them to do. The whole idea of them having a spending limit is arbitrary, though, because no one other than the team's ownership and front office really knows what that number is. My guess is that it is a loose limit, and the front office is handed spending parameters, and must get ownership approval for anything that doesn't fall into those parameters. Imo, your gobbledygooking the fact that, Attanasio even said himself, that they were investing profits into the Carolina, concessions, Maryvale etc. Where’s the accountability? Doesn’t Attanasio NEED TO PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS? I’ve been accused of calling Attanasio PT Barnum, even though I’m not the poster that said that, but you know what, i’m getting to the point of agreement in that description of his salesmanship.

Except they don't go over their limit and I think that is where his problem lies. I think most of the savings go into capital projects like food service upgrades, spring training complex, and owning the Mudcats in the present time of sucking. I don't think they save money to use when competing...which is what he wants them to do. Exactly. So if they can invest the profits for said capital improvement( which has helped increase the brewers Franchise value at a higher % the last few years than just about any team in baseball) then why can’t anybody besides myself and MrTPlush hold Attanasio accountable to his OWN WORDS.?

I don’t see why not. If he’s throwing off the mound he must have been cleared by the doctors and I would think, would need the 6 weeks that ST affords pitchers to be ready for the season, maybe sooner since he’s a reliever. With him and Suter and Woodruff and Nelson and Burnes and possible additions this deadline, this teams September could be a lot like last year’s.

But it’s likely not going to happen that quickly, just with the vast number of teams that are waiting till after this weekend at the earliest to do anything with any trades. But I’m with you on the buying big, and competing for a title this year and next.

You make a lot of good points, but, just looking at their pen, if it’s not the worst pen in the league, it’s got to be close, and not just statistically, but to my eyes, ugh. They have Zero chance to win the west, so do they give up gobs of prospects to get 3 pen arms to try to get past better teams just to get to the wild card game? Imo, they have a forward thinking GM, who imo, fleeced the cards in the goldy trade, and will be smart enough to sell Greinke and Ray. Now to answer your logical argument that they might not want prospects that far away from the big leagues, my answer would be, if I’m Arizona ‘s GM I want the best talent I can get for when I trade them and can flip said prospects for ML ready ones.

I’m digging up this thread because it’s the proper one to say what I’m about to say. With Woodruff’s injury, imo, it puts us in a tough situation, if, as I believe, our team is good enough to add at the deadline to compete for a title. Some of what I’m going to say was covered in my post in the Ray thread, but I’m going to expound upon said thread, so here it goes: I’ve heard by numerous posters that my solution to our lower mid-market revenue, and being able to truly compete with the higher payroll teams is for lack of a better word stupid: Bump up the payroll to 180 in a 1 or 2 year window of true World Series contention, and slash the payroll for 1-2 years to make up the difference. This is an idea I’m assuming is one that is already in Attanasio’s head since he’s already made the statement of banking $ in low payroll years and using that to bump up payroll in serious contention years. My question to the overwhelming majority of posters on this site, some of which have made comments to my solution as being too simple, or it’s not like it hasn’t been thought of before type comments, to you I say why? Why is it not an obvious solution to our chronic low payroll teams ability to compete payroll wise with the big boys? Do we not think Stearns is smart/sharp enough to accomplish this? Instead of poo pooing without any real explanation, which is done quite frequently on this subject, I’d like to hear anyone’s reason as to why it won’t work? So here we go: if the brewers breakeven payroll in 2020 is 165 million without any playoff revenue and Attanasio & investors have to realize a minimum 20 million net profit, that means that to get to 180, the team would have to borrow 35 million in 2020. This year to make the minimum 20 million in net profit if payroll after the deadline goes up to 150, and the breakeven this year is 155, 10 less than next year with the new national Fox deal not kicking in till 2020. So that would mean borrowing 25 million this year. 60 million borrowed in this example to have a payroll of 150 this year and 180 next year. Is there anyone out there that doesn’t think Stearns can adjust/reduce payroll enough to payoff said debt.? The numbers are just educated guesses and estimates, which is obviously all any of us can do, to infer what I’ve inferred. The brewers are in a tremendous position imo, to retool in record time with our having the following players and their peak or near peak selling time being after 2020: Yelich > 4-6 stud prospects Woodruff > 4-5 stud prospects Hader > 2-4 stud prospects With those 3 that’s 10-15 stud prospects to add to Hiura Grisham Rasmussen Small Kelly Holt etc. with another 2 Stearns/Johnson drafts. That 1-2 year period of time to re-tool, conservatively we could pay off that 60 million at a minimum. So imo, that’s our only realistic opportunity to compete with teams that will chronically spend 230-260 million on their payroll, EVERY YEAR. Why is this not a good idea?

You should check out how much WAR Galvis had through his age 24 season (-.2) compared to Arcia at 2.5. And $5.5M is not cheap for the type of player Galvis is. Nor should Stearns ever make moves on the assumption of what he may or may not be able to get in a trade for Yelich and/or Hader. Again, not how things work. Imo, it’s cheap for a potential 3 war SS. But AGAIN, I’m open to other possibilities other than Galvis, although he most certainly would be an upgrade over Arcia, at least to me, the next 2 years.

Pina How good is Freitas defensively? I wouldn't really mind if they gave him a chance next year by making him the back-up and letting Pina walk (or sign Pina to a MiLB deal). Don't think I would gamble on Freitas starting though...or even a Pina/Freitas combo as that could be a disaster offensively. If he has good defense he could certainly start out backing up and either earn a starting gig by performance or inevitable injury. I assumed when Stearns traded for him he was good defensively, not sure why I assumed that, but, I’ve read a couple posters say he’s average at best, but would like Toby’s opinion on not just his defense, but also his hitting abilities, since I seem to be a minority of one with regards to his having found “it” at the age of 30.

At least I can understand wanting to upgrade from Arcia. His offense has been better than last year, but it still isn't good. And they aren't even playing him, so something is obviously up there. It sucks, because he's an uber-talented, home-grown 24-year-old kid who has shown elite defensive abilities and solid offensive potential. He's the type of athlete you build around, not jettison. I do understand if their patience with him is wearing thin, though. If they are going to upgrade from Arcia (who still has considerable upside), I sure as heck hope that they target someone better than Galvis, who as Brew4u said, is basically an older, less talented version of Arcia. Your insistence on upgrading from Gamel continues to be much more in the ridiculous category, though, IMO. Nailed it. Brew Crew 92, you found a player that isn’t an upgrade. Yes he’s having a nice year (finally) but you’re giving up on a player that is cheap, controlled, and has tons of talent for a player that isn’t. There’s also this: Sometimes it takes longer. The Brewers offense is good enough that just tossing away Arcia is a really bad idea. They are not desperate. Galvis is also cheap for this year and next, 5.5 mil. And has almost as much war this year as Arcia has his entire career. Not sure if I nailed it or not though, I’m open to other possibilities for an upgrade. And when Stearns sells High on Yelich and Hader and others after next year, maybe we have a ML ready stud we can plug in for 2021.

Certainly an interesting idea, and I love the aggressiveness of this trade proposal. But, just a couple of important comments/questions: Are we asking the Dbacks to eat any of that remaining 70+M owed to Greinke for the '20 and '21 seasons? Or, are we just asking Mark A. to somehow fit that into our already crunched budget for the next two years? And, that doesn't even include the 8-9M that we would also now have to pay Robbie Ray in 2020. Also, for two top level rotation arms like this - I'm guessing it would take more than just Turang, Lutz, Ashby and Lemons to land them. I would imagine we'd have to start with either Freddy/Burnes, then Turang, Grisham, Rasmussen and Ashby. Would take an absolute haul to get these two guys - unless if we are eating all of ZG's salary the next two years, and even then it would still probably take a haul. I just edited my text to answer your question, and I have no problem adjusting names to make it work. Grisham and Peralta are off the table if possible, unlike most on this site I believe we have tons of attractive prospects, and if we take on the full salary, I’m confident we can make a deal without my two aforementioned untouchables.