Brewcrew82

Look at BTV. And then look at Jansen's WRC+ compared to all catchers with more than 200 at-bats. He'll be a popular commodity on the trade market.

Garrett Mitchell (maybe Esteury Ruiz?) and another higher-end piece potentially gets you Jansen (a Wisconsin native). Kirk would require you to add Frelick or Woodruff, while Moreno can probably only be had in a Burnes trade.

Henderson is a franchise lynchpin for them alongside Rutschman. They have no reason to trade 6 years of him, regardless of whether he becomes a shortstop or third baseman, for 2 years of Burnes, as elite as he is. Hence, why he's more valuable according to BTV. Prospect lists aren't just about talent, they're also about the likelihood of success, A #1 prospect such as Henderson is not just incredibly talented, but he's also extremely likely, moreso than other prospects, to fulfill his potential.

Henderson is a franchise lynchpin for them alongside Rutschman. They have no reason to trade 6 years of him, regardless of whether he becomes a shortstop or third baseman, for 2 years of Burnes, as elite as he is. Hence, why he's more valuable according to BTV. Prospect lists aren't just about talent, they're also about the likelihood of success, A #1 prospect such as Henderson is not just incredibly talented, but he's also extremely likely, moreso than other prospects, to fulfill his potential.

Cause he failed so totally at being a GM that he had no place else to run.

Cause he failed so totally at being a GM that he had no place else to run.

I saw a report today (not sure how true) that the Woodruff is the pitcher teams think may be dealt and that the Brewers intend on keeping Burnes at this time and negotiating an extension with him. It's interesting, because, financial considerations aside, Burnes, at 28, is the one you'd ideally sign-long term, while Woodruff, who will turn 30 by spring training, is the one you'd prefer to trade. So, IF TRUE, maybe they anticipate something closer to what you're saying, i.e. a DeGrom-type extension at 5 years, $130 million+, which would allow him to reenter free agency and sign a second big-money deal at 33. That is not out of the Brewers' range.... Also, I would point to the extension Jose Ramirez signed with Cleveland just before the season. Different positions and ages, yes, but Ramirez was looking at a huge deal in free agency and instead re-upped one year-out with the only club he has ever known for 5 years, $124 million. It is entirely possible that Burnes could decide to do something similar.

I saw a report today (not sure how true) that the Woodruff is the pitcher teams think may be dealt and that the Brewers intend on keeping Burnes at this time and negotiating an extension with him. It's interesting, because, financial considerations aside, Burnes, at 28, is the one you'd ideally sign-long term, while Woodruff, who will turn 30 by spring training, is the one you'd prefer to trade. So, IF TRUE, maybe they anticipate something closer to what you're saying, i.e. a DeGrom-type extension at 5 years, $130 million+, which would allow him to reenter free agency and sign a second big-money deal at 33. That is not out of the Brewers' range.... Also, I would point to the extension Jose Ramirez signed with Cleveland just before the season. Different positions and ages, yes, but Ramirez was looking at a huge deal in free agency and instead re-upped one year-out with the only club he has ever known for 5 years, $124 million. It is entirely possible that Burnes could decide to do something similar.

Yeah, there is a scenario (unlikely) where they include Rodriguez, but Henderson, like Rutschman, is off-limits. He's the top prospect in baseball right now.

Yeah, there is a scenario (unlikely) where they include Rodriguez, but Henderson, like Rutschman, is off-limits. He's the top prospect in baseball right now.

Right, which is why I'm acknowledging that a deal isn't likely from the start. But at least show the fans you genuinely tried, as opposed to the current situation, which is that the team has yet to even approach him. Who knows, you might even get lucky like Cleveland did with Ramirez.

Right, which is why I'm acknowledging that a deal isn't likely from the start. But at least show the fans you genuinely tried, as opposed to the current situation, which is that the team has yet to even approach him. Who knows, you might even get lucky like Cleveland did with Ramirez.

At minimum, I would like to see the Brewers make a genuine effort before actually going ahead and trading him. That deal would qualify as that.

At minimum, I would like to see the Brewers make a genuine effort before actually going ahead and trading him. That deal would qualify as that.

If the Brewers gave him Yelich's deal (maybe a year or two less), I think he'd actually accept it. as he genuinely seems to enjoy playing here. I'd be fine offering it, too, as I think Burnes is that special of a talent. But it's not my money or risk....

If the Brewers gave him Yelich's deal (maybe a year or two less), I think he'd actually accept it. as he genuinely seems to enjoy playing here. I'd be fine offering it, too, as I think Burnes is that special of a talent. But it's not my money or risk....

This is so the wrong perspective and a potentially lethal one to this franchise were Arnold and Attanasio to adopt it. Accept a "light" return for Burnes, the best statistical pitcher in baseball over the past three years with two whole seasons of control, because MAYBE they might be able to scrounge out a little more value than expected in a trade of Renfroe, Ruiz, Mitchell, etc.??? Though I like Ruiz and, especially, Gasser, did we learn absolutely nothing from the Hader trade and this year's deadline?? If the Brewers can't get a better deal than Mullins and some lesser prospects, then ride full-steam into next season with the best 1-2 rotation punch in baseball (assuming DeGrom does leave NY).

This is so the wrong perspective and a potentially lethal one to this franchise were Arnold and Attanasio to adopt it. Accept a "light" return for Burnes, the best statistical pitcher in baseball over the past three years with two whole seasons of control, because MAYBE they might be able to scrounge out a little more value than expected in a trade of Renfroe, Ruiz, Mitchell, etc.??? Though I like Ruiz and, especially, Gasser, did we learn absolutely nothing from the Hader trade and this year's deadline?? If the Brewers can't get a better deal than Mullins and some lesser prospects, then ride full-steam into next season with the best 1-2 rotation punch in baseball (assuming DeGrom does leave NY).

This is an entirely different situation than in 2017-2018. That club was trying to transition to a contender and added Yelich and Cain to power that transition in light of a relative surplus of payroll space. This club, as presently constituted, is already a contender and is looking to continue its run of success in the long-term, yet also has to deal with a huge contingent of arbitration eligible players that is beginning to really push the envelope in terms of payroll. Mullins and Santander, while above average players, aren't needle movers contention-wise given that we would be parting with statistically the best pitcher in baseball to acquire them. And it's not like they would provide payroll relief either given that both are now arbitration eligible and will be getting more expensive by the year. Mullins, in particular, could be a real danger as he's going to get paid a lot due to his 2021 season, despite that season being a real statistical outlier relative to his career numbers and batted-ball metrics. I'm not even sure that Santander is a guaranteed upgrade over any of our current outfielders, given his atrocious defensive stats. You say that it comes down to making the "right decisions". Well, I can tell you right away that trading Burnes for a package headlined by/involving Mullins or Santander isn't the right decision and could really set this franchise back in the long-term. If we're going to trade an absolute premium of a talent such as Burnes with two whole years of control left, we're going to need to receive premium talent in return. So, start with Rodriguez or Holliday or proceed to hang up the phone as nobody else the Orioles could give us (other than Rutschman or Henderson) will make a trade of Burnes worth it imo.

This is an entirely different situation than in 2017-2018. That club was trying to transition to a contender and added Yelich and Cain to power that transition in light of a relative surplus of payroll space. This club, as presently constituted, is already a contender and is looking to continue its run of success in the long-term, yet also has to deal with a huge contingent of arbitration eligible players that is beginning to really push the envelope in terms of payroll. Mullins and Santander, while above average players, aren't needle movers contention-wise given that we would be parting with statistically the best pitcher in baseball to acquire them. And it's not like they would provide payroll relief either given that both are now arbitration eligible and will be getting more expensive by the year. Mullins, in particular, could be a real danger as he's going to get paid a lot due to his 2021 season, despite that season being a real statistical outlier relative to his career numbers and batted-ball metrics. I'm not even sure that Santander is a guaranteed upgrade over any of our current outfielders, given his atrocious defensive stats. You say that it comes down to making the "right decisions". Well, I can tell you right away that trading Burnes for a package headlined by/involving Mullins or Santander isn't the right decision and could really set this franchise back in the long-term. If we're going to trade an absolute premium of a talent such as Burnes with two whole years of control left, we're going to need to receive premium talent in return. So, start with Rodriguez or Holliday or proceed to hang up the phone as nobody else the Orioles could give us (other than Rutschman or Henderson) will make a trade of Burnes worth it imo.

Also, why on earth would the Brewers want Santander and/or Mullins? Like this team needs more outfielders, especially ones that are in their late 20s and are already arbitration-eligible.

Also, why on earth would the Brewers want Santander and/or Mullins? Like this team needs more outfielders, especially ones that are in their late 20s and are already arbitration-eligible.

If the Orioles do declare that Rodriguez and Holliday are off limits, then they’re not getting Burnes, a top 3 (if not THE) top pitcher in baseball. It’s as simple as that. I’m not trading Burnes just for the sake of trading him while he still has two years of control. He’s got a specific value, and a team is going to have to meet or exceed that value. Otherwise, let’s go run it back with perhaps the best 1-2 punch in baseball.

If the Orioles do declare that Rodriguez and Holliday are off limits, then they’re not getting Burnes, a top 3 (if not THE) top pitcher in baseball. It’s as simple as that. I’m not trading Burnes just for the sake of trading him while he still has two years of control. He’s got a specific value, and a team is going to have to meet or exceed that value. Otherwise, let’s go run it back with perhaps the best 1-2 punch in baseball.

Interesting, I think his power surge this season in AAA is for real and that he looks like the second-coming of Nico Hoerner, but with better on-base skills. He's always been a guy about whom it's been said, "If he develops power, look out."