UpandIn

If you wait until they actually do it, it's not really a prediction or projection so much as an observation.

Ok...just seemed strange you'd keep bringing up a guy who's currently playing in Lithuania so I thought I'd ask.

Rattler seems like just an obnoxious human being. I've seen videos where he's talking about how his WRers make him look bad, he's talking down to his teammates. Doesn't seem like he's a real leader. Looks like all the physical attributes are there, but it seems like there are a whole lot more than 32 people physically capable of playing the position. Maybe he'll mature.

You realize Brad Davidson is no longer on the Badgers or playing College Basketball, right?

That's where Frelick should be huge for the Brewers. I just don't know what they're going to do to add right handed bats. Everyone keeps saying you can replace what Renfroe gave you by putting Frelick in there, but you can't. The power and...again, the ability to hit lefties is a big loss. We'll see where they end up, but that seemed like a very reasonable 1 year deal bridging the gap until Wiemer was ready. And I don't buy that because his chase rate was up from 33% to 34%, that's some indicator of things to come(especially as the point was made that his chase rate from '21 and '22 going up and the age of 31 being key indicators). It's a marginal tick up. Same with the BA with RISP. Yeah, you need to get guys who can put the ball in place, take an extra base, all those things. You could have added those things without getting rid of Renfroe. But until we see what this lineup looks like to start next year, I won't worry about it too much. But we're certainly not looking great at THIS moment. Expecting Wiemer to step in and replace what Renfroe did is asking a lot. I think Frelick as a whole can more than replace Renfroe, he was coming up either way. So again, I'll just wait and see how this off-season goes.

That's where Frelick should be huge for the Brewers. I just don't know what they're going to do to add right handed bats. Everyone keeps saying you can replace what Renfroe gave you by putting Frelick in there, but you can't. The power and...again, the ability to hit lefties is a big loss. We'll see where they end up, but that seemed like a very reasonable 1 year deal bridging the gap until Wiemer was ready. And I don't buy that because his chase rate was up from 33% to 34%, that's some indicator of things to come(especially as the point was made that his chase rate from '21 and '22 going up and the age of 31 being key indicators). It's a marginal tick up. Same with the BA with RISP. Yeah, you need to get guys who can put the ball in place, take an extra base, all those things. You could have added those things without getting rid of Renfroe. But until we see what this lineup looks like to start next year, I won't worry about it too much. But we're certainly not looking great at THIS moment. Expecting Wiemer to step in and replace what Renfroe did is asking a lot. I think Frelick as a whole can more than replace Renfroe, he was coming up either way. So again, I'll just wait and see how this off-season goes.

A little piece of good news. The mysterious illness Caleb Jones was dealing with was Mono...and it's is apparently better as he was activated from the NFI. I wouldn't be surprised to see he or Rasheed Walker get some snaps this year yet. With Bakhtiari, if the Packers want to cut him next year, better do it while he's healthy or you could risk being forced to keep him next year. Not sure that's a major issue as you only save 6M next year and I think it'd be kinda silly to move off him for savings of 6M. Could also be there's just no point in playing him the last few weeks when you're out of it. I'd still like to know if he's getting better and the knee is getting stronger or if he's the best he's going to be right now and it's just going to get progressively worse. With Walker, it might be worth trying him at OG. I don't know what the hell is going to happen with Jenkins. He's currently rated as the #3 FA in the NFL for this off-season. "The salary cap doesn't prevent you from signing anyone, poor personal choices do." -Would giving a monster contract to an formerly elite OL who's struggling to come back after a torn ACL constitute the former? I don't know, but the Packers are likely a little snake bitten. Oh...and the Bears have 125M in salary cap space and their offensive coordinator was one of the people who apparently convinced the Packers to draft Jenkins in the first place, Luke Getsy...as he coached him at 'Ole Miss. So I'd guess if he hits the first day of free agency, the Bears are gonna pounce. Q. Nelson type money.

Well, that's the season. What are we gonna do without Sean Rhyan! The 3rd round strikes again. Just use this years 3rd to trade up into the 2nd or to add a couple 4th round picks again. I don't even know what the problem with him is. I know he was getting abused by Wyatt's quickness at family night, but he also looked like he was a big, physical run blocker who could move people. And instead, he hasn't even been able to crack this lineup when Royce Newman was leaking like the Exxon Valdez...and I don't think it was because he wasn't strong enough.

His base salary next year is 1.165M, 2.25 in '24. He really can't cut his cap hit next year. He's still got a lot of money from his last contract that's driving his cap hit and his signing bonus on this new contract. They could add another void year, but that's about the only way to cut Rodgers cap hit for next year or the following year.

People keep stating this unequivocally. He may not be. He's on the 40 man roster. He hits righties. He's going to be in big league camp. It's hardly a stretch to see him breaking camp with the ML team...particularly as it would not look like Frelick, Yelich and Mitchell are in line for a LOT of playing time. Taylor is likely a lock to make it and then it'll come down to how ready they think Wiemer is and how this kid does in Spring Training, what they may do with a guy like Ruiz and who, if anyone else they acquire to play the OF. But at the moment, we're looking VERY weak vs righties and that just happens to be where he has excelled at the last two years. This was a signing that cost almost nothing. It won't be his fault if we lose Cam Devanney in the Rule5, they already made that call. He could be on another team by April, the 26 man or AAA. I sincerely doubt Chourio is going to force the issue in 2023. I'll be happy if he spends most the year in AA and he's healthy. He's an absolute stud...for a 18 year old kid who played at HiA this year, but it's premature to start talking about a place on the roster for him at this point. Wiemer is obviously a reasonable candidate. Wouldn't shock me to see him put up a 5 WAR season playing elite RF, stealing bases and if he gets hot, even putting up a .270/.350/.500 line. I could also see him being Jared Kelenic. I don't care if a guy strikes out 30% of the time if he's making loud contact and taking pitches...but Wiemer is also a guy who's up and down, has only 40 games at AAA. But of course, he could force the issue and take that RF spot and make the Brewers look brilliant.

Is that what they settled on? That makes more sense as Khris Bryant in particular was the type of situation they were attempting to remedy...making a player like that a FA a year earlier, but I've found contradictory statements. I'd nix the top 100 ranking and keep the full season credit. It really is nonsense that Brice Turang cannot net the Brewers a comp pick based on such an arbitrary set of rankings...and one that he's appeared on before. At least as of now. He may make one of the...three lists they go off. MLB, BA and...ESPN. That's an absolute joke. We may be subjected to the whims of Keith Law when determining who gets an extra draft pick and another...million plus in the bonus pool. Awesome. A guy who's so humble and willing to admit he's wrong... They also lose that year no matter what...So if you DID wait to bring Wiemer up(for example as he's one of the two players who'll be on top 100 lists that have any shot of getting called up next year) you could wait until June, he could have a Ryan Braun like rookie year and you both lose time AND you don't get a comp pick. That's kinda stupid. Give him the year of service time, but leaving Wiemer down in AAA isn't necessarily manipulating service time. Leaving Frelick down would be. So if I'm reading this right, both Burnes and Woodruff would have qualified for a PPI pick...but as you can get just the one, we'd have gotten one for Burnes while just missing out in 2020 and this past year. As an aside, it's nice watching two Cards cast offs finish 1st and 5th in Cy Young voting for different teams.

I get what you're saying...I'm thinking the fact that Beauchamp is now on the Heard and that's before we get Middleton back, the Bucks don't see him as being a rotational player in the post-season(at least as of now). I thought he'd played well enough that he'd earned 15-20 MPG with Middleton and Ingles out, but...they clearly see it differently. Definitely not against getting Crowder. He'd make this team a lot more versatile, I just thought the argument that we'll be able to do better at the deadline(whoever originally made it, I don't remember) was persuasive. Don't remember where it comes from, but it was a talking head that I actually respect. I also just can't wait to see Ingles. See HOW the hell he's a good defender. It has to be as a smart, help defender. His nickname was slow Joe BEFORE the torn ACL. Oh, and Carter is definitely not a great matchup on Tatum or Brown. They'll be able to shoot over him. But at least he'll bother them and stay in front of them better than Hill did last year. It's kinda like...Jrue on KD. If KD is on, as good as Jrue is, there's only so much he can do.

His cap hit would be no problem. I think it'd be like 6M next year and then it'd jump up to 16M or so, but not guaranteed...and you're right, that's a big overpay. It'd have to be a 2nd+. It definitely wouldn't make sense to turn around and trade a top ~15 pick for him. Though...again, you would be getting him without having to pay the big signing bonus and you'd have a fraction of the cap hit you would otherwise. Rodgers also can't take less money next year. The only thing I think he can do is change the roster bonuses so that they don't handcuff the Packers down the road. It's also WILDLY unlikely and stems from one of those bad articles I get on my phone that always have these unlikely transactions.

Perkins crushes Left Handed hitters whereas Mitchell doesn't. So he could slide into a platoon role IF he has a good ST'ing and they want to start the year with a couple of these OFers in AAA. 2022- .310/.406/.483 2021- .298/.412/.478 He's hit righties very poorly. So he fits with Frelick/Mitchell/Yelich...maybe buys them some time. Or maybe he's off the roster by January and they make a bunch of other moves. I don't know, at the moment, seems like a fine deal.

I don't disagree with what Brewcrew82 has said in this thread...but I'm also not sure how Perkins shows they're going for a different style of ball? He's a good athlete, walks a lot but strikes out and his hit tool is clearly his biggest hole in his game. He's a ~.245-250 hitter at the higher levels. We've clearly trying to get guys who can manufacture runs, use their speed, they make contact more. What I do like about him is that he crushes lefties. Which...as of now, we BADLY need.

Do they have to be on the OD roster though? They just have to be ranked in the top 100(so no chance for Turang...which makes it REALLY stupid IMO) and that's it...I think.

By this logic, the Twins signing Carlos Correa last year was not a "significant signing." Who cares if they sign someone for 1/17? If they were able to....somehow sign Contreras for 1/17, THAT is a "significant" signing. So yeah, a big one year deal can absolutely be a significant signing. I also want to see them sign Burnes, but I don't know how "going for it" this year would mean extending Burnes through further years.

We went to one of the WORST farm systems and traded for 3 pitchers, the best of which was their 26th ranked prospect. I don't feel like that's the type of player you have to trade vs risk losing for nothing. That his value as a left handed bat who can hit righties would have been more valuable on this team. But maybe the Brewers surprise me and re-sign Burnes or sign Contreras or Abreu and then I'll be fine with it. This move while keeping Wong when there's interest in him...just doesn't make sense to me.

I would definitely improve the defense. I'm not that worried about Beauchamp getting the calls in the playoffs. He's a pretty disciplined defender(or I don't think Bud would be playing him). The concern there has to be that while he's looked better offensively than I think many projected...ideally you'd want someone who offers a little more on the offensive end. Carter is too small, but he's also so physical and so strong, he could at least present more of a challenge to Tatum than we could last year. Quick hands, he can get up into him...just bother him, annoy him like a Pat Bev(or a smaller PJ Tucker...which is what I think he is defensively). My issue is that you also have to include Ingles into that mix. He's a 6'8 wing who has never been an athlete, but always put up good advanced defensive metrics. And again, I just think you'll find a better fit. Crowder is really more of a 4 who can defend smaller players, but he's best defensing a Giannis or LeBron type on the block. I think we're pretty well set there. We've only got enough ammo to make one trade without dealing anyone from our core, so I just think we should wait. BUT, Crowder would make the defense much better and I take your point about Carter's size and Beauchamp's...youth. The Kings may be a team that's worth keeping an eye on. Harrison Barnes is someone reportedly looking to trade. I think he might be a better fit AND a player they could maaaybe extend? They want to make room for Keegan Murray, Terrance Davis and some of their younger/core players. He doesn't provide the physical play, but he's got the length and the scoring ability. Hopefully we get a few weeks of Ingles before the deadline. And if not...there's always the buyout market...which looks to be stronger this year than it normally is.

Well, that'd be something. At least get a projectable 19 year old kid pitching in the DSL who has a bit more upside. ONE of these pitchers if you squint and try real hard, looks like maybe...if everything goes right, the Brewers could POSSIBLY get something out of him. I think it's just as likely all three will come and go having made little impact.

Surely we're smart enough to make the distinction between the Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff, Josh Hader, Willy Adames types...and the type of players who play a key role, but wouldn't be considered for a qualifying offer, no? Keeping Hunter Renfroe for another year was not going to send us down the same road as the Marlins(who don't actually do this) or the Padres. Again, these are three pitchers, the BEST of which was the 26th ranked prospect in the Angels organization. That's not changing the direction of any organization.

? Yes...because I don't like trading away our best hitter...and not only that, one of the few hitters we have who could hit lefties...an area we were VERY bad at least year to save 11M dollars to be spent on upgrades at 3B/1B/DH...which will almost certainly not come to pass just based on the players available at those positions NOT being upgrades or the one or two who are being in their mid to late 30s and very much not fitting your "wrong side of 30" rationale for this trade...then I must go outside. You seem equally upset because I just...simply don't agree with you and have responded with a very condesending explanation of why you're subjective rationale is so much more reasonable. Perhaps...you may need to go outside? I don't know...I personally just spent 4 days outside and it was cold and miserable. I'm nice, warm and happy right now, I'm just talking about a move the Brewers made that I don't like. Could it be you're projecting a bit because I'm not blindly agreeing with you? Very kind of you. But I thought it was better to get rid of a player one year too early rather than one year too late? The guy who raised his OPS by about 20 points due to a 3HR game late in the year and who's defense saw a MAJOR drop off...I guess he doesn't apply to this line of thought because it's not the company line? But you are right. You are just guessing. Which means you're stating an opinion. Something apparently when I do...it's not alright and I'm took worked up? LOL...alright. Yes...but he'll be on the "wrong side" of 30, remember? And he had HIS career year two years ago, he's coming off a season in which he was injured. Are these not all the arguments you made for trading Renfroe? The DIFFERENCE being, if you keep Woodruff a year too late, it can set back your entire organization. If you keep Renfroe a year too long... you have a power hitting RFer for an extra year and he MIGHT not hit quite as well as he did last year(which would be pretty much every other year of his career). And what of those "facts" do you believe I was unaware of? He dealt with shoulder injuries last year. Those are BAD for pitchers. So it only stands to reason you trade him now. Better trade him a year too soon than a year too late, right? If that is absolute, across the board logic(as another poster confirmed) then why would that not be applicable with a young pitcher who's thrown over 100 innings ONCE in his career and in back to back years has missed time at the end of the season due to injuries? Surely it'd be better to trade him a year too early rather than a year too late? I mean, it's ALWAYS better, no? Burnes by that logic should be traded. If you trade him next year and he's not as good as this year, that'll be 3 straight years he's regressed and he'll only have one year of service time available and you'll get less in return for him. But I take it from your objections with Woodruff and then Peralta, it's NOT always better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late? Only when...the Brewers do it? Unless that's just an inane and ridiculous oversimplification and there should be a GREAT deal more that goes into it than that. Then...well then I suppose you may have a point. But that's not the argument originally made. I'm also hearing about how we can take this money we're saving and put it to use for a 3B, 1B/DH. Who are the viable 3B Free Agents that you'd argue would be upgrades? 1B/DH? Again, seems like it's pretty much Abreu.

Well, I don't agree. I do think it's either "when" vs "should they." It's WHEN if you're talking about a player who's going to bring back multiple elite prospects. It's "should they" if it's a key player who's going to bring back...almost nothing of substance. Ok...but if you're going to do that and trade those players under the "better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late," then you should probably get some value back for that player. And it's really not applicable for players who don't have a lot of trade value, but they DO fit your team very-very well. We were already a team that couldn't hit lefties and we just took away our best RHed hitter. Now maybe he won't be the best next year. Could be Adames...I suppose...Urias could be(don't really see another option). But he's very likely to be a ~.800 OPS type hitter who crushes lefties and he was the perfect bridge to Wiemer, pretty much the definition of a rookie who is going to need 300-500 PAs before he makes the necessary adjustments(if he ever does, though I'm confident). Meanwhile, you're trading this player in a year in which your owner JUST talked about building around your core and trying to be aggressive and to win next year. And I hope the Brewers scouting picked up some players who have high ceilings. But I'm already skeptical of some of the selective scouting reports(such as the one that has Junk's FB between 93-97, yet his av FB velo is 92.5 in the limited innings he's thrown in the big leagues). There was no moving off Renfroe a year "too late" in this scenario. You had him for one more year. The last year with Wood/Burnes/Lauer and Adames-most likely. What would have been "too late?" You CAN let players get to free agency from time to time. I really don't see how the 26th ranked prospect in maybe the worst system in baseball as the headliner is "more" than you though we'd get for Renfroe. And I'll definitely have a different opinion if they can go out and get a corner IFer/DH in Free Agency. Problem is, the best 3B FA is Jace Peterson. The top FA DH's available are Nelson Cruz and...JD Martinez. 1B-You need Abreu if you're going to put out a lineup that is better vs left handed pitching next year sans any significant trades. Maybe Brantley could be that RHed bat? They're all more expensive, older and more injury prone. So of course I'll wait, but this trade...right now makes absolutely no sense to me when looking at our roster construction and how we're going to get better in what's likely the final year we're going to have our two aces. It DOES appear to be a cost saving move at a time when we're getting a significant bump in revenue sharing due to the TV money going up. Maybe Wilson Contreras wants the chance to catch in Milwaukee. That would certainly make this trade look good. Maybe it's Abreu. But RIGHT NOW...our lineup got worse and we just made a weakness from last year...an even bigger weakness and I'm not sure how we're going to be able to hit lefties. And the return certainly does not seem worth it. Meanwhile, Angels fans are thrilled. They gave away 3 pitching prospects who didn't really factor into their team(a team that's not exactly flush with pitching) for a GOOD and relatively cheap RFer.

Mitchell didn't graduate off, he fell off. He wasn't a top 100 prospect when we called him up. But...setting that aside, we do have a very deep group of OF prospects. And among them, you can reasonably count on ONE of them to produce at the ML level in 2023...which is likely the last year with Burnes and Woodruff and that's Frelick, the left handed LFer who is a perfect fit for this team...that hit for power and needed a high BA/OBP contact hitter atop the lineup to hit in front of the power hitters we have/had. Expecting Wiemer to step in and produce early as a RFer is asking a lot from a guy who struggled at AA and then hit very well at AAA in ~40 games. The last paragraph REALLY makes very little sense. Mitchell's OPS was under .700 and jumped up about .140 points based on 5 games. You're calling Renfroe's year last year being our best hitter a small sample size, THAT is a small sample size you're using for Mitchell. And again, it's not just about who's BETTER between Mitchell, Frelick, Yelich...it's the fact that we struggled so badly vs Left Handed pitching...an area in which Renfroe thrived.

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense when you're talking about a player under team control. Not an everyday position player with one year left on his contract who's a bridge to your RHed. And I understand what you're saying with your "better to let a player go one year early than one year late." And it's kinda nonsense. It just justifies pretty much every trade and again, it's really applicable when you're contemplating extending a player. There's virtually no reason to expect Renfroe...who's been REMARKABLY consistent during his career save for the 2020 Covid year...to no longer be able to perform at 31. But by this logic, it would seem like this would be the time to trade Wong(no-brainer...he's far less likely to produce the same offensive numbers next year than Renfroe). Woodruff-Gotta trade him. That's a case where the risk/reward skews HEAVILY toward trading him now. He's going to be on the wrong side of 30 and almost certainly had his career year two years ago and was injured last year. Peralta...shoulder fatigue? Better trade him now while you can still get prospects in return than wait another year and maybe he has more serious issues and you can't get back significant value for him. You can go and do this for nearly every player who's no longer pre-arb and justify a trade.