UpandIn

Yeah, same here. I do think it's unlikely they'd trade Rodriguez AND another top 50 prospect for two years of Burnes when their window is pretty wide open, but that's gotta be the starting point. I also doubt they land deGrom or Verlander. Rodon is possible, but not sure he's got the track record you want leading your staff. Burnes on the other hand...he does. And it's entirely plausible they sign him to an extension if they're going to trade him. There are no rules determining what pitchers entering their final couple years of arbitration do. As mention, Castillo and Musgrove just got extensions...and if they're not good enough deGrom signed one. I believe Kershaw signed. Nola signed...just pitchers off the top of my head. So rather than paying deGrom what'll likely end up being 40+ as a FA, they could trade for Burnes, get a discount on his contract and still acquire their ace. I do think maybe the trade proposals are just too much. If you've got one of the top 5 prospects in the game...who's a pitcher who sits comfortably in the upper 90s with 6 years of team control, do you want to give him AND another top 20-50 prospect who plays a premium position up? I don't know, but that should be the Brewers asking price. I think in this hypothetical it'd also make some sense to expand the trade. If Baltimore is going for it this year, then they've got a hole in the OF. So maybe they throw in Mitchell or an OFer into the deal. I don't know, but again, you HAVE to ask for the moon for Burnes. He's a 28 year old Cy Young winner with multiple years of team control. That should net you a couple of top 50 prospects and then a couple of top 50-150 prospects without getting too specific.

Yeah, that's pretty vague, but...in what context would you call a couple of guys who hadn't played above rookie ball significant OTHER than a trade for an executive? I do think this is MUCH different than Theo. He was a legend by then. Two world series, including the architect of the '04 comeback from 3-0 down to the Yankees, plus his was their hometown boy? He also came with...Hoyer I think(don't know if he was part of the trade though). I'm really always happy with any 19 year old prospects who still have room to fill out or maybe have one good pitch, one plus tool. Just someone who MAYBE develops(like Peralta). 99 times out of 100, you don't hear from them again, but that 1 time, it can be Tatis Jr or who knows?

Yeah, that's pretty vague, but...in what context would you call a couple of guys who hadn't played above rookie ball significant OTHER than a trade for an executive? I do think this is MUCH different than Theo. He was a legend by then. Two world series, including the architect of the '04 comeback from 3-0 down to the Yankees, plus his was their hometown boy? He also came with...Hoyer I think(don't know if he was part of the trade though). I'm really always happy with any 19 year old prospects who still have room to fill out or maybe have one good pitch, one plus tool. Just someone who MAYBE develops(like Peralta). 99 times out of 100, you don't hear from them again, but that 1 time, it can be Tatis Jr or who knows?

I could see it if this would have happened last year...but they had a great year. To be fair, give the Brewers another 160M and I'm farilly confident we win more than 101 games, but whatever...they had it and they did it. By the way, O/U on Mets payroll? I'm setting it at 305. I'll take the over. I'll also take the over on deGrom at 40M. As for Cashman...if you give him another year, you're gonna have to give him a big contract. That means you'll be paying him 3 years, maybe 4 to give him one more year. Seems like it'd be cheaper to take a couple of low tier signings from LA and roll the dice on them.

I could see it if this would have happened last year...but they had a great year. To be fair, give the Brewers another 160M and I'm farilly confident we win more than 101 games, but whatever...they had it and they did it. By the way, O/U on Mets payroll? I'm setting it at 305. I'll take the over. I'll also take the over on deGrom at 40M. As for Cashman...if you give him another year, you're gonna have to give him a big contract. That means you'll be paying him 3 years, maybe 4 to give him one more year. Seems like it'd be cheaper to take a couple of low tier signings from LA and roll the dice on them.

I think the Yankees make a whole lot of sense. Cashman is up and there have been rumors he may be gone. They can just trade Volpe and Dominguez and he can take Stearns! He gets a MASSIVE payroll, he gets a team that's...really not in bad shape with regard to future guaranteed contracts(for the Yankees...crippling for the Brewers). Cole has a player option coming up for 36M and Stanton is owed 32, LaMehaiu for 15 and then Hicks for ~9M. Throw in Judge who'll be making ~40 and they've got a very good farm system with up the middle talent that could kick over to 3rd if need be and he has payroll flexibility and he can actually go out and has the resources to win a World Series.

I think the Yankees make a whole lot of sense. Cashman is up and there have been rumors he may be gone. They can just trade Volpe and Dominguez and he can take Stearns! He gets a MASSIVE payroll, he gets a team that's...really not in bad shape with regard to future guaranteed contracts(for the Yankees...crippling for the Brewers). Cole has a player option coming up for 36M and Stanton is owed 32, LaMehaiu for 15 and then Hicks for ~9M. Throw in Judge who'll be making ~40 and they've got a very good farm system with up the middle talent that could kick over to 3rd if need be and he has payroll flexibility and he can actually go out and has the resources to win a World Series.

It's pretty unlikely it'd be "significant compensation," but if there are a couple of 19 year olds with a nice FB but who are raw and undeveloped, I'd gladly take them. The Cubs got back 3, Xander Boegarts brother(who'd performed very well at IIRC age 18 in the DSL) and a 19 year old pitcher who, along with a 26 year old reliever subsequently tore their UCLs and required TJ surgery. So just a couple of low level guys would be nice...I suspect he'll just be here the rest of the year and then leave.

It's pretty unlikely it'd be "significant compensation," but if there are a couple of 19 year olds with a nice FB but who are raw and undeveloped, I'd gladly take them. The Cubs got back 3, Xander Boegarts brother(who'd performed very well at IIRC age 18 in the DSL) and a 19 year old pitcher who, along with a 26 year old reliever subsequently tore their UCLs and required TJ surgery. So just a couple of low level guys would be nice...I suspect he'll just be here the rest of the year and then leave.

That seems like a very fair deal. Obviously I'd start a little lower(5/100, TO@30 5M buyout). Maybe with Reynaud's he's more inclined to sign a deal ensuring 9 figures right now. I know it's not the topic, but I'd make a similar deal to Burnes, just tack on about 3M a year before turning to Woodruff(so 5/125, maybe some escalator options). But...as that's not likely to happen, I'd be happy locking Woodruff up the next 5yrs...and I have no concerns about it being into his early 30s. I'm not really sure why that's such a big concern. He's a guy who's got a big frame, good mechanics, we haven't abused him, he's thrown ~1200IP the last 11 years. The injuries he's had have been minor(and oblique at one point, an ankle and then a disease that's apparently not a big concern when treated). Of course with pitchers, the risk of injury comes with all of them, but I feel as good with Woodruff or Burnes as I would just about anyone else. As far as concerns about the salary, that's always going to be an issue with the Brewers, but revenue is going up and this will be a young team. And if you can't sign either(or Willy) then that's fine too. It's not like a QB or a franchise player in the NBA. We'll reload, hopefully keep developing pitchers after turning Burnes/Woody/Adames into some elite prospects.

That seems like a very fair deal. Obviously I'd start a little lower(5/100, TO@30 5M buyout). Maybe with Reynaud's he's more inclined to sign a deal ensuring 9 figures right now. I know it's not the topic, but I'd make a similar deal to Burnes, just tack on about 3M a year before turning to Woodruff(so 5/125, maybe some escalator options). But...as that's not likely to happen, I'd be happy locking Woodruff up the next 5yrs...and I have no concerns about it being into his early 30s. I'm not really sure why that's such a big concern. He's a guy who's got a big frame, good mechanics, we haven't abused him, he's thrown ~1200IP the last 11 years. The injuries he's had have been minor(and oblique at one point, an ankle and then a disease that's apparently not a big concern when treated). Of course with pitchers, the risk of injury comes with all of them, but I feel as good with Woodruff or Burnes as I would just about anyone else. As far as concerns about the salary, that's always going to be an issue with the Brewers, but revenue is going up and this will be a young team. And if you can't sign either(or Willy) then that's fine too. It's not like a QB or a franchise player in the NBA. We'll reload, hopefully keep developing pitchers after turning Burnes/Woody/Adames into some elite prospects.

It's literally public record. Molitor for instance, was introduced to the drug by....teammates. You think that takes inside information? Have you REALLY never heard of this? Here is all my "inside" info. https://sites.google.com/site/brettbushthesis/chapter-4/discussion-of-the-research-questions-1/2-who-in-major-league-baseball-history-is-considered-a-scandalous-player/2-who-in-major-league-baseball-history-is-considered-a-scandalous-player-b-not-in-the-hall-of-fame/drug-cocaine-scandals 40% per Keith Hernandez(another known cocaine user). Testified to under oath. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1061218-drugs-why-is-cocaine-viewed-differently-than-steroids-in-major-league-baseball https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/sports-suspensions-drugs-mlb-scandal 21 players suspended just in 1986 as a result of the "Pittsburgh Cocaine Trials."

It's literally public record. Molitor for instance, was introduced to the drug by....teammates. You think that takes inside information? Have you REALLY never heard of this? Here is all my "inside" info. https://sites.google.com/site/brettbushthesis/chapter-4/discussion-of-the-research-questions-1/2-who-in-major-league-baseball-history-is-considered-a-scandalous-player/2-who-in-major-league-baseball-history-is-considered-a-scandalous-player-b-not-in-the-hall-of-fame/drug-cocaine-scandals 40% per Keith Hernandez(another known cocaine user). Testified to under oath. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1061218-drugs-why-is-cocaine-viewed-differently-than-steroids-in-major-league-baseball https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/sports-suspensions-drugs-mlb-scandal 21 players suspended just in 1986 as a result of the "Pittsburgh Cocaine Trials."

I think this is my favorite one thus far. I think you might be a little high on one or a little low on another, but all certainly in the ballpark and we have no idea what players will actually sign for. I go back and forth with the pitchers. That deal is basically buying out Woody's FA years at just shy of 30M AAV...which seems like it should be closer to a Burnes type deal at the moment. I also think the longer we wait, the more ridiculous these pitchers contracts will be. I won't be the least bit surprised to hear deGrom signed for 3/140. Maybe 130...but I think he's going to shatter the AAV on a short deal. Verlander, I think Trevor Bauer's contract(and that's the ONLY comp I'm making) is the starting point. ~3/105. So when you still control a player for two years, you're taking on risk and the player should be giving something up. Not sure Woodruff(or Burnes) would be giving enough up to sign at this point, but I also think the market for true ACES is going to get thrown out of whack this year a little bit. So get it done quickly or it's less likely to get done. Beyond that, of all the Brewers OFers I'd like to give up, it's Ruiz and then Mitchell. And with their need in RF, he could certainly fill that need. Jansen is a near perfect bridge to Quero(ideally). And a massive upgrade right now. Robert Suarez-I do not understand why he's a FA, but I think that's a very reasonable deal. 2 years/18M and then maybe a 3-4M if the option isn't picked up? Abreu-I'm not sure I'd go 3/55.5 for him, but I have said since early this season he should be the Brewers top FA target. I thought 3/45 would be in the range given his age and the fact that not many teams need 1B. All for the Baltimore trade. I think it's very likely don't want to part with Grayson Rodriguez, OR they'd require a period to negotiate with Burnes for their own extension before trading for him, but it's obviously just a template. Vargas, Bobby Miller and Stone or Jung, Owen White and Cole Wynn. If one team isn't willing to pay, you move on. But the takeaway from that was a MLB ready corner IFer and a couple of talented arms...right? That's a more than fair starting point. The IMPORTANT point here is that you're rebuilding the BP with a variety of different arms, but some very valuable high leverage arms. And the Brewers would have Uribe, Ecerg could be ready, Gasser...but not ready for the opening day roster. I also think with just a small tweak Matt Bush could become just dominant. The rotation takes a massive hit, but hopefully better health, a young phenom and the BP make up for that. And the lineup is rounded out very well. Now....how do you feel about the Brewers paying Willy Adames 5 million a year from 2030-2090? Because...if you're cool with that...I think you need to go back and make a slight adjustment!

They can go after Burnes and then sign him to an extension. As you say, they have the money. And as Brewerfan82 said, it's a starting point. But it's a reasonable starting point. Castillo signing a below market deal doesn't mean Woodruff will as well. He went from Cincy to Seattle and he loved it, so he signed. Woodruff is YOUNGER than Castillo, but it's a mater of months. It's irrelevant. Castillo just signed a team friendly deal and that's probably a good starting point with Woodruff, but it's unlikely he signs that same deal.

No, I think he's right. The GM specifically stated after this trade deadline, they were going to devote significant resources into competing...that they think their window is opening. I do think there's a very good chance they go after the top arms on the market(I don't think they sign deGrom or Verlander, but Rodon is certainly in play for them). Their only real salary commitments this year are Chris Davis. Money he's owed from his buyout and his deferred compensation. And...so is Bobby Bonilla. In one of the other deferred deals that doesn't get talked about, Bobby Bo gets 500K a year from the O's. Nothing like Bruce Sutter getting ~50M from the Braves for the 9.1M dollar contract he signed(just getting paid off in the last year or so with a final balloon payment of...9.1M after getting 1.2M since 1990). But that's all beside the point. The POINT is that Baltimore is clearly at the point where they've accumulated the talent, they were quasi competitive this year, and they've still got a loaded farm system. They're going to be going all in. I DON'T think they'll actually give up Grayson Rodriguez+Westburg+Johnson...but that's GOT to be the Brewers starting point. Maybe the Brewers need to throw someone into that deal. Maybe it's an OF prospect(they need a RFer, so if you had to throw in...Mitchell hypothetically, you could tweak that trade). But I don't think that's unreasonable.

If it's confusing, let me give ya a hand;

If it's confusing, let me give ya a hand;

I think one of the main points to remember is that...Stearns is leaving his position as POBO, but he leaves this team well stocked and we'll be reaping the benefits...hopefully of Jackson Chourio, Sal Frelick, Jeferson Quero...hopefully Gasser and Ruiz and so on and so on will be coming up over the next 3-4 years. So hopefully he'll have left us with the foundation of a young core of offensive players. But this is definitely the most important aspect. We've spent YEARS trying to develop just one stud. We had a guy here or there having various levels of success over the last 30-some years from Cal Eldred's incredible run in 1992 to Ben Sheets having a couple of great years, Yo was a really good, solid, reliable pitcher for a long time...but to develop Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Williams, to get the most out Chacin, to kinda re-ignite Wade Miley's career, Corey Knebel...I'm still not sure what this pitching school consists of exactly. I know the analytics have played a significant role in it...helping pitchers figure out which pitchers to throw more and which to scrap, whatever it was, it's turned the Brewers into one of the best teams at developing pitching...and he again, he leaves us in pretty good shape with Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Lauer, Ashby, Houser in our rotation with Gasser and Small expected to contribute.

I think one of the main points to remember is that...Stearns is leaving his position as POBO, but he leaves this team well stocked and we'll be reaping the benefits...hopefully of Jackson Chourio, Sal Frelick, Jeferson Quero...hopefully Gasser and Ruiz and so on and so on will be coming up over the next 3-4 years. So hopefully he'll have left us with the foundation of a young core of offensive players. But this is definitely the most important aspect. We've spent YEARS trying to develop just one stud. We had a guy here or there having various levels of success over the last 30-some years from Cal Eldred's incredible run in 1992 to Ben Sheets having a couple of great years, Yo was a really good, solid, reliable pitcher for a long time...but to develop Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Williams, to get the most out Chacin, to kinda re-ignite Wade Miley's career, Corey Knebel...I'm still not sure what this pitching school consists of exactly. I know the analytics have played a significant role in it...helping pitchers figure out which pitchers to throw more and which to scrap, whatever it was, it's turned the Brewers into one of the best teams at developing pitching...and he again, he leaves us in pretty good shape with Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Lauer, Ashby, Houser in our rotation with Gasser and Small expected to contribute.

Seems like a tacky thing to bring up now...and I'm not sure I understand what a "cocaine playboy," means exactly. Cocaine was widespread in the 1970s and 1980s and used by...MANY players...seems like a strange issue to bring up in 2022. Point is that's regarded by MOST fans are the era with the Brewers only two home grown HOFers who were the best and the 2nd best players on the Brewers lone World Series team and he started his career as a 21 year old in 1978 and through this period, he had a 23.9 WAR. Yeah. Cooper was great as well. I don't think anyone said otherwise...but I'd be willing to be the vast majority of Brewers fans remember that as the Yount/Molitor Brewers.

Seems like a tacky thing to bring up now...and I'm not sure I understand what a "cocaine playboy," means exactly. Cocaine was widespread in the 1970s and 1980s and used by...MANY players...seems like a strange issue to bring up in 2022. Point is that's regarded by MOST fans are the era with the Brewers only two home grown HOFers who were the best and the 2nd best players on the Brewers lone World Series team and he started his career as a 21 year old in 1978 and through this period, he had a 23.9 WAR. Yeah. Cooper was great as well. I don't think anyone said otherwise...but I'd be willing to be the vast majority of Brewers fans remember that as the Yount/Molitor Brewers.

I think if you extended Adames long term, he'd likely be far more inclined to slide over and play 3rd. 3B should become even more important of a position defensively with the new shift rules. The SS is still going to be playing right behind 2B and the 3B closer to where the SS plays when they're straight up. The problem...while I do think he's more of the 2021 slash line when the BABIP is normalized, position players like Adames tend to get much longer deals. 8 years would be my guess at this point...whereas pitchers are generally a bit shorter. I'd give Willy a f ~5/80, see how it goes(but I'd also offer Burnes and then Woodruff deals first). See how they all turn out. If you could get Burnes, then you let the season playout, see where you're at with the other two. More likely than not, it'd be Woody or Adames...and at least you'd get a massive return for the first two.

I think if you extended Adames long term, he'd likely be far more inclined to slide over and play 3rd. 3B should become even more important of a position defensively with the new shift rules. The SS is still going to be playing right behind 2B and the 3B closer to where the SS plays when they're straight up. The problem...while I do think he's more of the 2021 slash line when the BABIP is normalized, position players like Adames tend to get much longer deals. 8 years would be my guess at this point...whereas pitchers are generally a bit shorter. I'd give Willy a f ~5/80, see how it goes(but I'd also offer Burnes and then Woodruff deals first). See how they all turn out. If you could get Burnes, then you let the season playout, see where you're at with the other two. More likely than not, it'd be Woody or Adames...and at least you'd get a massive return for the first two.

I'd argue deferring 135M that doesn't actually improve this team right now is a...bad idea.