Matt Breen

Jed Lowrie is due $10M in 2020. The Mets packaged him with Dominic Smith, get a grade-C prospect in return, and call it a day. They save themselves a big chunk of change. Brewers get a potential starting 1B, and a utility IF (if healthy). It's essentially buying five years of Smith - and whatever you can get for Lowrie - for $10M. Lowrie is a switch hitter, and could essentially play super sub around the infield (that's assuming you get someone else to play 3B). At 35, and coming off an injury, I wouldn't count on him for a lot more than that. But if he is healthy, he's a valuable asset. However, that's a big if.

Wheeler reportedly is going to make more than 5 years/$100M https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/zack-wheeler-bidding-already-in-nine-figures.html

I really like Strasburg as a player, but really scared of him as well due to his health. He had TJ surgery something 10 years ago. It's something that can recur after such a long time. It would be a huge risk to sign him to six years. But I also understand the reward.

Agree. But I also don't know what the club has in the works. Just have to be patient, which is not easy. No one likes the uncertainty.

I've locked this thread as we have gotten numerous complaints about the conduct of some posters. And I prefer to shut this down rather than institute any bans. Please, people, don't take the confrontation and anger and nasty snarkiness and to other threads. You have been warned.

Shaw, in my opinion, is totally better off leaving Milwaukee. If we think we are a contender, we can't afford to risk having 2019 Shaw show up. That's one of the nice things about a team not having a belief that they can make the playoffs. You can take risks. You give guys like Keon Broxton a chance. You sign a guy like Shaw - tell him the job is his - and hope he rebounds. But a team aiming for the playoffs and a title can't afford that kind of risk. Best for all parties to just move on. Keeping him around would just be awkward for everyone. I wish Travis well - just not against us.

You said it way more efficiently than I did. Well done!

Nelson and Shaw were tough, but right decisions. Just too much money there. Saladino no shock. Guerra was a toss up in my book, but I suspected he might be gone. He was slated to make around $3.5M, which is a good amount for an average reliever. Still, we need to replace a lot of innings. Claudio was the biggest surprise, in my opinion. I'm not dissatisfied, but just surprised. I'd rather Stearns dumped the guy now than hang on to him just because he had made a trade for him last year. Too many guys let their ego make decisions - and if the Claudio move was a mistake - I'm happy they admit it and move on.

I hope the trade for Urias lights a fire under Orlando, and he forces himself into the lineup. Competition can do wonders for some players. We shall see.

I thought the Twins would non-tender Cron. He was pegged to make nearly $8M in arbitration - a lot for a guy who just isn't that good. With him a FA, Cron's an interesting option. He'll be 30 in January, so he's not too old. He's right handed, and his career splits aren't too bad - .823 OPS vs lefties, .758 vs righties. However, this has become more pronounced as he has gotten older. Over the last three years, OPs vs lefties is .923, while against righties it is .727. This trend concerns me, and makes me want to label him a lefty-mashing platoon player going forward. Not sure if that's fair, but it's something to consider. His lack of defensive versatility - he pretty much only plays 1B - does limit him as well.

This is exactly right. You listen. Can't hurt to listen. If someone wants to pony up a fortune, then you consider it. Otherwise, you still have the guy under contract for a long time, and you can always deal him later.

I assume you mean their team budget. yep

I'm still kind of miffed at this move by the Reds. Did they really need Moose? I mean, they now have Eugenio Suárez locked up through 2024 (and a reasonable option for 2025), Votto through 2023, and now Moose through 2023. A 35-year old Moustakas at 2B will be interesting to see. Why not go less (in years and money) on Schoop or Villar or someone like that? And then redirected the savings to other areas of need. My only thought is that the Reds could trade Eugenio Suárez - who they could get a ton for - and shift Moose over to 3B. I guess all will be revealed in time....

Ton on money per year, and a ton of years. I was thinking he was looking at 3 years, $36 million tops. This deal blows that out of the water. This was what I was thinking was his ceiling - or close to it. The four year deal is a bit of a shocker.

Please don't even joke. All it takes is one person to drive the topic off the rail.

As everyone says, good for Moose. He was a good player for us. I would have preferred he signed out of the division, but such is life. I am a bit skeptical of the years and price tag, so in the end, I'm glad it's someone else and not Milwaukee. But I will miss the guy.

Saw Knives Out this weekend. It was really, really fun. Not perfect, but a great time.

Recently I heard my 20-year old son describe the 'okay boomer' thing to someone. And the one thing that he explained that isn't really said in this thread (at least that I saw) is that 'okay boomer' isn't just about dismissing someone older because they don't understand something. It's dismissing them when they refuse to listen or believe something in spite of evidence offered. It is a frustration when talking about facts and truths and ideas - and simply be ignored, put down, and dismissed. It is a very real frustration for some people. And so they say, 'Why spend the time and energy discussing something when I am inevitably going to be ignored - or even disparaged.'

To me, this is why I think someone will nab Brown. He's not an A ball pitcher. He's a 26 year old at AAA. Yes, he sucked last year. But before that, he was an interesting arm. Sure you'd like to give him more time at AAA, but coming into 2019, most people didn't see him that far off of being in the majors. Thus a bad team can take him, tell him he's a reliever and to prepare as such, and give him a bullpen gig in the majors. He was that far off from such a gig a year ago. Work with him, maybe iron out any issues you find (if any), and if he does okay, you're gold. You got an arm for the next half-decade. If not, no big deal. Your team isn't winning anyways. Just return him to Milwaukee. No harm, no foul.

I'd pass on J.D. Davis - at least as a headliner for a guy like Hader. Davis is a bad defensive player. Maybe he could be okay at 1B - but he's bad at 3B and LF. The bat certainly plays, but the glove is worrisome.

Okay, let's try this again. Using cost estimates from MLB Trade Rumors and Fangraphs. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/mlb-free-agent-predictions-2020.html https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2020-top-50-free-agents/ Off Season Moves - VERSION 1 - Trade Josh Hader to the Mets for Jeff McNeil and Dominic Smith a prospect or two. - Sign Stephan Strasburg - 6 years/$180M - Sign Jason Castro 2-years/$12M - Sign Avisaíl García - 2-years/$14M - Sign Jordan Lyles - 2-years/$10M - Sign Josh Lindblom (from Korea) - 2 years/$8M - Don't tender Shaw, Nelson, Saladino. Saves over $10M. Hitters C - Pina ®/Castro (L) 1B - D. Smith (L) 2B - Hiura ® SS - Urias ® 3B - McNeil (L) OF - Braun ®, Cain ®, Yelich (L), Garcia ®, Gamel (L) IF - Arcia Corner IF - Ideally find a right handed hitting player who could handle 1B and 3B I think you would end up with a nicely balanced lineup. Pitchers SP - Strasburg, Woodruff, Houser, Lyles, Lindblom, Lauer, Burnes (two of the latter four players would move to the bullpen) RP - Knebel, Claudio, Guerra, Suter, Peralta, other young guys such as D. William, T. Williams, Yardley, etc. Notes - Castro - a lefty - platoons with Pina forming a nice set of receivers (if a bit offensively challenged) - Strasburg offers a top-of-the-rotation pitcher we lack. Could go after Cole if we want to spend more - and give more years - You let Lyles, Houser and Lindblom slot in the rotation (along with Woodruff and Strasburg) - but don't be afraid to use Burnes or Lauer if someone shines - or there is an injury or someone falters. Otherwise, the non-starters move to the bullpen. - Smith looked like a potent bat last year - but in limited time (177 ABs, 13 HR, .881 OPS). Becomes our full time 1B. But you could use Braun could against lefties if willing. - I'd work Peralta as a reliever from day one. I think he could be really good in that role if he focused on it. - Arcia is utility IF. Perhaps he steps up his game and keeps SS job. If so, Urias still gets lots of reps at 2B, SS and 3B. - Garcia is a solid, but not spectacular RF. Should hit around .280 and get you 20 HR. Not a great player, but decent. You'd need to manage playing time between all the guys, but between injuries, pinch hitting, DHing, and (perhaps) Braun playing some 1B, it would be manageable. - McNeil slots in at 3B full time. Salary - Cost is now about $120M. Still need to add a reserve corner IF, and maybe a relief pitcher. ALTERNATIVE VERSION If we can spend more money, here's a different version: - Don't sign Lyles or Garcia. Live with an OF of Braun, Cain, Yelich, Gamel and a lesser guy (meaning cheap) - Sign Wheeler for 5-years/$100M. Gives you a rotation of Strasburg, Wheeler, Woodruff, Houser and one of Lindblom/Lauer/Burnes. Would be pretty interesting. This would make the payroll about $130M, which is probably doable, but not much room for any additions. Would be risky. Would really need some guys to step up in the bullpen.

Here's my Hader to the Mets trade: Mets get: Hader Brewers get: Jeff McNeil, 1B Dominic Smith, LHP David Peterson McNeil goes to 3B (5 years of control remaining) Smith goes to 1B (5 years of control remaining) Peterson is a former 1st round pick from Oregon who has had middling success thus far - reaching AA last year. But he has some good peripherals, and could be a middle of the rotation type starter. Won't help in 2020, but could down the road. Yes, you open a massive hole in the bullpen, but you potentially fill two position slots - for very cheap. Just an idea.

I have changed the title of this thread from 'Hader to Astros' to 'Hader trade ideas' so it can be a general catch all for Hader conversations.

The article doesn't really offer anything new. As noted, it says that the Brewers are willing to listen on just about any player on the roster - including Hader. And Rosenthal quotes 'major league sources' that say Hader is available. The price would be huge, and most any contending team (at least with money available) would love to have Hader. Rosenthal speculates that the Mets would be interested - but he doesn't have any specific evidence for this (and says so) - other than Mets GM Brodie Van Wagenen used to represent Hader (and Van Wagenen has acquired several of his former clients). He notes that Hader has been used heavily the last two years, and that he will get expensive very quickly. Those two factors may make the Brewers willing to listen if teams comes calling. Again, none of this is new stuff. Just Rosenthal chatting up the possibilities, which his fine.

I'll give my two cents on Puig. We all know he's a bit off kilter at times. Just gotta live with that. That aside, he has several attractive qualities: 1. Turns 29 this month, so as long as a contract is for now more than 2 or 3 years, you're getting him before he goes into a traditional decline phase. 2. His price won't be massive. Predictions are on Fangraphs have him at 3 years/$39M. At mlbtraderumors.com he's at 1-year/$8 million. 3 years/$39M gets a bit rich for me, but if it's a couple of million less, then it's not a huge outlay in dollars. 3. He fits in defensively really well - as Yelich simply plays LF most of the time. Also, his defense has generally been rated as solid. Nothing special, but at least average. It's not like you have to mess with Braun or Thames in the OF. Puig is a decent defender. 4. Puig is pretty much a known quantity. He's going to hit around . 265 (last three years - .267, .267, .263) and get you 25 or so HR (last three years - 24, 23, 28). Probably get you around an .800 OPS. 5. Puig doesn't have big splits as a batter, so he's not a liability on either side of the plate. Interestingly, in his career, he's hit right handers better than lefties - even though he's right handed. OPS vs righties is .845, OPS vs lefties is .762. Last year it was .783 vs righties and .791 vs lefties. I know people will scream 'club house cancer' and stuff like that. Perhaps it is true, but it's the club's job to determine how the guy will affect the team's chemistry. And the guy is 29 - not 23. People can grow up. Even if they still do some stupid things. In the end, if the dollars and years are reasonable, Puig would be a good fit. You'd have to figure out how to get ABs for all the OFs, but if that can be managed, it is an interesting idea. Again, assuming the club feels he'd be okay in the clubhouse.