PeaveyFury

Kevin Mench makes Adam Dunn look like a gold glover when he's on defense.

Fair enough. I'm fortunate enough to be able to leave it on the counter, so it seriously cuts my time by 8 minutes or more.

not any quicker than the oven (maybe a couple minutes). I'm not sure how that's possible- it takes roughly the same amount of time to cook the pizza in both the oven and the Pizazz, minus the 5-10 minutes of pre-heating.

Would we have to pay Brady Clark? You'd have to pay him the veteran minimum, nothing else.

In fairness to Al, I think he was counting the games where "should be" starter Carlos Villanueva has bailed out guys who inexplicably start ahead of him. What three games did that happen in during that stretch? And even if it did, that's a pretty random thing to be suddenly quantifying as a quality start, and a heck of an assumption by you in taking that to be the reason for why he was way off in his 'number'.

I guess your numbers don't lie Well, they do because the actual number of quality starts since the actual number for quality starts in the last two weeks is 5 (since 6/20). Five quality starts in 13 games is actually quite poor, and I hope they don't struggle like that all year.

You're talking about aquiring a player this year... I think we're talking about both this year and long term all along, unless you've been claiming that Inman and Jeffress are going to help the big league team this year. If you trade away all of the top prospects for rental players what's left? Again, you're exaggerating, as no one here is talking about trading away ALL of the top prospects for anything. All along it's been ONE of the top prospects, like Parra or Inman or whomever. Cappy wasn't drafted as a top of rotation pitcher, just like Hart never was a top prospect. Again, those 2 guys are the exception to the rule. The exception to the rule? Let's look at the Brewers' rotation: Sheets, high/mid first rounder, Cappy 8th rounder, Suppan 2nd rounder, Bush 2nd rounder, Vargas undrafted free agent. So those are 4 out of 5 members of the rotation that weren't drafted in the top 20. Being drafted as a 'top of the rotation pitcher' doesn't make you more likely to actually be one. In fact, there are probably more exceptions to your rule than pitchers who actually fall into it. You can find a considerable amount of 'top of the rotation pitchers' drafted in the 1st that failed... see Kyle Peterson for the Brewers for a not-so distant reminder just from out past. If Cappy wasn't a top of the rotation pitching prospect, what does that make Yo and Inman or Manny? Isn't that MORE of a reason to trade them if they really ARE the exception to the rule? As you pointed out, they've had a very low flame out rate recently, sooner or later the law of averages is going to start swinging back the other way. All the more reason to move one or two of the prospects in a good deal. As it has often been said, there's no such thing as a pitching prospect. They could possibly be the next Sheets, but the odds are that they'll be the next Nick Neugebauer, Kyle Peterson, Edwin Jackson, whomever. I just don't see how trading away some combination of one of our 'top guys' with blocked guys like Gwynn or Jackson is going to destroy the farm system and hurt us for years to come when a return is going to either be a rent a player that returns two high draft picks back into the system, or as discussed in this thread, someone like Otsuka who not only helps the team this year, but is Brewer property for 2008 and 2009 for after Cordero leaves as well.

No love for the local Palermo's? 5 for 10 at Woodmans (which used to be much sweeter at 6 for 10 not 2 months ago). It's not exceptional by any means, but it's a solid pizza. Red Baron is incredibly underrated, though at 3 for 9 for the Red Barons., I usually go for the Palermos to get the two extras for the same price.

Jackson, Sarfate, etc... these guys aren't top pitching prospects. What major league team would be foolish enough to trade a Buehrle or someone similar for AAA relievers and an AAA starter with an ERA over 4? You're talking about trading away an Inman, Jeffress, or both for that type of player. I think Parra, Gwynn and Sarfate gets it done for sure, but I digress. As the deadline gets closer and trade talks go no where, the Sox' reported demands will go down considerably. Melvin has done an amazing job getting something out of nothing, but are the Brewers in position to continue to make those sort of scrap heap pickups for starters? They're going to have more Sexson/Lee/Overbay situations where valuable Major Leaguers are going to be moved because of impending free agency and such. Sheets is a candidate next year depending on how negotiations go, and then so is Cappy. And sorry to say, but the Brewers are going to have the fiscal resources to keep some of our young, great players, but there's going to be no way in 4-5-6 years that we're going to be able to sign Fielder/Hardy/Braun/Hart/Weeks/Hall/Villanueva/Gallardo to huge multi-year deals, thus giving us definite talent to get back huge returns. Wouldn't that be shooting ourselves in the foot? Only if you don't have something to replace them, which is my point. We've excelled exceptionally well at drafting and developing position players, and we're seeing that with the Major League club right now. But in 5 years, you hope to either have replacements ready, or you get something back in a Sexson-like deal to supplement the team that's already there. Heck, getting Cordero for Lee hasn't really hurt the team's offense at all with the emergence of Hart, and we got a great closer back in return. What top of the rotation college arm would fall past the first 20 slots regardless of signability? Our #2 starter, Chris Capuano, was an 8th round pick out of college. It took me all of 2 minutes to find that example, I'm sure there are plenty of others. It's about finding and developing the talent regardless of where it's taken. Heck, the top pitching prospects that you're so deadset against trading away at all costs include a 3rd rounder out of HS in Inman, a 16th rounder out of college in Parra, a HS pitcher picked 16th overall in Jeffress, and even Gallardo was a 2nd rounder out of HS. I'd say the Brewers have actually had pretty good success so far with their late 1st-3rd drafting of HS pitchers.

Peavey - Dont you want to see what Manny can do on the Major league level before you look into moving him for something "bigger and better"? Sure, I'd love to. But is letting him waste away in middle relief as a LOOGY while he's about 8th on the depth chart for SP's really the best way to utilize him? I think we've been EXTREMELY spoiled as fans with the success of our prospects so far. Prince is an MVP candidate, Hardy's in the AS game, Hart could have been in the AS game with another month, Braun is probably the favorite for ROTY, Gallardo was great in his three appearances, Villy is our 2nd best starter and pitching out of the pen. Weeks is the only one that's even been close to a disappointment to this point, and even he's been mediocre to slightly above average when healthy. Point is, you don't normally have success rates like that, and some of the guys left in the minors will undoubtedly flame out. My money is on the guy with a severe injury history that wasn't even a prospect anymore until about a month ago. I really think the Perfect Game is clouding a lot of opinions on him, and that's why its a great time to sell high and get a great return.

Trade all the position players you want, but please keep the young pitching prospects. I want no part of any deal that includes young pitching coming back. The kid may flame out due to injury, or he may be a very good 2 or 3... you just don't know. So we shouldn't get young pitchers back because they may flame out, but we shouldn't trade our young pitchers when they're the same unknown? I'm not following your point, I think. Peavey has pointed out in the past that you get draft compensation if a player leaves in free agency. However you have wait a year to draft a kid and sign him Well, six-seven months. even then we're talking about High School arms in the sandwich round They could always be college arms as well.... either starting in Arizona or Helena, that are easily 5 years away. Yo was a high schooler that made it here in three years, and Inman is on pace to do the same. Sure, it could be 5 years, but it also could be much less. You're citing a lot of opinion and your own speculation as fact and not even presenting all the available options. I would hate to be on the other end of a Franklin for Villy deal. Sure it'd stink, but Manny Parra turning into Villy 2 for another team is a small price to pay for a pennant. We'd also be acquiring something considerably better than Wayne Franklin who was largely horrible by every measure. And our front office/scouting staff should be trusted a bit more than the people compiling the AARP teams in SF for years. It's just too difficult to replace pitching depth when you aren't able to compete and overpay for the top end free agent pitchers. The Brewers have had no trouble at all. Their rotation includes one home-grown player, three young, unproven pitchers acquired in three separate trades, and a free agent signing. The bullpen has two home grown guys, a minor league free agent, two waiver wire pickups, and two guys we've traded for. Why change what's working? EDIT: That doesn't even address how you solve the logjam at AAA as well. What do you do with Sarfate, Jackson, etc? Let them rot in AAA?

Man, it seems like every close call at the bases is going against us lately.

They certainly could be stretching him out for a move to the rotation.......

Peavey is going for the consecutive series record of dropping that same quote! Yep. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif It's nice to actually play these guys and see how good Ned actually is compared to the NL Central managers not named Larussa.

This is why I'm astounded when some people claim Jim Tracey is a better manager than Yost. Just keep giving us those free baserunners, thanks.

I love getting beat by slap hitting CF's that were hitting .230 coming into the game. Of course the Pirates are saying the same thing about our backup catcher, I'd imagine.

Benoit's doctor indited on seven charges: sportsillustrated.cnn.com...ml?cnn=yes

How in the world does Hall/Jenkins have 3 AB's vs VBS, and the only other Brewer with even 1 AB is Wise? Freaky.

Well, the Franklin thing was a pretty big fluke, as the guy had like a 5.50 ERA, while Vargas is around 4. He's keeping them in it, and the bullpen is holding on, not a run being scored in the 8th inning in a game that Franklin left in the 5th. And afterall, Franklin DID have 13 losses that year....

HBO, I think in the Sopranos/Rome time slot (Sun. 8 CT).

I believe Dunn's option is voided if he is traded, just so you know. Then I stand completely corrected. Ryan- I'd imagine after the option is officially picked up, he can no longer void it. I'm just not sure how to quantify the risk in any given case. I'd like to know more about how to set the odds on pitchers, given the timing, nature, and severity of their injuries. That's the (multi)million dollar question. You'd think shoulder, then elbow would be 1 and 2 on the list of concerns and injury severity. No idea how to quantify it otherwise. I guess it's a situation where I'm much more comfortable going forward with a guy like Sheets who while labeled injury prone, has had problems with inner ear and his back rather than someone with elbow or shoulder issues, even if they're a couple years removed from them.

Not terribly surprising, but yeah, the timing is pretty goofy.

And the sad thing is, it is very true. I'm sure Taco bell was thrilled with that e coli outbreak publicity. And Dole bagged, pre-washed salads sure are flying off the shelf after that whole salmonella/e coli thing from like 7 months ago as well....

In fact, all the Brewers did pretty well in the voting. Wow, you aren't kidding. Estrada 3rd, Prince 1st, Weeks 2nd, Hardy 2nd, Counsell 6th (!!!!), Jenkins 6th, Hall 8th, Hart 10th. Pretty amazing showing, actually.

A lot of pitchers with significant injury histories do get injured again, but a lot of others -- Capuano is one example -- get healthy and contribute a lot. That is a great point. My main reasoning however is that players with significant injury histories are considerably more likely to have problems going forward than those that have been healthy. Any time a pitcher has elbow or shoulder issues, its a huge deal. Obviously as you mentioned though, it doesn't mean all of them are going to be oft-injured going forward. Adam Dunn? Maybe; I'm not sure even he would make a big enough difference to justify paying Parra as three months' rent. Dunn would be a year and three months rental, as he has an option for 2008. Just for the record.