adambr2

Real clutch AB there Aguilar. Not that Thames would have done better, he has been so awful.

LOL this team can screw up anything.

This is part of the reason I'm not really buying us as contenders. We're had every chance to put ground between us and the division, we're just not good enough to do it. It's not that we're bad, we're basically a .500 team, but . 500 is not winning the division.

How bad is post-April Thames? Jeez. That said, this is on Junior sucking.

Should have probably traded the fluke Guerra when we has a chance. Also congrats Villar, took you all of one PA back to do something stupid.

Well back in it.

Fastball velocity down about 1.5 mph I think so far this year. Think I'm done watching this one tonight. That's with the new method of measuring velocity too. So probably more like 3 MPH.

Guerra is absolutely worthless to us if he's sitting at 90-91 all year .

Time to put the Thames is better with Braun theory to the test.

That's a pretty loaded bench now either way, no? Perez, Aguilar, Villar/Sogard, Vogt. Is there a better bench in baseball?

Which do you prefer and hold as more accurate, and why?

Focus right now isn't on rebuilding, it's on winning a very winnable division (have you looked at the lineups the Cubs are throwing out there now?) The young talent acquisition phase of the rebuild is on hold while the division there to be won this year. Besides, their entire roster other than Sogard is controllable beyond this year. They are trying to increase the chances this year without surrendering young core and future core talent. This type of move makes sense. Fangraphs currently has us at 5.8% to win the division. We can debate all day on the accuracy of that but I think most would agree the odds are long. A 1 game division lead in June is meaningless. Heck, a 1 game division lead on Labor Day is pretty meaningless. Not really sure what you mean about the Cubs' lineups, 1-6 they're about as talented as any out there, they're just not playing well right now . I also don't agree that the young talent acquisition phase is on hold. That's a continuous process. They are trying to build a lasting long-term foundation, not cobble together enough talent to go for it when they have a small positive deviation from their expected record for half a season. Now that doesn't mean they aren't trying to win this year, and in that regard I do agree with you -- this makes sense, and moves like this make sense, I just think people will be disappointed if they expect bigger buys. But I would agree they are trying to increase chances with moves like these - the 2016 Brewers would have had no interest in Vogt.

I think you guys have me pretty well convinced Thames isn't tier 1, but I'm not convinced we don't have a player who couldn't bring a Lucroy type return. As good as Lucroy was he was a year and a half rental at a position that isn't really in demand at the deadline. Maybe I'm overestimating Knebel's market, but his effectiveness isn't overlooked around the league. The strikeout record might not have much meaning, but it says something about what kind of shutdown guy he is now, and he's very controllable. Anderson ...I don't know. Starting pitching is worth a ton, and to me he seems like more of a real believable breakout guy as a #2 starter right now compared to Nelson. But maybe that's just my own interpretation. Arcia carries a .700+ OPS and an elite glove at a premium defensive position, is 22 with a ton of upside, was a top 10 prospect and has 5.5 years of control remaining. If they were to offer him up in trade they had sure better ask for at least as much as they got for 1 year + 2 months of Lucroy if not more.

I could see Thames as a Tier 2 guy, but I think it's unfair to compare him to Carter. Thames still gets on base very well, Carter didn't .

Broxton is very cheap and controllable, fairly young, and carries an .813 OPS with power and speed at a premium position. He's very easily tier 2 IMO. I'm less confident about Thames as Tier 1, but I think it's crazy to suggest he'll have the worst contract on the team by September 1st.

Very fair. I considered Shaw for top tier as well, personally I love Shaw. It's just a little hard for me to believe that his value is markedly higher than a few months ago based on his season so far when he also had a hot first half last year. Guerra is also a tough one. Starting pitching is always coveted, and despite his age he's highly controllable. Personally I don't think he's looked as sharp this season as last, but the numbers are still there to a degree. So who knows.

I know we have had similar threads in the past, but I figure it was time for an updated one. Please note this is just for fun, I am not advocating being sellers at the moment and realize we are in 1st at the moment. Just analyzing hypothetically, if we sold, what kind of returns we could expect for our MLB players. I categorized them by tier, feel free to agree or disagree, these are obviously subjective. I did not include anyone on the roster who is still for MLB purposes considered a 'prospect'. I did include players imminently returning from the DL. Tier 1 - Thames, Arcia, Knebel, Anderson These guys are the cream of the crop for trade value. They may have that value from cheap controllable contracts (Thames), just from the market for relievers (Knebel), or youth and prospect status (Arcia), among other factors. I would estimate the minimum asking price on these players to be either a top 25 prospect, or a top 50+top 100, among other piece(s). Comp trade would be Lucroy. Tier 2 - Santana, Broxton, Nelson, Shaw, Guerra, Perez These players are just a notch below the Tier 1 and also highly controllable. They may simply be a bit too unproven yet to be tier 1, or be having somewhat of a high outlier season that keeps the asking price lower. Asking price should include a top 100 plus other piece(s), or similar value. Comp trade could be Will Smith or Tyler Thornburg. Tier 3 - Davies, Villar, Pina, Barnes, Sogard These players aren't going to bring back substantial returns, but they could net an interesting prospect or two. A low top 100 is unlikely but not out of the question. I would peg a comp return somewhere between Khris Davis, Adam Lind, and Jason Rogers, however one might rank those. Tier 4 - Hughes, Aguilar These players could probably net a lottery ticket or two or low to mid level prospect, comparable to perhaps an Aaron Hill return. Tier 5 - Drake, Torres, Franklin, Bandy These players are worth essentially nothing. It doesn't mean they aren't tradeable, but it would be a cash/PTBNL type deal. Other - Braun, Garza These two have contracts that a team would be unlikely to take in full, so the return could depend on how much salary we're willing to eat. In Braun's case I would guess if he got healthy and got going we could see a Tier 2 return if we were willing to eat a substantial amount and Tier 3 if not. *** If I didn't have to pick a Tier I would have put Barnes at about 2.5, as Tier 3 seems too low given the reliever market and his ability, he just doesn't seem to be established enough to bring a strong return. Likewise I would have had Sogard at 3.5, 3 seems awfully high for a journeyman guy who had zero value 6 weeks ago, but he's just been so good I don't think they would be willing to undersell him with how important he's been.

Nice comeback game for Davies. Player of the game Davies, honorable mention to Keon, a triple short of the cycle.

That 0-2 pitch to Swanson was nowhere close to being a ball. I know it gets said a lot but it's been remarkable to me how bad umpires have been this year. It's like they are daring the world to try to let machines call balls and strikes .

Broxton crazily is not that far off a 30/30 pace. I don't think he'll get it but considering how bad his slumps have been this year, that's pretty impressive. Got Davies staked to a nice big lead today, let's keep the runs coming.

Stay hot, Broxton .

Wow Shaw! How far did that go?

Thames just tries to pull everything.

(Fixed the above for you.) You really cannot see that Garza was injured in 2015 and 2016, and even so put up 1.4 fWAR in 2016? As for how much he's paid, it has been estimated that 1 WAR in free agency is worth $7-9M. Taking the midpoint, he was worth $11.2M last year and was paid $12.5M. Free agent starting pitching is expensive; please accept that reality. I'm sorry, but this idea that Garza "sucks" is just patently false. And if Garza puts up a 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half... well, that's the equivalent of a low #2/high #3 starter because a 4.25 ERA, among players with at least 60 IP in the NL, would currently rank 26th. I'm sorry if the stats don't fit your narrative. Garza being injured for 2 years is not a very strong argument for his value. Anyway, he is who he is at this point. He's not a terrible starter, but he's a highly replaceable one and barring a very strong 2nd half I am sure they will be happy to move on from him next year. I don't know why you keep bringing Davies into it. No one is giving Davies a pass. Davies is having a very poor season. He also is 24, has some developmental upaide and can be optioned to the minors, and was far better than Garza last year. He also makes about 4% of Garza's salary. He is a good value as a bottom of the rotation starter. Garza is not. Just because he might be technically 'worth' $12.5M in free agent dollars (though I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find a team that would give him that if he were a free agent today,) that does not mean he is a good value for a small market franchise.

Not a cent more than the collective bargaining agreement requires the Brewers to pay him. If he was a free agent after last season how much would he be making now? Irrelevant. Then what does that make Davies? You know him personally, or is that your interpretation of what you read in the media? Is that fact, or is that confirmation bias? The Brewers still have more than a month of baseball left on the calendar, and Melvin said Garza would be welcome to join the bullpen should he have a change of heart. Garza suggested that would not happen. "I'm not going to throw another ball, and that's it," Garza said. This is an okay, team first attitude? This is not an interpretation from the media, this is his exact quote. I find it incredible that the collective bargaining agreement that you brought up that requires the Brewers to pay him would ever allow a pitcher to refuse to move to the bullpen.