Car question--updated 6/28

[dadofandrew]

Our vehicle has a severe engine defect. It is using oil at a clip of about a quart every 1000 miles, and getting worse. We just found out is is not still under warranty due to odd accounting by the extended warranty company. We are looking at a rebuilt engine at $1100 plus labor or adding oil until it blows.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Teatoe993]

Trade it in as soon as you can.

[Houlie24x]

What kind of car? How is the odd accounting your fault?

[twobrewers]

Without knowing anything...or being much of a gear head for that matter...

It sounds like a head gasket. Depending on the value of the car, I would probably fix it.

Fix it and it should be good for a 100,000 miles. I know the bill sounds daunting - but are you going to buy another car for $1100? If nothing else is wrong with this one...why not just keep it?

Of course, I have heard plenty of stories about owners cleaning up their vehicles to look nice and then trading it in.

[Houlie24x]

A head gasket would most likely be putting antifreeze in the oil instead of burning it. He probably was already told whats wrong with it but I would guess bad valve seals something like that. I would also guess its some sort of Honda. The 1100 would also just be for the rebuilt engine, he would still have to pay more for labor. Either way if its a good car its worth it.

 

I would try getting some Lucas oil additive from Auto Zone or any other auto parts store if you plan to continue driving it while it burns oil. It could temporarily fix the problem or slow it down some, but that does depend on what the problem is.

[1992casey]

If I remember correctly, I believe Al has a Saturn SL, so it would have to be a 2002 or earlier.

[dadofandrew]

It is a 2002 Saturn SL1. They do not know why it is using oil, except that the wear marks in the engine are horrific.

 

And, with the labor, it's $2K at least.

 

Without getting too specific, the warranty company is saying the 6 year warranty is from the time the car was used as a demo...9 months before we bought it. Why we would pay for a 72 month warranty and get 63 months is a question I asked, and so did the dealer, and we were both blown off. Barring a successful threat, we're out of luck.

 

Also, there would seem to me to be a bit of an ethical problem with taking the car to another dealer and not disclosing this issue.

 

Is there something special about the Lucas additive, by the way?

 

Add this to the IRS issue hanging over our heads (though we are sure we do not owe the amount they say, the penalties and interest alone are $4K), it's been a rather negative week or two. That said, our son is healthy, and I married up.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[bullox]

It's got to be a seal on the block. A visual inspection would tell you exactly where it's coming from. $1100 just for parts is a real rape job for a GM car if it is just a seal, which I am guessing is the case.

 

 

 

Are you burning oil? If that is the case, then the piston rings are probably failing and oil is getting through to the combustion chamber. That being the case, you would need some real work done on the bottom end. If you are just leaking oil, take it elsewhere and look for another opinion at a trustworthy shop.

 

edit: posted this before I read your above post.

 

Are they telling you that there are wear marks, or do you know this to be the case?

[bullox]

Also, there would seem to me to be a bit of an ethical problem with taking the car to another dealer and not disclosing this issue.

 

 

That's your problem right there. Dealerships are the worst place to take a car for non-warranty work. Take it to a mom and pop shop and see what they tell you.

[Teatoe993]

I manage an auto repair shop. Seriously, just unload the car. Saturns are disposable cars. They aren't built to last. That is why they are so cheap. The car has very little resale value and is not worth putting that kind of money into it. Burning a quart of oil every thousand miles isn't that horrible. Trade it in on something else now before the car gets worse and isn't tradable. The dealer won't even keep your old car. All they are gonna do is take it to the auction and unload it themselves. Don't worry about ethics. How ethical are car dealerships?

[dadofandrew]

I did see wear marks, though I could not tell you if they are real or made by a pen. Considering they assumed the work would be paid for and are waiving 5+ hours of labor, I see no reason to doubt them. They are also footing the bill for my rental, which I will have a week or more, by the time this is all said and done.

 

Teatoe, hearing what you've heard, how long do you think I can run this car by simply adding oil every 500 miles?

[1992casey]

I've always felt Al's dealer was honest and fair, too. On one car I bought, they did some custom install stuff because I didn't like the original third party option; they gave me the parts at cost and put a cap on the labor.

 

Al, you should ask if this problem would affect what you'd get as a trade-in if you purchased a new vehicle from the same dealer. It could be that it might not matter to them.

[dadofandrew]

Casey, to be honest, a new car is something I want to avoid, I just need my current vehicle to survive in a mostly 45 mile radius of home. They did mention trading it in, so I think they would be plenty fair.

[brewcrewman17]

There's always insurance fraud...

[Teatoe993]

Teatoe, hearing what you've heard, how long do you think I can run this car by simply adding oil every 500 miles?

 

 

It is hard to say. In theory, you can go for a long time as long as the oil consumption doesn't get any worse. I see a lot of vehicles that only see short trips around town. That is a killer on an engine. My advice is to change the oil religiously. Use a good quality oil like Castrol. Think about moving to a thicker oil. You're probably using 5w-30. Move to a 10W-30. I would also put that Lucas oil additive in it as well. Then just keep an eye on your oil level every 500 miles or so and top off as necessary. Going through a quart of oil every 1000 miles is not normal on such a modern engine, but it is not terrible. My 73 BMW goes through that much if not more. And the motor was just rebuilt. But that is normal for something so old. As long as your car doesn't get any worse, the motor could last you for tens of thousands of miles if you keep up with the maintenance. But if the consumption increases, the motor is well on its way to the salvage yard. Trade the thing in before its too late.

[mothershipconnection]

The extended warranty thing is just nonsense. Don't you have documentation stating when your warranty begins and ends? You'd think the paperwork would clearly state something like "Jan 1, 2003-Dec 31, 2008", and not just "72 months". Whatever paperwork you have would probably be good to pass by the eyes of a lawyer.

[dadofandrew]

No it doesn't MS, in fact, I do have a sheet of paper that says 1/1/08*...the * is the thing that says "in-service date", then it was put down as 1/1/2008 because the dealer left the date of purchase blank. Doesn't matter, it's the first of the two.

[dadofandrew]

This may have got lost over the weekend, so if any at work folks have anything to add, feel free. They are going to give me what they call a "friendly" trade-in offer due to the problems, before I tell them to put it back together and I'll add oil as needed.

[JJHardy7]

I don't know if this helps at all (and you have probably thought about this), but some auto insurances cover mechanical breakdown. I believe Geico does and the deductible is $250. I've never tried this and my first reaction would be that the auto insurance most likely will decide that a major repair is too costly in relation to the value of a vehicle. Does anyone else know anything about this? I know with Geico you must have the auto shop contact Geico before any repairs are done.

[dadofandrew]

JJ, never heard of this. Thanks, though I doubt mine has it.

[dadofandrew]

Anyone who knows anything about cars can chip in here, just an update. After flirting with an extended warranty for used vehicles, we just decided to check the oil every 500 miles or so and add oil if necessary, and drive it until it blows up. I checked it once after 750 miles, and last night after 810...it is exactly on the "u" in full on the dipstick...so, no oil use in 1500+ miles since they put it back together.

 

My wife said maybe they "fixed" something by putting it back together...something tighter or whatever? That sounds strange to me, but it makes as much sense as anything else that has happened.

 

I know it was low once, as an oil change place told me the car had no oil on the dipstick after I went about 4500 miles between changes. They did 3 checks on it at Saturn...is it possible they forgot to fill it up each time, so when it used a tiny amount, it just added onto what was already used.

 

A question for Teatoe or whoever, should I tell them to leave it a half-quart low when I add the oil additive? I assume you don't just want extra volume in there.

[Teatoe993]

Yeah, it is totally quite possible the car was underfilled when your oil was changed in the past. A lot of times when you add oil during an oil change, it will appear full on the dipstick. But you are supposed to start the motor and let it run for a minute just to circulate the new oil throughout the motor and filter. After that, you are supposed to check the dipstick again and top off as necessary because it will appear low.

You can ask the place to add the additive for you, or asking them to underfill it just a bit will be fine too.

Still keep an eye on the oil level from time to time. But you might be in the clear on this one for now.

[dadofandrew]

I plan to keep checking it every 500 miles until I do not have it. Thanks Teatoe, appreciate your knowledge.