Press conference this morning: Janesville GM plant to close by end of 2009 (Last day of full production 12/23/2008)

[FVBrewerFan]

Someone said "there are many 20/30 somethings that have never had a domestic car in the driveway" (or words to that effect). There are also plenty of 20/30 somethings that have never had a better job than working at Burger King or Walmart, nor are they ever likely to. That's a very sad reality. The opportunities available to previous generations just aren't there anymore. Most of the good paying manufacturing jobs that were once available are now gone. The few that remain will soon be gone, if we don't change our ways. Where are your kids going to work... ?

 

Please note: I'm not casting aspersions upon the work ethic of the aforementioned 20/30 somethings, I'm merely pointing out the ever dwindling job opportunities afforded them.

 

What did generations do before manufacturing jobs existed? This is a natural evolution, and I don't think it's a sad reality. There are a ton of jobs out there that pay enough to support a family with minimal education (construction, trade contractors, truck driver, etc.) Not to mention the ever expanding medical and technology fields. Job opportunities are not dwindling, they are just different.

 

A bit OT, but our public eduction system not only has done a horrific job of teaching basic knowledge and skills, it has also failed misearbly in showing students what jobs are available and teaching skills needed to perform those jobs.

[TheCrew07]

If people would quit buyin' Jap cars, the big 3 wouldn't BE in trouble. Nor would their suppliers.... support personnel.... truck drivers.... etc, etc,etc, on and on and on.

Let us suppose for a minute that we, the American people, actually supported American workers and bought only American products. Hell, let's just simplify and stay on vehicles. If everybody that bought a Jap truck bought an American truck instead, do you think the Janesville plant would close and wither away? Not likely. More Americans would have jobs making more money with better benefits. Most of the money would stay here as opposed to going across the water. Where's the down side? There isn't one. We'd just have to quit making excuses and do what we know is right.

I work for one of the biggest union companies in the US, and every single bit of those 2 posts simply isn't true anymore.

 

Foreign car companies all have plants in the US to directly complete with American automobile manufactures, like it or not they provide jobs and help bolster local economies the same as US automobile manufucturers. Furthermore, the US doesn't produce nearly enough goods to meet the comsumption of it's own population, this country comsumes more product than it produces, therefore their will always be a reliance on foreign products.

 

The union model has been outdated for nearly 30 years, especially as the world progresses towards a global economy. With the rising cost of health care in this country companies simply cannot afford to get their people hurt anymore, it's too expensive... the high wages union members earned were fine when American businesses were competing against each other, but again in a global economy the union model doesn't exist around the world, foreign companies can produce the same product much cheaper than a American company can. In order to compete globally, companies are forced to lower their manufacturing costs. Once one company in an industry moves production overseas, pretty much every other company in the industry is forced to follow suit. I was at one of the larger farm implements producers in the state last year. While I was working on the computer system we started talking about manufacturing, and it turns out that the company buys the raw ore in the US, ships it to China for processing, then pays to ship the steel back here to the US to assemble the products. They've been able to grow their business by keeping their product very competitive price wise, which led to more jobs here in WI, but that doesn't do anything for jobs in the American Steel industry.

 

Unions hung their hat on the buy American strategy, and it's never really worked, and it never will. Unfortunately the products we make are no longer the highest quality products out there. Also, foreign manufactures started producing goods right here in the US to directly combat that campaign. Slam the Japenese all you want, but the workers over there actually care about the quality of the product they produce. It's fair to say that in this country, the employee is more concerned with themselves.. there might be some pride in the product that is produced, but generally we're much concerned about ourselves. I actually bought a foreign car (European) 4 years ago for the fist time, and I will never by another American automobile. I was floored by the difference in how the car handles, how the car rides, and how well it runs. It was an eye opening experience for me personally. My income is somewhat fixed, I get a small raise every year, but I do my best to live well below my means and invest so I can retire comfortably at 55. I'm going to buy the best product available for the money I'm willing to spend. It doesn't matter if it's a hard drive, a big screen TV, or an automobile. My main concern is quality for the dollar, if a company wants a consumer like to me to buy their product, then they should manufacture a better product.

Other's have already pointed out that the US is transitioning towards being more of a service driven economy than a manufacturing economy, this is the single biggest factor leading to the demise of the unions, that point has been beat into the ground.

 

Unions are a relic of a bye gone era... it's that simple.

[Roscoe Chill]

Some of the previous posts have me wondering: What exactly is an "American-made car". Chrysler isn't a US company anymore. And aren't Toyota's and Honda's built here in the US? So the Japanese carmakers are employing American workers. So what's the difference, beside the corporate parent not being in the US?

 

The cars the companies build. I'm not against anything because it is American made or an American company. I would love to have an American car. I'm against (for lack of a better word) the American car companies because of the products they roll out. Like I said, I'm not buying a Neon. I'm not buying a Ford Focus. These alternatives that they have "competing" with say the Honda Civic, are not even close as far as quality of car. I've heard great things about the new Impala. And that's great. But I bought a Honda last summer, because I wanted a quality car that got good gas mileage, and one that historically doesn't have major mechanical issues I will end up paying for someday. And by the way, you're right, my Honda was built in Ohio. So the whole taking away American jobs angle just isn't right.

 

I live in Janesville, so this will affect me. But is it really all that surprising that this happened when this plant is building the monster gas guzzlers they are building? GM swam in the profits that these vehicles provided for them the last few years without looking at the big picture. So blame the American consumer? No way. Blame GM.

[berniebrewer4life]

What matters most to me is the experience behind the wheel.

That's exactly it. I never thought I'd buy a foreign car, but after 12 years of non-stop problems with the crap that GM sells, I had enough. Switched to Honda 4 years ago, and haven't had a problem since. It will take a lot more than a few good reports, to ever get me to reconsider.

Bingo, same thing here. It didn't matter if it was Ford or GM, both always gave me and my family problems. We switched to Toyota about 6 years ago and have never had problems yet. They just seem to be better made cars.

 

 

How long have companies like Toyota had hybrid vehicles they have been promoting, and people have been buying up, since they are getting tired of paying so much for gas?

 

The Prius went on sale in 2001, LONG before any other competitors were making hybrids.

[ccbrew]

GM swam in the profits that these vehicles provided for them the last few years without looking at the big picture. So blame the American consumer? No way. Blame GM.

Finally! While I can feel for Janesville, I don't understand why some people find it necessary to defend GM's practices and business model as a whole. They were content with sitting at the top and raking in the money, while others were innovative, quick in changing to market conditions, and willing to adapt to consumer tastes.

 

I find the backlash against the Toyota Tundra to be somewhat humorous. It's a car built by Americans in America, for the specific purpose of being driven in America. While the brand is undeniably Japanese, it's not actually sold in Japan. Toyota is trying to beat GM and Ford in their own game.

 

Then again, I've never driven a pickup truck so maybe I don't "get it".

[jcr0nk]

didn`t the state invest money for the remodeling of the janesville plant just a couple of years ago?

[hawing]

didn`t the state invest money for the remodeling of the janesville plant just a couple of years ago?

Yes. I believe the state would like to try to get some of that back, however slim the odds are of that working out.

 

Incidentally, nice avatar and signature, jcr0nk.

[Roscoe Chill]

Actually I think that GM owes $10 million (?) to the state for closing at this time. I'm not sure if it was for remodeling or the Highway 11 bypass that was pretty much built just for GM, or both.

[LouisEly]

I don't put it past our government to do nothing about the situation.

 

I don't necessarily know that it is the government's job to do anything about it. There is no "right" to oil or gas. They are commodities just like anything else, and go by supply and demand. Right now demand is skyrocketing because of the rapidly growing economies of countries like China, India, Russia, etc.; US oil consumption has been fairly steady and we are using less and less of a percentage of the global oil consumption. If gas gets too expensive, find other means. Live close to work. Move to a warmer climate where you can bike to work most of the time. Buy an electric golf cart to make short trips with (one of my neighbors has one - it has license plates and everything). Carpool with coworkers.

 

In major cities the government should push for public transportation, but this is a democracy so people can vote against the implementation of things like light rail. These people therefore have no right to complain about the cost of gas. The other problem with public transportation is that people don't respect it; people trash it, it is not kept clean, so most people don't want to take it. Vote for public transportation, use it, and keep it clean and everyone wins.

 

The funny thing about capitalism is that it will correct itself to gravitate towards what is most profitable; if the price of oil keeps rising, the relative cost and profitability of using alternatives will rise and society will gravitate towards other means. More people will use public transportation. More shippers will use rail. Companies will invest in and implement more alternative energies. I've noticed that traffic has been significantly lighter the last month or so here in LA; not sure if that is related to school getting out (lots of commuters to the colleges) or the price of gas, but I have been getting home in record time lately. There is a big plus to high gas prices in big cities - less congestion.

 

I will grant you that the government does have a little responsibility - why solar panels are not mandatory on all buildings in the southwest is beyond me. But for the most part it is capitalism and supply and demand.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Actually I think that GM owes $10 million (?) to the state for closing at this time. I'm not sure if it was for remodeling or the Highway 11 bypass that was pretty much built just for GM, or both.

The 11 bypass and the addition of Ruether Street that makes it quite a bit easier for the big rigs to get from the plant out to I-90 and vicey versey.

 

[cnycerveceros]

I grew up in Janesville. I haven't lived there for almost 10 years now, but I still go back at least yearly. I don't have many direct connections to the plant, but certainly I've known a lot of people who worked there or had family members that did. When I was a kid almost every other house on my block had a GM employee. Since I've left Janesville I've lived in 'rust belt' towns that lost their main manufacturing jobs and the towns are so much smaller than they were in their primes. My primary concern is that Janesville is able to maintain population and not end up with more empty buildings and closed businesses. How will this affect the local tax structure and the public schools? What are the other major employers in Janesville? Which ones are most independent of GM? Which ones are left that don't require a college education? Are their any new employers coming?

[Weirdos19]

Didn't page through the whole thread, but I'll give my .02 anyway.

 

This is a huge blow for Janesville. Being a business owner in Janesville, I deal with UAW people all the time.

 

But, I also think this may be scare tactics to get eligible people that make $100,000/year to retire. They tell them they are closing in a year and a half? Why? So they can get those people who don't want to transfer to retire. Then they will announce that they are saving the Janesville plant and will be making a couple of new vehicles right here. General Motors could then hire workers at the new entry level rate, $14-$15/hr, which translates to roughly 40 grand a year.

 

It's funny, GM closes 4 plants, then they announce the new hybrid car will be made next year. During the announcement, they say there will be 18 new models of GM products, replacing some of the old ones but making a wider selection to choose from.

 

BTW, the "Volt" car sounds like it could save the company. It's a plug in car. If charged up, you can go 40 miles on battery power, then the vehicle automatically changes to gasoline when the battery is done. So, if you have a local job, you only have to buy gas when you go out of town. Sounds like a winner to me.

 

People need to realize that GM owns the Janesville Plant. To sell the land and plant, they have to make sure that they decontaminate the ground under the plant. You cannot sell contaminated property. That will cost them millions and millions.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Without getting too political, (if that's still possible) it's interesting to note that the UAW president Walter Reuther long ago suggested to the auto companies that government health care and pension plans would be in their long-term best interest, and asked them to join him in lobbying for national health care and pensions. He argued that the companies would be better off down the road if the goverment had the responsibility for these costs, which he felt to be something to which all working people should be entitled. The companies, and many others, opposed such proposals, primarily based on a fear of socialism. Now the wheel has turned, and pension and health care obligations are cited by US auto companies as hindering their ability to compete with companies in other countries.

 

In the more recent past, the management of GM made a big mistake IMO by ignoring the possibility that fuel costs would increase in the way they have. They and their US competitors have focused on bigger vehicles, SUVs and trucks, which was arguably a strong strategy in the short term but showed a lack of foresight. Ford has done better in this regard than GM and Chrysler, with the Escape hybrid for example, but none of them can touch Toyota or even Honda. Add that to the very real difference in reliability and resale value that already favored 'imports,' and it's not a surprise to see GM having trouble.

 

My sympathies to anyone affected by this closing. I'm sure there are a lot of people whose economic situations were already tenuous that will feel this particularly hard...

[Diskono]

BTW, the "Volt" car sounds like it could save the company. It's a plug in car. If charged up, you can go 40 miles on battery power, then the vehicle automatically changes to gasoline when the battery is done. So, if you have a local job, you only have to buy gas when you go out of town. Sounds like a winner to me.

My electric bill is frightened!

 

[Invader3K]

http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/jul/16/gm-wont-disclose-timetable-closing/

 

A small update. Sounds like the plant closure could be happening sooner, possibly by the end of this year.

[lodiness]

Couldn't agree more about the Unions, pensions, etc. In my opinion GM is just a poorly run company with an inferior product. This is a perfect example of how a Union is killing the industry for American cars, and the companies unwillingness to change with the times.

[Invader3K]

Well, it sounds like GM is finally trying to change, it's just a shame that so many people in the Janesville area will be affected by this. As far as new products, the Volt does sound promising, but is still a couple years off. They're not out of the woods yet.

[Invader3K]

I thought this would be worth bumping, because the plant did officially close yesterday (at least for the time being). There's a report out that Janesville had the highest unemployment of any area in the state last month, and of course this doesn't help.

 

Hopefully the city and area can recover soon and attract some new industry.

[Weirdos19]

It is more than a bit scary down here in Janesville. I've never seen so many SUV's, boats, and Harleys for sale, cheap. If you're looking for one of those items, I'd suggest looking in the Janesville Gazette or gazetteextra.com.

 

I own a bar down here that doesn't necessarily depend on GM. I have a lot of friends that are bar owners that depend on GM and Lear. I feel for them.

 

Now they are talking about getting rid of the jobs bank. That would put a ton of UAW workers on unemployment, cutting their pay basically in half. Gonna get real ugly around here soon.

[fondybrewfan]

It is more than a bit scary down here in Janesville. I've never seen so many SUV's, boats, and Harleys for sale, cheap. If you're looking for one of those items, I'd suggest looking in the Janesville Gazette or gazetteextra.com.

 

I own a bar down here that doesn't necessarily depend on GM. I have a lot of friends that are bar owners that depend on GM and Lear. I feel for them.

 

Now they are talking about getting rid of the jobs bank. That would put a ton of UAW workers on unemployment, cutting their pay basically in half. Gonna get real ugly around here soon.

I believe the Jobs Bank has already been eliminated because GW required it before he gave the Big 3 any money.

 

A part of me just wants the companies to fail and declare bancruptcy so they are forced to reorganize in a more fiscally responsible way, but I also feel for the thousands of people who would lose their jobs if even one of the Big 3 went under. But I suppose many of these long time UAW workers had to have seen a day or reckoning sooner or later, the US auto industry has been on a downward trend for a very very long time.