Ding dong, the shift is dead. Long live the pitch clock.

[homer]

pitch clock is more. for TV than in person. If you're at the ballpark you are pot committed to staying that whole game for the most part. TV not so much. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Right, so your kid has already died of boredom about 6 times before the difference between 2:40 and 3:00 happens. 
 

I have taken my son before…I don’t think 20 minutes is any better. When I had him and he was sub 5 years old I’d leave early anyway as it was just easier that way. I guess it’s 20 less minutes I have to ask myself why I was so dumb and brought a 3 year old to a MLB game.

I buy cheap tickets so that I don’t care if my kids force me to leave early but it’ll be nice to leave in the seventh or eighth instead of the fifth or sixth. 

[homer]

 

 

[owbc]

Watching the WBC last night, I found myself highly irritated at one of the Australian dudes who was stepping out of the batters box after every pitch. Even after watching just one game of spring training, it's already impossible to go back to the way it was before. 

[jerichoholicninja]

After seeing highlights of some asinine pitch clock violations (I'm in favor of it for the record) makes me wonder if some players are trying to make the rule look as stupid as possible so MLB is forced to revise or eliminate it.

[645]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:41 AM, homer said:

pitch clock is more. for TV than in person. If you're at the ballpark you are pot committed to staying that whole game for the most part. TV not so much. 

No it's not. The clock is for getting the players to play faster. but to you? You should watch the game, Not the clock.

In fact the TV needs to get a clue and don't show the clock.

[homer]

18 minutes ago, 645 said:

No it's not. The clock is for getting the players to play faster. but to you? You should watch the game, Not the clock.

In fact the TV needs to get a clue and don't show the clock.

I am talking about the length of the games.  Getting them under 3 hours is better for TV.

[torts]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:04 PM, owbc said:

Watching the WBC last night, I found myself highly irritated at one of the Australian dudes who was stepping out of the batters box after every pitch. Even after watching just one game of spring training, it's already impossible to go back to the way it was before. 

Right???  I never want to go back!

[dlk9s]

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

That ad is outstanding. 

[jerichoholicninja]

I can't be the only person who was waiting for the pitcher to throw over while Vogy had his head in the clouds and pick him off. That is the only acceptable way that should have ended.

[MVP2110]

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

9 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

 

 

I hope this continues, though I’m skeptical. I have a nagging feeling teams tried out the new running game and will immediately revert to previous trends once games matter. 

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm assuming the number of games is similar but without knowing that it's tough to know what to make of it. I really don't think there will be a noticeable difference in the regular season though.

[KeithStone53151]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I hope this continues, though I’m skeptical. I have a nagging feeling teams tried out the new running game and will immediately revert to previous trends once games matter. 

That'll probably true of the old school set in their ways managers. The younger analytics-driven managers will probably have their players running like crazy assuming they have personnel for it. I'm expecting a lot more pitchouts this year than we've seen recently. Not a ton, but a fair amount more considering the limited throw-overs.

[owbc]

3 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

That'll probably true of the old school set in their ways managers. The younger analytics-driven managers will probably have their players running like crazy assuming they have personnel for it. I'm expecting a lot more pitchouts this year than we've seen recently. Not a ton, but a fair amount more considering the limited throw-overs.

The guys with 80th-90th percentile speed are going to rack up the stolen bases. Everyone else will continue to not steal. 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

That'll probably true of the old school set in their ways managers. The younger analytics-driven managers will probably have their players running like crazy assuming they have personnel for it. I'm expecting a lot more pitchouts this year than we've seen recently. Not a ton, but a fair amount more considering the limited throw-overs.

I truly hope this is the case.

[KeithStone53151]

12 minutes ago, owbc said:

The guys with 80th-90th percentile speed are going to rack up the stolen bases. Everyone else will continue to not steal. 

 

You don't think the guys in the 10-20 range of SB might end up closer to 30? The 40% of the slowest dudes still won't steal a meaningful amount. I think the guys that stole 10-20 will probably close to double their totals, the guys that stole 30+ previously...sky is the limit(or how often they get on base). That's about what I'm expecting, we'll have a better feel in about 3-4 weeks.

[jerichoholicninja]

How many pitchers care about holding runners on in ST? Most are just out there to get their pitches in.

[owbc]

24 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

You don't think the guys in the 10-20 range of SB might end up closer to 30? The 40% of the slowest dudes still won't steal a meaningful amount. I think the guys that stole 10-20 will probably close to double their totals, the guys that stole 30+ previously...sky is the limit(or how often they get on base). That's about what I'm expecting, we'll have a better feel in about 3-4 weeks.

There were a lot of guys with 80th percentile speed who only had 10-20 steals with the old rules. I agree that we'll see them double their totals. 

The really interesting scenario is when there have already been two pickoff throws. I enjoyed watching this in person at spring training. The pitcher has to be really smart about stepping off vs. throwing to first a third time. In the case that I saw, the runner took off while the pitcher was still set but he went home instead of stepping off and it was the easiest stolen base that I've ever seen. The pitcher has a lot to think about and that clock is ticking fast. 

 

[owbc]

29 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

How many pitchers care about holding runners on in ST? Most are just out there to get their pitches in.

I think the pitchers were more interested in dealing with runners than past spring training years because they needed to practice working with the rule changes. 

[JosephC]

4 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

 

 

 

At those rates, would anyone even notice unless it was pointed out to them?

2021 = 492 SB + 188 CS = 680 attempts in 417 games = 1.63 attempts per game

2023 = 767 SB + 203 CS = 970 attempts in 438 games = 2.21 attempts per game

2021 = 492 SB / 417 games = 1.18 steals per game

2023 = 767 SB / 438 games = 1.75 steals per game

Increase in attempts = 0.58 per game

Increase in stolen bases = 0.57 per game

Can't really see that 1 extra stolen base (and attempt) per every 2 games making MLB that much more of an exciting watch.  Manfred and MLB will probably claim that this is some sort of big win, but those numbers make me think that people who weren't watching baseball before aren't going to start tuning in now.

[Playing Catch]

23 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I hope this continues, though I’m skeptical. I have a nagging feeling teams tried out the new running game and will immediately revert to previous trends once games matter. 

I think, though, that there will be a trickle-down affect to how this affects the value that players can provide in future seasons. Hopefully, more runners on 2nd and 3rd with shifting restrictions makes having high contact hitters more valuable then they have been in recent seasons. Swinging and missing is worthless with a guy on 2nd. Even soft contact in that situation is much, much better for teams. Also, teams won't be able to count on K's and double-plays to get out of innings as often.

And it's not just SBs, but baserunning overall. Going 1st to 3rd would presumably be in play more often as well, especially if teams are incentivized to roster good baserunners.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, Playing Catch said:

I think, though, that there will be a trickle-down affect to how this affects the value that players can provide in future seasons. Hopefully, more runners on 2nd and 3rd with shifting restrictions makes having high contact hitters more valuable then they have been in recent seasons. Swinging and missing is worthless with a guy on 2nd. Even soft contact in that situation is much, much better for teams. Also, teams won't be able to count on K's and double-plays to get out of innings as often.

And it's not just SBs, but baserunning overall. Going 1st to 3rd would presumably be in play more often as well, especially if teams are incentivized to roster good baserunners.

For sure. I hope it has a cascading effect. More running and athleticism is good for the sport. 

[KeithStone53151]

Note to batters, step into the box and take your sweet time looking up at the pitcher. Step in at 8.1 seconds, don't look up until around 5. That is really limiting on the pitcher.