Game Thread (10/03/2022): Diamondbacks (Henry) at Brewers (Woodruff) - 6:40 PM CDT

[SomewhereInTime]

7 minutes ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

How are you going to get better?? Who is going to go in order to make it happen?? People seem to want the Brewers to get better and give up nothing. Who are they going to get without giving up the pitching?? They have very few players who anyone wants imo. Maybe a low level prospect for Renfroe. Look what they got for Hader. Luis Urias is not going to get you the pieces you need. 

What are you talking about?

[titletownking]

One of the least enjoyable winning seasons I can ever remember of any professional sports team I’ve followed. Team isn’t particularly likable and wouldn’t mind seeing them blow it up a bit. Til next year. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

15 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Rebuilds are way easier said than done. For every Astros success story you get a Pirates-type situation where you find yourselves never able to get out of rebuild mode. They are also going out of vogue in baseball operations circles. And, perhaps most importantly for Attanasio and ownership, you're basically guaranteeing an empty Am Fam Field for a couple years or so even if everything works out perfectly. The prerequisites for a good team, namely elite pitching, are already there, so why mess with that if you can potentially fix your other holes in the offseason through some shrewd maneuvering?

Plus it's not like the farm needs to be rebuilt. You can never have enough depth down there, but the system is in better shape than it's been in a long time. There will be moves made, but I think those who are hoping for some kind of teardown will be disappointed and fortunately saved from themselves. 

That said, if the haul is big enough you have to listen to offers on one of the aces. Has to be a treasure chest though.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Eh, well, they weren't the worst Brewers team I've ever seen but they were possibly the least entertaining. I possibly had more fun waiting for Kevin Seitzer to bat 25 years ago. 

Hope this gets blown up. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

17 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Attanasio cares about fans in the stands. And there won't be fans in the stands for at least a couple years if that's the route management takes. So, no, not likely at all, regardless of if you think they are ultimately capable of winning a World Series. I will say that having your rotation fronted by Burnes, Woodruff. and Peralta with a closer like Devin is a great start to building a World Series team. Even a slight improvement from the offense and the bullpen and this team is right back to winning 90 games. 

They'll be within shouting distance of that this year, even with all the disappointments.

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Prospects are just that…prospects. There is absolutely no guarantee that these rookies can be depended upon especially in their first year. Sept. And oct. 2021 and the 2022 season has shown EVERYONE that their hitting isn’t playoff level. If you believe that is playoff bound n 2023, I’m afraid you will be greatly disappointment unless there is a major roster change.

A rebuild is literally just taking proven players and trading for more prospects, so that argument kind of falls flat on its face lol. Which, if they don't pan out, makes you the Pittsburgh Pirates. Again, mid 80s in wins this year. Slightly better health on the pitching side of things this year and we likely make the playoffs. They're really not that far from being a World Series-contending ball-club and have the payroll/prospect capital to make another go at things in the offseason. 

[Sixtolezcano]

4 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Even if payroll doesn't go up, we're still set to shed a significant amount from this year's payroll. That will be used to improve the team. Mid 80s in wins this year. Just slightly better offense and bullpen (with better health from the starting pitching) and you're back at 90 wins and right in the thick of things. That will also keep fans in the stands, which is what Attanasio ultimately cares about. IF they are for some reason out of contention by next deadline, then that's when you would potentially see something like a rebuild take place. But not this offseason. 

Which free agents are you going to sign that will improve our hitting significantly. Where are you going to spend all this extra money.? At least I can say you are a major optimist believing that 2023 will be significantly better with 2022 not even completed and before the hot stove.

[bulldogboy0733]

3 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Even if payroll doesn't go up, we're still set to shed a significant amount from this year's payroll. That will be used to improve the team. Mid 80s in wins this year. Just slightly better offense and bullpen (with better health from the starting pitching) and you're back at 90 wins and right in the thick of things. That will also keep fans in the stands, which is what Attanasio ultimately cares about. IF they are for some reason out of contention by next deadline, then that's when you would potentially see something like a rebuild take place. But not this offseason. 

I hear what you are saying but with a few tweaks are they going to be better than the Dodgers Cardinals Mets Braves or Padres?? Maybe Philliles or Giants?? Unless Yelich becomes Yelich 2018 or they find someone like him this is at absolute best a 90 win team that gets shutdown in any playoff series. Now if your take is the owner doesn't care about winning and just wants families around the state to come spend money then I guess that is something to take into consideration. My take is a youndg exciting team people will still show up. I loved the Fielder Weeks Braun teams when they came up. It is a fun time.

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Which free agents are you going to sign that will improve our hitting significantly. Where are you going to spend all this extra money.? At least I can say you are a major optimist believing that 2023 will be significantly better with 2022 not even completed and before the hot stove.

You do realize we will finish just barely out of the playoffs this year? And that's with pretty much everything going wrong....

[Jim French Stepstool]

13 minutes ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

 They have very few players who anyone wants imo. 

I can only hope you're limiting yourself to the 40 man roster when you say that.

[bulldogboy0733]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You do realize we will finish just barely out of the playoffs this year? And that's with pretty much everything going wrong....

A watered down playoffs with an extra spot I guess. Bottom line again is to win a world series. You keep talking about making the playoffs. If they made who were they going to beat?? Honestly. They are not good enough in any aspect of the game except starting pitching. That is a fact and if you want to run it back and hope that guys who can't hit start to cool. I think it is a mistake and I think the Brewers know it too.

[bulldogboy0733]

3 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I can only hope you're limiting yourself to the 40 man roster when you say that.

Yes

[Sixtolezcano]

4 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You do realize we will finish just barely out of the playoffs this year? And that's with pretty much everything going wrong....

You must be ignoring June through October. The last 4 months is a huge trend. In almost all cases rookies aren’t going to significantly going to improve your team in their first year unless they are Fred Lynn and Jim Rice. Lol

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Sixtolezcano said:

You must be ignoring June through October. The last 4 months is a huge trend. In almost all cases rookies aren’t going to significantly going to improve your team in their first year unless they are Fred Lynn and Jim Rice. Lol

Last 4 years is an even bigger trend FWIW....And there are definitely ways to improve the bullpen and the offense. For example, one of the moves I've been advocating for that is well-within the realm of possibility is acquiring one of the Jays three catchers (e.g., Danny Jansen). That's a huge upgrade right there. Regardless, as I've reiterated, a rebuild isn't going to happen this offseason given what Attanasio and Stearns have previously stated and its certain ramifications for attendance. 

[yourout]

3 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Last 4 years is an even bigger trend FWIW....And there are definitely ways to improve the bullpen and the offense. For example, one of the moves I've been advocating for that is well-within the realm of possibility is acquiring one of the Jays three catchers (e.g., Danny Jansen). That's a huge upgrade right there. Regardless, as I've reiterated, a rebuild isn't going to happen this offseason given what Attanasio and Stearns have previously stated and its certain ramifications for attendance. 

Any thoughts to option they could get for third base?

[Sixtolezcano]

9 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Last 4 years is an even bigger trend FWIW....And there are definitely ways to improve the bullpen and the offense. For example, one of the moves I've been advocating for that is well-within the realm of possibility is acquiring one of the Jays three catchers (e.g., Danny Jansen). That's a huge upgrade right there. Regardless, as I've reiterated, a rebuild isn't going to happen this offseason given what Attanasio and Stearns have previously stated and its certain ramifications for attendance. 

Who are you going to give up to acquire Jansen? I’m sure they won’t just give hm up cheap, maybe Frelick?  I also hope his hitting stats with 208 ABs hold up an entire season. I also don’t think that the 2018 and 2019 team performance will come back in 2023.

[bulldogboy0733]

3 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Last 4 years is an even bigger trend FWIW....And there are definitely ways to improve the bullpen and the offense. For example, one of the moves I've been advocating for that is well-within the realm of possibility is acquiring one of the Jays three catchers (e.g., Danny Jansen). That's a huge upgrade right there. Regardless, as I've reiterated, a rebuild isn't going to happen this offseason given what Attanasio and Stearns have previously stated and its certain ramifications for attendance. 

I haven't seen this stated that a rebuild is out of the question after they know they were not good enough to make an expanded playoff field. Let's wait and see. Mark likes money. He has spent precious little of it of late. Trading Hader was about what?? Money correct?? It is a mistake to think Mark is going to reup the payroll or add to it so how do they get better?

[Sixtolezcano]

Just now, bulldogboy0733 said:

I haven't seen this stated that a rebuild is out of the question after they know they were not good enough to make an expanded playoff field. Let's wait and see. Mark likes money. He has spent precious little of it of late. Trading Hader was about what?? Money correct?? It is a mistake to think Mark is going to reup the payroll or add to it so how do they get better?

Maybe Frelick, huh.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Sixtolezcano said:

Who are you going to give up to acquire Jansen? I’m sure they won’t just give hm up cheep. I also hope his hitting stats with 208 ABs hold up an entire season. I also don’t think that the 2018 and 2019 team performance will come back in 2023.

One of our top OF prospects gets you very close. I would definitely consider parting with Wiemer, Ruiz, or Mitchell in such a scenario. 

 

 

[bulldogboy0733]

1 minute ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Maybe Frelick, huh.

Yeah I am all in on rebuild. Any lineup that does not have Mitchell Frelick Turang and Feliciano and Wiemer or Ruiz I have no intrest in. 

[Sixtolezcano]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

One of our top OF prospects gets you very close. I would definitely consider parting with Wiemer, Ruiz, or Mitchell in such a scenario. 

 

 

Maybe Frelick?

[Jim French Stepstool]

Something interesting (to me anyway) tonight. Woodruff went six innings & threw 100 pitches. The leadoff hitter for 'Zona in the 7th was Walker, a RH hitter, followed by lefties. CC starts the inning with Milner. That's when Walker doubled & they went on to score two runs. 

Henry is left in to start the seventh to face Yelich (L vs L), then is pulled for the RH.

Now, there was a difference in pitch count (15 or so) but I'm pretty sure Woodruff had one more hitter in him. And remember, at the time it's a one run game, and you absolutely had to win. I just thought at the time that was an egregious error.

As is the case with all managers, if you follow a team through 162 you'll see things you have reason to disagree with. I saw more than I usually see this year. And no, I don't think Counsell should be fired.

[adambr2]

15 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You do realize we will finish just barely out of the playoffs this year? And that's with pretty much everything going wrong....

What "went wrong?" Woodruff and Burnes still pitched at extremely high levels and Devin was still Devin. Yelich continued to perform at the mediocre level that he has in the last few seasons and every hitter in the lineup performed at almost exactly what could have been reasonably expected. 

Many of us were sounding the alarm back in March that this team as assembled featured an all-around mediocre lineup that would struggle to score runs, a bullpen that was potentially very poor at the last few spots, and that if the starting pitching didn't continue to be otherworldly, we could have problems. Our expected pythagorean record is 83-77, so it's not like we've just been super unlucky. 

Seems to me like they performed at exactly the level of talent that was assembled.

[Brewcrew82]

3 minutes ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

I haven't seen this stated that a rebuild is out of the question after they know they were not good enough to make an expanded playoff field. Let's wait and see. Mark likes money. He has spent precious little of it of late. Trading Hader was about what?? Money correct?? It is a mistake to think Mark is going to reup the payroll or add to it so how do they get better?

Trading Hader wasn't as much about the money as much as it was realizing it wasn't in the best interest of the franchise to attempt to resign him, and that we should attempt to maximize his value while he still has a significant amount left. 

[brooks_quichenick]

If we're dealing any of our top OF prospects for a catcher, I'd love to try to pry Sean Murphy away from the A's.