2024 - 25 Wisconsin Basketball Thread

[RedStickBrew]

Not sure how good this team really can be but Klesmit, Tonje, and Blackwell really put a lot of pressure on opposing teams

[Yaz19]

HOLY ####!!!!!!!!!!  That game was incredible!  Still the Badgers need to work on REBOUNDING.   

[igor67]

Didn't watch, but UW scoring over 100?

[Playing Catch]

1 hour ago, igor67 said:

Didn't watch, but UW scoring over 100?

There were 87 free throw attempts, which really affected the scoreline*. UW with 47 FTA. Only 22 turnovers total, UW with 9.

This will probably be the winning recipe for this team. Shoot/score well enough to make up for the lack of interior defense and rebounding. People will remember Tonje's performance, which was great, but for me, the game was about bench scoring. McGee, Amos, and Janicki went a combined 6-10 from behind the arc. It is really important that Amos and Janicki keep scoring, because I fear they would be liabilities otherwise.

I'm not sure what Winter has shown to earn more minutes. Although, Arizona's bigs are BIG. That's obviously a tough matchup for the Badger's frontcourt.

As for the ongoing question of McGee's coming off the bench, I think the current rotation is correct. I think the starting backcourt will continue to smooth out the offensive flow as the season goes on, and I think the bench NEEDS McGee's quarterbacking to get good shots.
 

*(One can quibble with the refs involvement in the game, but do we, as fans, really want to see two teams getting mauled on their way to the hoop every possession with no calls? That turns a fair, 103-88 game into a 53-51 slog with 40 turnovers. It's a tough game to officiate as both teams want to invite contact, and one team wants a volleyball match underneath the hoop. It's tough because Arizona is active and handsy, looking to create breaks, and UW holds and tugs through screens, and uses hips and knees to knock guys offline, looking for defensive rebounds. Two physical styles, two different styles.

The game can either be physical and fair, or physical and dubious. Speaking for myself, I don't enjoy watching deep, athletic, undisciplined teams slap and slash the ball on an endless, mindless quest for the turnover, and then getting away with it because refs don't want to impact the game.)

[Jim French Stepstool]

What was even more impressive to me than the 1st half UW played, was their response after Zona tied it up in the 2nd. That whole sequence could've easily bred hesitancy but they took the run in stride & just kept playing. And the response came with a post player & four smaller guys on the floor--no "four man". I thought that was really significant. I speculated we might see that at times, but never anticipated seeing it vs a team like Arizona. We'll see it again no doubt.

This game was a lesson in what you can get done if you're smart, position well, anticipate, use your butt, shoulders & legs & get leverage. There was obviously a lot of raw talent out there; you might not think someone like Janicki would be effective. but you can see what Gard & company saw in him. Just an effective piece to the puzzle. And he can shoot a little bit. On the other side, Townsend is a PF, he's about 6'6", and was more effective in the paint than a lot of 7-footers you see. He did the same thing to Kentucky in last seasons' tournament. One of those kids who knows what makes him effective, understands his role & sticks to it.

Tonje was obviously fantastic. When you're so good at drawing contact, getting to the line & making your FTs, then step out & hit a few threes, I don't know what the opposition is supposed to do. Most FTs made in a game in UW history.

I mentioned Janicki, but Amos has stacked back-to-back nice games off the bench too. Still wonder about his strength & hands but he's certainly a weapon. And some of the stuff he isn't great at right now, Gilmore is (despite having a subpar game). Nice little competition going on there for minutes.

I'd like to say the ridiculous amount of whistles was due to over-reacting to the shove by Love, but they were calling everything even before that. After awhile I felt like I was sitting at a late-80s NBA game & everyone with the ball in their hands was Michael Jordan. I can just see NCAA rules committee guys looking at the score and going "Ooooh!! 103-88!! Lots of points!!! Great game!!!!"  Uhh, no. I mean it WAS a great game, but could've been much better. I've seen people in 2020 wearing masks making more contact than some of these fouls that were called.

Oh, and great job by Blackwell & Klesmit of getting in Loves' head & helping to mitigate him.

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

There were 87 free throw attempts, which really affected the scoreline*. UW with 47 FTA. Only 22 turnovers total, UW with 9.

This will probably be the winning recipe for this team. Shoot/score well enough to make up for the lack of interior defense and rebounding. People will remember Tonje's performance, which was great, but for me, the game was about bench scoring. McGee, Amos, and Janicki went a combined 6-10 from behind the arc. It is really important that Amos and Janicki keep scoring, because I fear they would be liabilities otherwise.

I'm not sure what Winter has shown to earn more minutes. Although, Arizona's bigs are BIG. That's obviously a tough matchup for the Badger's frontcourt.

As for the ongoing question of McGee's coming off the bench, I think the current rotation is correct. I think the starting backcourt will continue to smooth out the offensive flow as the season goes on, and I think the bench NEEDS McGee's quarterbacking to get good shots.
 

*(One can quibble with the refs involvement in the game, but do we, as fans, really want to see two teams getting mauled on their way to the hoop every possession with no calls? That turns a fair, 103-88 game into a 53-51 slog with 40 turnovers. It's a tough game to officiate as both teams want to invite contact, and one team wants a volleyball match underneath the hoop. It's tough because Arizona is active and handsy, looking to create breaks, and UW holds and tugs through screens, and uses hips and knees to knock guys offline, looking for defensive rebounds. Two physical styles, two different styles.

The game can either be physical and fair, or physical and dubious. Speaking for myself, I don't enjoy watching deep, athletic, undisciplined teams slap and slash the ball on an endless, mindless quest for the turnover, and then getting away with it because refs don't want to impact the game.)

Agree re the bench last night. And I'm convinced about McGees' role, too. He's embracing it, which is what you want. And when Zona put on backcourt pressure when he was on the bench they mostly handled it fine.

I still like Winter. Like you said, a tough matchup for him (Townsend can do that to anybody). I'd contiune to start him; there certainly are options to go to if things don't work early. Alternating him w/Crowl & going w/o a "four" in the 2nd half was surprisingly effective.

AFA the refs, I think there's a happy medium between last night & swallowing your whistles like it's the 1980s. Most of the calls were on dribble drives & putbacks so I'll give them that. But to me it was becoming a game where often there was nothing a defender could do other than put your hands straight up & hope the shot misses. I just don't want the game devolving into 'defense' being nothing more than blocking shots & getting steals.

OTOH, it benefitted us more than them last night.😁

[Jim French Stepstool]

12 hours ago, Yaz19 said:

HOLY ####!!!!!!!!!!  That game was incredible!  Still the Badgers need to work on REBOUNDING.   

Arizona really attacks the boards; they might be as good at it as anyone they'll see. But yeah, it was almost a 2-1 edge for them & it's definitely something to point to.

[Jim French Stepstool]

17 hours ago, yourout said:

So far they don't appear to miss Chucky or Storr very much.

Storr & Tonje are both high-volume scorers. But SO different. AFA playing & getting your opportunities within the team concept.............Tonje scored forty-one points on, I believe, fourteen shots from the floor. I shudder to think how many shots it would take Storr to score close to that many. Being a terrific FT shooter while, at the same time, KNOWING how to get to the line is a lethal combination.

[Joseph Zarr]

I saw Bucky won. I saw they scored over 100 points. All incredible.

Then I saw: 87 combined FT's ?!? 😳 87 COMBINED FT'S?!?

I can't imagine there was a lot of flow to this One. Glad the Badgers came out on top but, sheesh, from afar I would have guessed they had MAAC refs calling this one.

[Jim French Stepstool]

32 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I saw Bucky won. I saw they scored over 100 points. All incredible.

Then I saw: 87 combined FT's ?!? 😳 87 COMBINED FT'S?!?

I can't imagine there was a lot of flow to this One. Glad the Badgers came out on top but, sheesh, from afar I would have guessed they had MAAC refs calling this one.

.......or CDC officials.😛

From where I sat it was at least called evenly with the possible exception of the 1st 5 minutes of the 2nd half when Arizona made their run. But no, not much flow.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I think the Badgers shooting 44% from 3 to Arizona's 17% is the story of this one, even beyond the fouls and FTs.

I'm not going to get TOO excited about this one just based on it being at home and in some weird/fluky circumstances. That said, it's going to count as a high-quality Q1 win, and, as others mentioned, the ability of the team to respond after 65-65 was incredible. If these guys can have that kind of identity all year, we're going to be better than people think.

I LOVE John Blackwell. I think he's going to really shine this year, and one thing I really like is that this year's team is probably going to more athletic than last year's. I know Storr was a serious athlete, but Blackwell, Tonje, and Amos bring a lot to the table on that front too. Honestly, it's harder to defend that backcourt than one that involves Chuckie, as much as I liked Chuckie. His strength was on the defensive end of the floor. Klesmit should get a lot of open looks, and if he shoots it, look out.

It's really hard to win in this version of NCAA basketball without a lot of very good, very athletic guards. The Badgers being better and deeper on that front is going to help. Who knows how they do in the Big Ten (which is going to be good), but this is a great win to bank and build on.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

 Honestly, it's harder to defend that backcourt than one that involves Chuckie, as much as I liked Chuckie. 

Agree. All three can shoot it, and they're all willing to put it on the deck & drive (and have the size to cause problems when they do it).

I've never been a big fan of a PG-by-committee look. but it's sure working so far. It gets three scorers on the floor, and McGee seems perfectly fine coming off the bench. Great attitude from one of your vets.

[Jim French Stepstool]

So far tonite vs UTRGV, it looks like you'd fear it might look coming off a big win. These guys look to be just good enough to give you problems if the extra effort in the half-court defense isn't there. And it certainly isn't. UW is guarding for about 10-12 seconds, and some good ball movement & dribble drives at just the right time is causing issues. Of course, you can suck defensively & still not see an opponent shoot 17 for their first 26 from the floor. Then, a couple non-hustle plays late in the half. Paint should be peeling off the walls in the locker room.

Amos kind of looked like a Storr facsimile in the 1st half, meaning he can be instant offense but you just hope it isn't given up on the other end. If the team defense doesn't shore up after the break they may need to keep Janicki on the floor----a lot.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

First half tonight against Rio Grande Valley is a big part of why I am still unsure about this team. Can they defend? That's going to be a big question. They don't really make it difficult on teams on that end of the floor, which is an adjustment as a fan.

Fully expect they'll come back and win, maybe by a wide margin. But they do need to find a way to create turnovers. That's long been a struggle under Gard.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Avoided the let down. Lots to work on before a tough one on Friday.

[Oxy]

I'm still adjusting to be being an offensive oriented wing dominant team.  For 27 years or so UW has been successful as a PG and big man dominant and defensive oriented team(s).  Tonje/Blackwell/Klesmit are easily the best/most versatile triumvirate of wings that I can remember (since '89 or so...). Tucker was better than any one of them, but he didn't have two other guys to help him out (no matter how much I like Clayton Hansen)

[Jim French Stepstool]

One of the things I love about college sports is the stuff you see that you never thought you would, and how it  sticks with you. I saw Brew Brees throw 83 passes in a game. Friday night, I witnessed a player drain 20 FTs in forty minutes of basketball. And tonight, something I never thought I'd hear myself say: a basketball team was forced to sit its starting post men & go small because of the 3PT shooting of a guy from Mongolia.

Seriously, you'd like to not have to go small at all five spots. But there just wasn't enough advantage taken by Crowl or Winter on the offensive end to offset a group hitting 40% from out there, and everyone being a threat. You're almost tempted to think it's not your night when the last one goes in to make it a 1-PT game--from a kid who was scoreless up to that point. But, survival. A game like this illustrates the value of having someone like Gilmore around. Far from his best game, but you needed at least SOME size & Amos was not going to be the answer chasing shooters & fighting through screens.

It may sound like sour grapes because the guy transferred, but in a late-game situation I'd take Tonje, Blackwell, or Klesmit over Hepburn.

If there's an unsung hero award for the season, Janicki is the clubhouse leader right now.

Mulligan for McGee. he just looked off tonight, on both ends. He'll bounce back I'm sure.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

First half tonight against Rio Grande Valley is a big part of why I am still unsure about this team. Can they defend? That's going to be a big question. They don't really make it difficult on teams on that end of the floor, which is an adjustment as a fan.

Fully expect they'll come back and win, maybe by a wide margin. But they do need to find a way to create turnovers. That's long been a struggle under Gard.

That's a legit concern. I felt like the defense was gradually getting better, then some struggles vs Arizona which I wasn't jumping off a bridge about because, well, Arizona. There was at least energy & effort there. Tonight it got better when they were forced to go small but I agree the 1st half needed to be lots better. They've had years where it took awhile to hit whatever defensive stride they're capable of, and looking at the personnel I think it can happen. But there's so much emphasis on help, positioning & trying to minimize the dribble drives that I don't know if they'll force many TOs. Especially tonight, where you had to go small. You can't exactly take chances and, if you don't recover, funnel everything into Carter Gilmore for a blocked shot.

looking at the big picture I'm a little more concerned about the rebounding.

[Jim French Stepstool]

51 minutes ago, Oxy said:

 Tonje/Blackwell/Klesmit are easily the best/most versatile triumvirate of wings that I can remember (since '89 or so...). Tucker was better than any one of them, but he didn't have two other guys to help him out (no matter how much I like Clayton Hansen)

I'd have to agree. Not to disparage the guy, but if you had someone other than Andy Kilbride to pair with Finley & Webster, that might eclipse the current group.

[Oxy]

6 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I'd have to agree. Not to disparage the guy, but if you had someone other than Andy Kilbride to pair with Finley & Webster, that might eclipse the current group.

Webster was a pure PG...UW has had lots of studs there.  Tucker played his Frosh year with a Sr Kirk Penney, but Alando actually played power forward that year.  '14 had Dekker, Brust and Gasser--who are probably better but not nearly as individually versatile as the current 3.

 

[Playing Catch]

My random thoughts on last night...

The Vaqueros shot great last night. The kind of performance that wipes out a 3-seed in the tournament. But the Badgers won. I'm not going to think too hard about it.

Janicki took 2 steps forward last night. NOT a liability defensively, as I thought a couple of games ago. He also handles and passes so confidently, to go along with his shooting. He's gunna have a very nice four years. The other bench guys are also plus. McGee and Gilmore do what they do, of course. And while Amos still needs to work on defense and general positioning, his ball-handling and shooting are good for a guy his size. It seems like the last couple of seasons, we've thought they'd have "depth," simply due to numbers, but the quality of the depth was, IMHO, lacking. Not the case with this group!

Blackwell. He very well could end up my all-time favorite Badger. That's a crazy thing for me to ponder. I just love his background as a recruit, his humility. He just seems like a really, really good kid. And then when you watch him, he simply rises to the moment, time and time again. It doesn't matter if it's one of his first college games in Arizona last season, or versus UTRGV last night. He senses the moment and responds in all facets to try and lead his team to victory.

Someone on the other board made mention that Crowl and Winter are neither big enough, or quick enough to take advantage of a mismatch. I think that is spot on. They are fine versus players that are similar to themselves.

I think the rebounding and rim-protection will continue to be THE achilles heel of what could end up being a pretty good team. Particularly if they aren't getting the calls.

Speaking of calls, any time I see a group of officials that includes D.J. Carstenen, I know it will be a frustrating, unpredictable, inconsistent performance from the zebras. Last night was no exception. The Badgers probably benefitted last night, but you just never know.

[Playing Catch]

I realize it's still very early, but is it possible that this version of the Badgers is better than the hypothetical 2024-25 team that includes Hepburn, Storr, and Essegian?

[Oxy]

10 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

I realize it's still very early, but is it possible that this version of the Badgers is better than the hypothetical 2024-25 team that includes Hepburn, Storr, and Essegian?

It's most definitely possible.  Although I think the ceiling would have been higher for that group.  And as those types of things go, the floor would be a lot lower.  Storr and Hepburn were clearly distracted in the middle of the B1G season last year--likely due to NIL/negotiations/tampering/whatever.  That wouldn't have been different this year at least for guys like CE and Storr (if they were having a lot of success).

This team just seems super steady and heady, obviously beginning with the 3 wings-- but also Crowl and McGee and Gilmore.  It just seems like an extremely mature, cohesive unit.  Who knows though.

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, Oxy said:

Webster was a pure PG...UW has had lots of studs there.  Tucker played his Frosh year with a Sr Kirk Penney, but Alando actually played power forward that year.  '14 had Dekker, Brust and Gasser--who are probably better but not nearly as individually versatile as the current 3.

 

Yes Webster was a PG. I thought you were simply referring to a 3-man perimeter grouping.

[Playing Catch]

3 wings, or positions 2, 3, 4... either way, I agree that typical Badger teams on the last 20 years featured more defenders at the 2 and 3 spot, and that the offenses often hummed with 1, 4, and/or 5.