After Missing Out on Tarik Skubal, Brewers Still Got What They Needed Most at Trade Deadline

[cragi]

29 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I feel like the “Sproat has TOR stuff, we gotta stick with him and unlock it” crowd switched to the “Thank God we got May, Sproat was butt, what an upgrade” crowd quickly in the last 24 hours. 

I’m an ardent Sproat fan but also was quick to say we need to go after Skubal hard:. They aren’t mutually exclusive and Speoat has time to develop. I argued from the start that adding a Proven TOR guy helps the entire rotation and Sproat can head to the pen this year. 
 

im hoping he figures something out at AAA and regroups to help as a long relief option yet this year. But he’s not ready and he’s out of time as a starter on a playoff roster

[tmwiese55]

30 minutes ago, owbc said:

The pivot may have had something to do with Sproat's pitching performance last night. 

Of course he didn't do well last night. But he also was a bit unlucky.  2 outs nobody on, a mediocre grounder up the middle that Turang makes but can't get throw quite in time. Followed up by another mediocre grounder through the infield. I never checked the hit speed but they didn't seem anything special.  The walk sucks. Then a hard hit down the line that if it was one foot to the left is an out and he's out of there with no runs, that was hit hard though.  Any one of those grounders goes just a bit different he's out of that inning and very possibly goes 5ish shutout. 

But, that's how its been most of the year for him. Things seem to spiral quickly on him.  Young guy, we all see the stuff, take a break in AAA or in AZ. Be ready if needed late in the year to start or out of the pen.  Still seems a very good chance of becoming a big contributor in future years.  

[BCF]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I don't think anyone is worried about our rotation or staff, with or without Skubal. It's the confidence that the offense can score more than one run a game, something they didn't do the last time they met the Dodgers. 

Talk of anything else is just nonsense. 

What power bat that was available would have been an upgrade over the current roster? 

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

Our rotation isn't competing against their rotation. Our rotation is competing against their hitters. The hitting is the much bigger issue than the pitching. Our pitching is in a way better spot this year than it was a year ago. 

I think it's ridiculous for everyone to be dismissing the fact that their starting rotation is better than ours, but let's play this game.  

Which team has the advantage?

Our offense beating their pitching, or their offense beating our pitching.

Listen, I want to believe that we have a shot at the World Series, but I'm afraid that the only way that happens is if someone else knocks LA out of the playoffs before we have to play them...

[Matt]

14 minutes ago, BCF said:

What power bat that was available would have been an upgrade over the current roster? 

The only trade that raised my eyebrows was the Yankees getting Garcia Jr. Thought the final price was light for a guy who mashes RHP and has another year of control. He could have slid into Vaughn's spot.

[wiguy94]

13 minutes ago, TURBO said:

I think it's ridiculous for everyone to be dismissing the fact that their starting rotation is better than ours, but let's play this game.  

Which team has the advantage?

Our offense beating their pitching, or their offense beating our pitching.

Listen, I want to believe that we have a shot at the World Series, but I'm afraid that the only way that happens is if someone else knocks LA out of the playoffs before we have to play them...

Regardless of us or them having Skubal the answer would be their offense has a bigger advantage over our pitching than vice versa. Nothing the Brewers could have done at the deadline would have changed that answer. The Dodgers have a much better and more dangerous lineup than the Brewers.

[wiguy94]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

The only trade that raised my eyebrows was the Yankees getting Garcia Jr. Thought the final price was light for a guy who mashes RHP and has another year of control. He could have slid into Vaughn's spot.

Garcia is a LHH who can't hit LHP. That is not someone who could slide into Vaughn's role. Not to mention I don't see how the Brewers could have beat the Yankees offer. Nationals wanted quantity of upper minors pitching with the two main pieces being flamethrowing RHP that profile as high leverage pitchers. Upper level minor league pitching is the farm system's biggest weakness.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Garcia is a LHH who can't hit LHP. That is not someone who could slide into Vaughn's role. Not to mention I don't see how the Brewers could have beat the Yankees offer. Nationals wanted quantity of upper minors pitching with the two main pieces being flamethrowing RHP that profile as high leverage pitchers. Upper level minor league pitching is the farm system's biggest weakness.

Most of Vaughn's ABs, by a 2 to 1 margin, are against RHP. I would have wanted to see Garcia get all those ABs. Vaughn could stick around for LHP. 

As for the package, yea, if that's all they wanted then the Brewers weren't going to be able to get in the game. I doubt that would have been the case if the Brewers wanted him bad enough, but whatever. Over and done with. 

[TURBO]

Just now, Matt said:

Most of Vaughn's ABs, by a 2 to 1 margin, are against RHP. 

 

If this is true, make it make sense...

Murphy, are you reading this?  Make it make sense.

[Matt]

Just now, TURBO said:

If this is true, make it make sense...

Murphy, are you reading this?  Make it make sense.

To be fair, it's 135 vs 66 AB, and 135 to 80 PA. 

Still a significant amount.

[wiguy94]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Most of Vaughn's ABs, by a 2 to 1 margin, are against RHP. I would have wanted to see Garcia get all those ABs. Vaughn could stick around for LHP. 

As for the package, yea, if that's all they wanted then the Brewers weren't going to be able to get in the game. I doubt that would have been the case if the Brewers wanted him bad enough, but whatever. Over and done with. 

So you would have carried 4 1B/DH on the roster at one time in Yelich, Bauers, Vaughn, Garcia?

[Matt]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

So you would have carried 4 1B/DH on the roster at one time in Yelich, Bauers, Vaughn, Garcia?

Sure would. 

[BCF]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

So you would have carried 4 1B/DH on the roster at one time in Yelich, Bauers, Vaughn, Garcia?

Yeah and the Brewers wouldn’t bench Yelich especially at his salary 

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Sure would. 

So you'd basically want Bauers to play as a full time OF with Vaughn and Garcia platooning at 1B? Lara back to AAA or on the bench?

[Matt]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

So you'd basically want Bauers to play as a full time OF with Vaughn and Garcia platooning at 1B? Lara back to AAA or on the bench?

In an ideal world Yelich would just retire or come down with a "back injury". And I want to see Lara out there as much as possible. But I want to see dudes who rake more. 

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

In an ideal world Yelich would just retire or come down with a "back injury". And I want to see Lara out there as much as possible. But I want to see dudes who rake more. 

So Yelich not playing which is obviously something everyone would like but that's not going to happen and is exactly why they basically had no avenues to upgraded the lineup at the deadline outside of 3B.

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

So Yelich not playing which is obviously something everyone would like but that's not going to happen and is exactly why they basically had no avenues to upgraded the lineup at the deadline outside of 3B.

You just said it. Make Bauers the RF and send Lara down. What's more important right now? Defense in right field or someone who has a wRC+ of 150 against RHP?

[wiguy94]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

You just said it. Make Bauers the RF and send Lara down. What's more important right now? Defense in right field or someone who has a wRC+ of 150 against RHP?

Then we are going in circles because we go right back to the Brewers didn't have the upper level pitching required to trade for Garcia.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

Then we are going in circles because we go right back to the Brewers didn't have the upper level pitching required to trade for Garcia.

I don't think it would have taken much effort to trade for a couple minor league relievers from another system. 

[BrewerFan]

9 hours ago, SeaBass said:

They traded for Favre in 1992 he wasn't a free agent.

They signed White in a non-capped year. Was money a problem for Green Bay when they signed him? The cap didn't prevent them from signing even more key free agents as you pointed out.

I'm not sure this is an argument that supports a salary cap being the key reason the Packers got to a Super Bowl.

Seems like revenue sharing is a major factor though.

There isn't one. Dallas and teams like the Giants, 49ers... I mean, we all know which cities, but they'd dominate the game and the NFL would probably be worse.

Just think if a team could sign every player they wanted. The Rams... who certainly look scary enough, they'd probably be spending 300-400M more than the Brewers(if not more) and guys like Myles Garrett, they wouldn't sign extensions or restructure so often because if they hit FA without the danger of the franchise tag. 

I'm just thinking, but a OL with Tristan Wirfs and then Trent Williams, Creed Humphrey and I don't care enough to keep going and listing two OGs, but basically the 90s Cowboys. 

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, cragi said:

I’m an ardent Sproat fan but also was quick to say we need to go after Skubal hard:. They aren’t mutually exclusive and Speoat has time to develop. I argued from the start that adding a Proven TOR guy helps the entire rotation and Sproat can head to the pen this year. 
 

im hoping he figures something out at AAA and regroups to help as a long relief option yet this year. But he’s not ready and he’s out of time as a starter on a playoff roster

I've said most of this year it looks like Burnes in 2019.

Everything is there, he's got all the stuff, he's just not attacking and then gets behind, has to throw a strike and throws is right over the middle. 

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Then we are going in circles because we go right back to the Brewers didn't have the upper level pitching required to trade for Garcia.

They sent out volume over quality. Wagoner, Yoho and Hardin would have blown away the Yankees offer. 

Wichrowski, Kuehner... I mean, if they really wanted him, Letson or Knoth(wouldn't have been nearly as ridiculous as Frias). 

 

 

[wiguy94]

15 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

They sent out volume over quality. Wagoner, Yoho and Hardin would have blown away the Yankees offer. 

Wichrowski, Kuehner... I mean, if they really wanted him, Letson or Knoth(wouldn't have been nearly as ridiculous as Frias). 

Yoho was no longer a Brewer. I do not think Wagoner is anywhere near the reliever prospect as guys like Cruz and Grable are. Hardin is better than any of the prospects they got but guys like Wichrowski and Kuehner (who is on the AAA 60 Day IL) are going to move the needle. Letson and Knoth are further away from being MLB ready than any of the guys Washington got and they wanted guys closer to MLB. They want to win next year and think the three prospects they got can help them within the next year.

[BrewerFan]

16 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Yoho was no longer a Brewer. I do not think Wagoner is anywhere near the reliever prospect as guys like Cruz and Grable are. Hardin is better than any of the prospects they got but guys like Wichrowski and Kuehner (who is on the AAA 60 Day IL) are going to move the needle.

Yoho was traded like 2 days earlier. There's zero chance if they were interested, they hadn't checked in on what the Nats wanted for him. But fine, make it Heuer. He belongs in this group of arms anyway.

But so... Wagoner is not good enough and Hardin is too good...

Whatever, the point is, the Brewers had the arms, the Yankees traded volume, not quality. 

If the Brewers wanted him, they could have got him for a comparable package.

Though he would mostly be stepping into Bauers role, so I don't think it makes much sense... but they certainly had the pieces to do it.

 

And are you saying Wichrowski and Kuehner moved the needle or don't? I'm guessing you're saying they don't move the needle, but you said they wanted upper level guys who were close to MLB who were flamethrowers. That's both of them, Wagoner. 
Because... it wasn't that big of a needle. One of the pitchers was a 30-year-old with a 6 ERA and mediocre stuff. The best guy they got back is the Nats 25th ranked prospect.

Saying one guy is better and one is worse(and I completely disagree, Wagoner was exactly the type of BP arm they were looking for)... is really just saying the package would have been... different which is a given. 

[wiguy94]

21 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Yoho was traded like 2 days earlier. There's zero chance if they were interested, they hadn't checked in on what the Nats wanted for him. But fine, make it Heuer. He belongs in this group of arms anyway.

But so... Wagoner is not good enough and Hardin is too good...

Whatever, the point is, the Brewers had the arms, the Yankees traded volume, not quality. 

If the Brewers wanted him, they could have got him for a comparable package.

Though he would mostly be stepping into Bauers role, so I don't think it makes much sense... but they certainly had the pieces to do it.

 

And are you saying Wichrowski and Kuehner moved the needle or don't? I'm guessing you're saying they don't move the needle, but you said they wanted upper level guys who were close to MLB who were flamethrowers. That's both of them, Wagoner. 
Because... it wasn't that big of a needle. One of the pitchers was a 30-year-old with a 6 ERA and mediocre stuff. The best guy they got back is the Nats 25th ranked prospect.

Saying one guy is better and one is worse(and I completely disagree, Wagoner was exactly the type of BP arm they were looking for)... is really just saying the package would have been... different which is a given. 

None of Wagoner, Wichrowski, or Kuehner are flamethrowers. Wagoner is closest but even he in AAA is averaging more like 96-97 with his FB with average shape. Cruz and Grable both have 70 grade fastballs according to Fangraphs and both profile as high leverage relievers.