TooLiveBrew

Shouse and Riske should have the 8th inning IMO with Villy and Stetter as the primary 7th inning guys That's a great alignment imo. The flexibility alone of having Shouse + Riske (since Ned apparently thinks "Thou shalt pitch no other pitcher than one designated guy in the 8th inning" was the lost 11th Commandment) for that inning is great. Mota for long-ish relief & low-leverage innings, and the mix of Shouse/Riske/Villy/Stetter/Gagne/(DiFelice if he's with the club) to get to Torres is a solid, solid 'pen.

If you're going to claim one has been a better MLB pitcher so far then it makes sense to use the stats available. Since the samples are tiny, I'm using what has been visible & trying to see if it 'matches up' with the stats at all. It's a dicey proposition, and clearly it's pretty tough to agree on anything based on such limited data. I still believe that DiFelice has been a better MLB-er, because I don't think the stats match up much with performance/command for either Mark or Mitch. I know that sounds waffle-y, but I'm doing my best to clarify. The fact is Stetter has been better so far. Come on now, you just wanted to rhyme that. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif I was glad to see Mitch had a good inning of work last night. Either he's really that good or he doesn't know how to effectively use his control to avoid extra base hits. I'm just not sure which category he falls under yet. This is what I mean about using the small sample to 'know' or 'say' something. I don't agree with the notion that we can take anything about talent levels (as in, 'DiFelice gives up a lot of extra-base hits'... just an example, not putting words in your mouth) from such a small sample. Looking at the available stats (minor-leagues) leads me to believe that Mark is exceptionally skilled at limiting BBs. Funny because you thought Shouse was a loogy and he has better numbers vs RH than DiFleice has vs LH. I do think Shouse is best used as a LOOGY, and his success v. RHP relative to DiFelice's success v. LHP (or vice versa) doesn't influence me much for either guy. Shouse has been pretty bad against RH batters in his career, and DiFelice has a miniscule amount of PA v. LH batters -- I don't think it offers anything in terms of 'who's more talented?' The only real difference I see is Shouse keeps them from slugging at an unGodly high rate. This season, this has been true. Over his career, it is not. (I emphasized there bc I cringe when I hear baseball announcers say, "He's a .293 hitter", or "He's hitting .293 this year" -- it's something that happened in the past, not an indicator of what a guy 'is' or 'isn't' as a hitter) If the time comes and Stetter does start to grove a few 3-0 fastballs and they get hit hard but his walk rate goes down does that really help make him better. Which to me is the problem with only looking at walk rates. They don't tell you much in a vacuum. That's very true. I'm definitely not *just* looking at BB rate, but I personally weigh it heavier than the other stuff with such limited stats. It's a good point about Stetter, too, to note that if he keeps his BBs down, he is every bit as dangerous v. LH as DeFelice is v. RH, if not moreso. I'm not sure two lefties is too many but I see the point about extra long men. It should be pointed out though the only time we need two long men are if two starters get eaten alive in a row. Right -- my point on the long man is that right now (meaning, relative to the roster move where the choice was DeFelice or Stetter), the need for a long-RP > the need for a 2nd LHRP -- 17 games in 17 days stretch. In general, I think the second lefty is more valuable, since as you point out, our bullpen has a better overall ability to work more this season.

"We're sorry, you are not allowed to make another post so soon after your last one." http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif Oh how I loathe you, error message... 60 seconds be damned!

Meh, all beer tastes the saem anyway, like swamp pee. I just feel sorry for you. Oh well, more for the rest of us! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

make-a-sandwich-before-Vargas-throws-the-next-pitch slow?

Lou Palsmo - a great all around catcher with speed this guy is a gonna be the future hopefullly. A+... The fact that it took MSC & 25 posts to get this is embarassing! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

at St. Louis (0-4) Houston (1-2) This is not baiting or 'flaming' you... I'd just really love to hear the thinking behind this part.

Oh boy... glad I get to leave work in < 10 min.! Long day! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif I. Am. Dumb. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/embarassed.gif

Didn't Coors merge with Miller? I thought they did, and iirc Coors has the controlling big-shots when it comes to executives. That would explain it.

at Arizona (1-2) Pittsburgh (2-1) Colorado (2-2) Cincinnati (2-1) at San Francisco (2-1) at St. Louis (2-2) Houston (2-1) Chi Cubs (2-2) I get 15-12, but stealing an extra game or two would obviously be stellar. Sweeping Pittsburgh &/or SF would be where I'd guess those 'extra' games would be best nabbed... but a boy can dream about 3 (or even 4) from the Cubs!

I found that sheets can be really appreciative towards fans. Benny has an incredible personality. He's every bit as talented there as he is on the hill. If he leaves via FA, I'll miss his goofiness & down-to-earth persona as much as I will his pitching talent.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif Now that's advance scouting!

How does he handle himself blocking the pitches if they fall off the tee? That's a huge indicator of future talent.

I would agree that Yost is about average when compared around the league, yes. Watching other teams, it just makes me feel lucky when I see so many hit-&-runs & too much small-ball. I actually like that part about Yost. Fwiw, the first place I look when a team outperforms its expected W-L is the players. They have a much larger effect on the outcomes.

But remember, I'm in the "Trading Sheets doesn't mean we should punt" crowd. I assume you meant Sheets. And in that case, 'Ahhh... yes.' http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Clearly the lone answer is Rluz's new daughter.... duh

That said and ERA a full run better is something. But you're saying, "Small samples aside" when that's my point. ERA over such few IP is completely misleading. I don't think of DiFelice as a ROOGY since he's very capable of throwing more innings than just one. Where we're diverging here is the way the numbers are being interpreted. I don't think Stetter's or DiFelice's opposing lines (BA/OB/SL/OPS) tell you, "This is what to expect, & is the player's talent level." I think they say, "Here's what this pitcher has done over an extraordinarily small amount of work", and have glaring problems in terms of what can be gleaned from them. I hope Brawndo can weigh in here, since he knows DiFelice much better than I do. The fact that he does indeed get them out at a very decent clip as well as hold his own against RH better than Difelice does against LH it shouldn't be considered a slam dunk DiFelice is better. Quite frankly I think just the opposite. Neither pitcher has thrown enough yet to start saying things like this. DiFelice added a cut-fastball to his arsenal (which actually tends to help a RH pitcher v. lefties), and has been a different pitcher... he's not some washed-up guy that is just fodder (not that you're saying that). The fact that he's 32 & Stetter is 27 means nothing to me. Both are beyond the age range where we should expect much change due to getting older, except that DiFelice is a bit tricky due to making himself more dangerous with the cutter. If Stetter were to add a cutter, he'd probably be tougher on RHers, but he seems to have enough trouble commanding his two primary pitches. What we do 'know' about the two guys imo is that Mark's command has been fantastic in both the minors & in the bigs, while Mitch's command has been fine to good in the minors & poor (imho) in MLB (7.2 BB/9). Stetter has just not been hit very hard yet, but I don't think that will last with more IP, unless he's able to command his pitches better. I understand your perspective. I just don't agree it's obvious one is better than the other. I didn't say that it is -- I did mention I think the difference is probably not worth getting too upset about. I just have seen a lot of command problems for Stetter (not meaning just control, but how well he's working his pitches, too), whereas DiFelice's command has been relatively impressive. Highly subjective goings-on here, and really really hard to see if the numbers support anything when you've got such a small amount of data. With this stretch of 17 games in 17 days, I'd prefer the guy that offers more in terms of his role. The LOOGY or one-inning lefty just doesn't help as much as a guy that can come in & do what Villy did last night. Now what if Soup can't get through 6 tonight? Villy is burned, and you have to resort to your better RP to burn up garbage innings, since DiFelice is gone & Stetter was used in a higher-leverage game. Beyond that, for this 17-game stretch, the 'long RP to save the bullpen' role will probably be important, and moreso than your #2 lefty RP. What's troubling to me is that Yost/whoever feels the #2 lefty is more important than a pitcher that can handle the vast majority of opponent bats (righties) & help keep the rest of the 'pen fresh.

Not much to learn from a combined 35 IP, imho Buc. What I'd point to in there is the BB rate for Stetter -- alarmingly high, but a small sample to be sure. Throw out ERA, BAA, and probably both of their lines v. LH/RH in terms of 'telling us' anything. I think DiFelice has been better because his command has been much better, and the numbers back that up thus far.

And Sutton & Grace were talking about how Braun rarely, if ever, chases. They sounded completely clueless last night... not surprising. To paraphrase: 'Branyan either strikes out or homers'... no mention of how he BBs a buttload, too.

Soup could easily be dealt, as long as the Brewers are willing to eat a chunk of the contract. With Torres, the rationale would be 'sell high', I think.

It's becoming pretty obvious that Corey doesn't want to be here Only to you, apparently. Hart turned down an offer -- the Brewers probably tried to get him to sign cheap, and Corey isn't dumb (or at least has a good agent/advisor)

But that's asking for too much from a channel that can't even get the actual count right a lot of the time. This happens on most baseball broadcasts, and, yes, to the same extent if not worse. Not saying I don't think FSN-WI could/should be improved, just want to be fair.

Well I was referring to Hall - Fielder. The idea that Prince is hurting the team is just beyond me. His defense at first isn't in the stratosphere of how bad Braun was at 3B, and Prince has 'struggled' his way to a very good line for anyone other than the player that hit 50 bombs last season, which convinced some fans that he'd do that (or roughly that) every single campaign. Especially when the guy whined about his paycheck then went out and put up very average numbers for his position. This is a sore subject for me. Let's get this straight, since the misinformation train has a full head of steam. Prince responded to a direct question about his contract... ONCE. He did not pull a Bill Hall and cry through his agent. Also, you need to check into the full-time 1B this season if you want to start stating where Prince stands relative to his peers. "Average numbers" is not accurate. He's been top-10 to this point... but since that's < 50 HR, fans are all over him & looking for reasons to be upset. Well, that & turning down a contract offer. We saw the same with El Caballo, and clearly he made the right move in turning down the Brewers' offer (as I think Prince did). I don't like it either, but I don't feel the need to badmouth him & just make up stuff to be angry about. THT stats page, sorted for MLB 1B in terms of highest GPA

Yeah, I agree Stevo. Clearly the concern for Ned was whether or not he had another RP that can get lefties out. Watching Stetter pitch last night really made me wonder why he was chosen over DiFelice. I don't disagree with having more than one lefty, but if the other lefty is Stetter, I think DiFelice is overall more valuable. This is a vintage Yostian decision, imo. You take one one element of the game (facing LH batters) & over-value it, because it's a bit of an extreme. Like I said, I agree with the philosophy "It's nice to have more than one lefty RP"... however, where I disagree in Stetter over DiFelice is that Mark provides more overall value, and has been a better MLB pitcher so far. It's strange to me that the logic used on sending DiFelice down was, 'He needs to work on getting lefties out', when righties are far & away the most common type of batter (& I think therefore less extreme/dangerous than lefties, to Ned), and Stetter doesn't help you there. DiFelice would have more potential matchups to face, not to mention that he can handle more than an inning or two at a time. The reason I say 'vintage Yostian' is that he's playing, once again, against the most likely scenario & for one that he personally finds 'spookier' -- you wouldn't want to only have one lefty! What if a lefty came up? I hope it's clear that I'm not 'blaming' Yost for anything here (the difference btw. Stetter or DiFelice probably isn't worth sweating), just trying to point out another poor use of "logic" by Ned. There is good in having another LHRP, but it's less useful imo than having DiFelice. Taking Stetter over DiFelice really appears to match up with Ned's overall strategy: play for something aside from the most likely outcome/scenario, because a less likely one appears more dangerous. Beyond that, I'm just going to let sleeping dogs lie here. You can have the last say. I'm done, and I hope never to have to talk about what is and isn't a straw-man argument on this board again. You're certainly not in the minority on this one.

people are still focusing on Hall? Funny how sucking for an entire season takes precedent over sucking for 30 ABs or so, huh.