FVBrewerFan

Bulls have a great strategy against the Bucks, crash the boards on the offensive end. Bucks are a horrific rebounding team, surprised more teams don't do the same.

Yet they have given up 44 sacks this season 7th worst this year and their offensive line is getting older and will only be giving up more. If your rookie QB is getting sacked 44 times in a season they are not going to last very long if at all. That was also week 5 almost 3-months ago and they have gotten worse since then. Not that I've seen the Browns play much, but I've heard Kizer is the main reason Kizer got sacked so often.

Yea, I don't know hoe team friendly he would be wiling to get, but if he did a 1 or 2 year deal for $4MM each year he would be worth that. Definitely still a red zone target. I have even heard it suggested he put on some pounds and play TE. But even if he doesn't make that drastic of a change, he would still be valuable in the slot I think, with his size. Similar to Matthews, if he could sell himself on the idea of MLB and really commit to it, I would take him back at half his cap number. But that will never happen. Too bad, because that was the best football he played in the last 4 years or so- when he played MLB.

Last year, with a healthy Rodgers, Nelson was sixth in the NFL with 1257 receiving yards and led the league with 14 TDs. You want him cut? Yes. He's $13.5MM against the cap next year. And I don't think the 2018 version of Jordy is worth anywhere close to that.

Whenever I discuss moving on from TT and MM, I always preface it by saying they're good at their jobs, it's just time for a change. This season has changed my mind about that. I mean, it's not like TT has no clue. He has drafted a few good players the last couple years. Yet, when you look at each position group they are getting worse almost everywhere you look. MM I am coming to realize is quite overrated as a HC. First, he has been given a pass entirely on the defense. Capers gets 100% of the blame. Special Teams haven't been that great, Davis still has no clue when to Fair Catch, when to let it bounce, etc. MM is not the Offensive Coordinator, he is the HC, yet I never hear anyone hold him accountable for defense and ST. Then there's the offense. What I've learned is he can be a great offensive coach when he has Rodgers, and enough pieces to make his scheme work. Fact is, any scheme would work. Watching this team with Hundley shows me MM has no idea how to adapt. Hundley clearly wasn't prepared to play, and he never figured out how to build an offense with Hundley at QB. MM strength has always been being in control of the process throughout the year, handling adversity, and having an offense that works. None of that is true anymore. And he has no answers, doesn't even pretend to have answers. All we hear is "we have to get better." Yea, well. we're coming up on week 17 Mike. Tear it down. TT/MM, most of the coaching staff. Matthews, Nelson, Cobb should be cut. (Cobb could stay if they lower his cap substantially.) Use that money and draft picks to add a couple difference makers, and use the rest to build depth.

Also don't want to get political, but to be fair there were plenty of retail workers not allowed to say "Merry Christmas." But yes, just in every day life nothing was preventing us from saying it.

Nobody missed your point, responses were directly related to your post, which was largely a Woodruff for Odorizzi deal. You can't bring that up and expect people not to respond to it.

Yea, this is how I see it and have posted something similar in the past. There's probably even less than a dozen of them. Nelson pitched like a #1" this year, and for that matter so did Anderson. But an Ace (to me) is someone you throw out on the mound for a playoff game with high confidence they will win regardless of whom they're up against.

I don't think thete are many new ideas. Its about knowing what kind of players yoy need, and being able to communicate that to GM. Then you get them to buy in to what youre doing, and inspire them. Teach them how to play their position in your scheme, and how you fit in the overall scheme. Build an identity. Most "new ideas" in football are recycled with new names.

Just one more arm in the mix, he's not on the 25 yet. If he makes it, yea they could roll with those 3 easily. Hader in not a loogy, Suter really isn't either. Plus Suter has options, I think he starts the year in CS. So the whole Hader situation is unknown, it really is. We can read into every move to fit what we're looking for, but no move yet prevents him from taking on either role.

Can't we just change previous thread to 2018 Pitching? This thread seems redundant.

This must mean Hader will be moved to the rotation for sure.

No idea? None of you seem to want to pay a bullpen guy what MARKET VALUE dictates, despite the huge need we have. You also don't want to pay an ace MARKET VALUE for their services. Also you don't want to trade any prospects because heaven forbid Lewis Brinson and Corbin Burnes are the second coming of Jesus Christ. Thus we have two options: 1) throw guys out there that have never seen a major league batter and pray for the best, 2) sign some decent mid rotation starters cheap like Chacin and keep Hader in the bullpen where he has been torching teams in high leverage situations. Can't have it both ways. Unless of course you'd rather we just resign Jhan Marinez, Neftali Feliz, Oliver Drake types and watch them throw leads away like they're going out of style. I say let it happen organically with Hader with regards to starting. But to start 2018 he's in the pen locking it down with Knebel. Knebel, Jeffress, and Williams have seen MLB batters. And who knows who else will be signed or traded for in the next two months. There's no reason to pay MARKET VALUE when you can get the same player for less than MARKET VALUE either internally or via FA/trade. I can assure you Mark A and Stearns can't wait to spend a lot more money. It's just not quite time yet. You don't throw out the big bucks until you know exactly where to spend it.

I don't know, I don't see the problem with having a thread for trading literally any player. To answer the question though, 6 years of Woodruff for 2 years of Odruzzi? Absolutely not. Here's the problem with trading a guy like Woodruff. It costs the Brewers almost nothing to find out what his upside is, it costs someone else at least somewhat significant prospects to find out. That makes a trade almost impossible, unless the Brewers are very confident his ceiling is really low and suckers someone, or another team is willing to bet he will be really good. There's just no balance there to arrive at a deal.

Couple points here. Since when is the 8th inning more high leverage than the first 3 innings? 8th inning is only high leverage it certain situations, the first 3 innings are always high leverage. In fact, there are plenty of times the "set-up man" is used just to get some work, or in 2-3 run leads. Still valuable, of course, but let's not pretend every appearance is high leverage. Secondly, a really good starting pitcher is more valuable than a late inning reliever for the obvious reason. There are fewer really good SP than really good relief pitchers. Look at just the very recent past, Knebel, Hader, Swarzak, Thornburg, Jeffress, and Smith. I mean, that's only the last two seasons! Hey, I have no dog in this fight. I would like to see Hader start, but if they keep him in pen because they think that's best...I'm fine with that. Doesn't mean he can't get his chance to start next season or whenever. The question at hand is the uncertainty how he would do as a SP. That's a fair debate, and many have been having it. But it's not about whether a great late inning guy is more valuable than a great SP.

Wasn't that Jeffrey Leonard? My bad!

I don't know how the discussion can get any further than Hammonds. It is him, hands down. Nah, it was worth watching him round the bases with one flap down a couple times in between a billion strikeouts.

We don't know either. There is still one starting position completely up in the air. Nothing they have done so far is preventing Hader from starting the season in the rotation, or adding Nelson whether that be in May or August.

Don't fret. Suter still is a near lock to make the team as a long reliever and has an excellent shot to take the 5th starter spot if Hader stays in the pen. The Crew spending $16 million over two years to get numbers that could have come from one of Suter, Jungmann, Hader, Ventura, Burnes, Ortiz, or Derby for a grand total of about $1.5 million. This guy pitched half his games in one of the most pitcher-friendly parks in the majors. Lucroy or Neil Walker would have been a far better use of the money. Why does signing Chacin prevent them from signing both Walker and Lucroy?

True. But I believe they have a better idea on his return than what they're saying publicly. Also, I think for the most part when this is brought up, we've said Nelson ans/or Burnes.

My thing is we shouldn't be giving multi-year, 8 figure contracts to pitchers that are basically Peralta in his career here. If you want innings, just sign guys like Gallardo or Milone last year for next to nothing on one year commitments. While technically true, multi-year contract is a bit misleading. It's a two year contract that doesn't hamstring the team financially in any way. Don't get me wrong, I'm in the camp that would be fine if they didn't sign anybody this off-season. But next best thing is a short term deal like this, and he could be guy you can flip later too.

As I said in a previous post, not quite yet, no. This is a 2 year deal, and it could be less than a one year deal if they move him at the trade deadline. If they were 100% sold that Wooruff, Hader, and Burnes were ready to start from day one, Chacin wouldn't be necessary.

No problem having both Chicon and Wilkerson around. You need more than 5 SP. Anything to avoid the Milones and "a guy I can't even remember*" of the world having to start. *Espino

If it's 2 years, the number $17MM comes to mind for some reason.

Very simply, the Brewers are thin at SP for a few months and Chacin is a cheap and decent way to bridge the gap. Nelson and Burnes will hopefully be ready next season. )Burnes maybe sooner rather than later.) Then by mid-season 2019 you have Ortiz, Peralta, Houser, Ponce, Perin. Plus Hader and/or Williams could get a shot at staring. And that's not even accounting for guys that could be fast risers like Bickford, Yamamoto, etc. Plenty of depth to believe a couple of those guys will be very good starters. That's why Chacin fits at the right place/ right time. If they can build a rotation from within, that leaves gobs of money to spend on a bat or two if they need one in the next couple years. And plenty left to extend the guys they want to extend. That's how you build a contending team that's sustainable.