obobo55

I guess I don't get why people are upset about losing prospects so much in this deal. I like LaPorta and Green and think they will possibly be good ML players soon. OTOH, we got Green with a 25th round pick. LaPorta is a righthanded slugger who probably fits best at 1B. Cain was a 17th round pick. Now if it required a SS (Escobar), a C (Salome), a LH slugger (Gamel), or a P (Jeffress) I would be more upset. I actually think we aren't giving up much at all in this deal if the rumors are true, as we would be getting 2 comp picks in addition to CC's 3 months. While that may not replace LaPorta, I don't see a place for him in Milwaukee anyways unless you deal Hart. Sure, he could step in for Prince at 1B, but then you are losing a LH bat. I like our chances of either acquiring a different 1B or perhaps turning it over to Nelson if nothing develops.

What can anyone tell me about Hu? Hard to imagine the Crew giving up Jeffress, Green, Hardy, and LaPorta in one trade (technically this is two) to get one primo pitching prospect (Kershaw) and a 3 month rental of CC. Hu didn't look like much of anything to me based on stats I saw on baseball reference.

Guess I am not reading this right, but are you saying... LA would get Hardy and CC CLE would get LaPorta, Green, and Jeffress MIL gets Kershaw and Chin-Lung Hu ??? No idea on that one. Have to check on the Dodgers names.

2008 splits (not including 7/4) Question for the board--How much is this just batting 2nd vs hitting 7th (in front of pitcher) and how much is just a hot streak? He now has 105 PAs in the 2-hole with a .991 OPS. I am of the opinion that JJ has played through a number of aches and pains which have limited his effectiveness, but the team had no viable alternatives. I think he could be just scratching the surface of his abilities and would not be against signing him long-term. The question then becomes one like this: What is his worth as a SS? What would he fetch in trade? Could you sign him cheap enough where a move to 2nd/3rd would be worth it as his defensive ability fades? I do like the thought of turning over SS duties to Alcides in a few years, so paying top dollar for JJ at short doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But if you could sign him now for a decent deal, bring Escobar up in May/June next year to give JJ a breather at times and slide Hardy to a different position by '10, it could work out real well. At the same time, if teams are willing to deal a lot for JJ's services at SS, that is something you need to consider as well.

I know that is a bit of a stretch, but it has been done before. If we are in position to make a run at either the division or wildcard at that point and SD is playing their youngsters...Why Not? BTW--The scrubs just swept a 4 gamer against Colorado so it can be done.

AL is dominating overall but how does it breakdown by division? AL East 34-27 (+7) AL Cent 31-25 (+16) AL West 30-24 (+6) NL East 25-34 (-9) NL Cent 30-35 (-5) NL West 21-40 (-19) Guess we know the culprit??? The west just stinks this year. The crew needs to cleanup against the Rockies, Giants, and Padres. I know we have never had much success going on our western road trips, but this year we need to come out of those at .500 or better. 8 of our 21 remaining games against the west come in the nest 2 weeks (4 @ AZ, 4 vs COL). Then out of the break, we play at SF for 3. We only have one other trip to SD and LA in mid-August. The Padres come here for 4 the first week of Sept, when they should be completely out of it and playing youngsters. My hopes: 2-2 @AZ 3-1 COL 2-1 @SF 2-1 @SD 1-2 @LA 4-0 SD 14-6

There is very little reason for Ben to negotiate now. Those of you hoping they can cut a deal with him this year still are really living in la-la-land. In the offseason, he can have 8-12 teams bidding for his services (NYM, NYY, LAA, LAD, HOU, BOS, TEX, BAL, CHC, CHW, STL, MIL). Half of those teams could decide to add an extra year not even expecting to have him pitch and not flinch (look at Pedro's contract). So if you are Sheets, regardless of the injury risk, you wait it out. The real question is--How much does it take to get it done? The second question is--Can the Brewer's afford to tie up that much payroll for an ace? My best guess is 5/100. I think some of those teams may be willing to go 6 or 7 years though. I don't think the Brewer's can afford to go that far. Does Sheets take the biggest offer or does he want to stay in Milwaukee and retire a legend? I can't say I would would blame him no matter which option he chose. bklyn, I think you are off base in your criticism. I don't think Ben would have taken less than a 5-year extension as this is his only real shot at the big deal. He will be 30 as he negotiates this deal, there is no way he extends for 3 years and tries to be a FA again at 33. I don't think the Crew mismanaged Ben on the contract front. With his injuries, you simply could not risk a 5-6 year extension last offseason. Can you win w/o an ace? Yes. It just becomes more difficult. Perhaps the Brewer's could just push the envelope on the lineup and field a team that slugs its way to a championship. $20 million is a lot of cash. You could get a very good bullpen for that amount. A team that averages 6 runs a game and has a stellar BP can win a lot with just decent SP's.

Tbad, the problem with your scenario though is what team is going to trade a Gallardo type for Sheets who will be a FA? Sure sheets may be better than their guy, but the teams that will be in the market are the teams in contention for the playoffs and they would just pitch that guy and take their best shot too. You could maybe pull a deal where you get 2-3 guys with that potential that are a year away, but then you are torpedoing your chances this year. Best case scenario as far as trading Benny is for the team to drop out of the race. If they are in the playoff hunt, they keep him and take their chances in signing him in the offseason. What do most here think is beyond what the Brewer's would offer? I would go 5 years for $100 million (its not my $$$). I think his injury history is over as most of those were very fluky injuries. To me an ace of his caliber is worth that yearly amount and the length of the deal is reasonable, that takes him to age 35 at the end of the deal. Will a team go to 6 years with his history? I know it is a huge risk for a team like the Brewers to take, but it takes an ace to win (particularly in the postseason) and as much as I like Yo, I don't see anyone they have now doing what Ben can. Perhaps Melvin can pull off a miracle and trade for one but I doubt they could sign one in FA either so I would take the risk on him.

OK, at 2-0 I am starting to feel greedy. Is it wrong to hope for .500 over the last 8 and a 6-4 trip? Probably too hopeful, but that would put us at 47-38 coming into that nice looking homestand... Let's go SOUP!!!

'08-- .287 .375 .520 .895 '07-- .288 .395 .618 1.013 His average is almost identical. Down a bit in OBP and a lot in SLG. So is this a down year or was last year an outlier for his career. Is he a guy you still expect to hit 50+ HRs or is a more reasonable projection have him in the mid-thirties to low forties as time goes on. Both are very valuable, but one puts him into MVP team-carrier category while the other has him as an integral part of a good offense. Just for comparison, here is his stats from '06: '06-- .271 .347 .483 .831

+1 in run differential (#16) and 6th best record overall in MLB...maybe Ned is doing an OK job...

I guess the issue for me would be whether we are getting those extra 10 pitches you are talking about as pitches 100-110 or 110-120 (or more). I believe that is where real injury danger lies for starters. If we are just pushing the starter to go into the 7th or 8th under 100 it is fine, but how often does the pitcher get pulled for a hitter anyways at that point regardless of pitch count? The other thing is how effective is McClung or Bush going to be going through the order the third time with that high pitch count? Would we be better off with a fresh reliever? I tend to believe you go with your horses. Get as many starts out of them as you can because you never know when they may go down with an injury. Look at Yo, he went down on an injury that had nothing to do with throwing too many pitches...

I would guess at 3-7 if we didn't have Sheets going twice. He really needs to pin down those wins though. If he wins both, I can see 4-6 and be satisfied. Any better than that and we are really gonna be excited when they come home. If they maintain at 5-5, they come home at 46-39. I have to believe they can get one sweep at home and maybe a 8-2 mark going to the break at 54-41. With the remaining schedule in the 2nd half, that would look real nice. I am not expecting such however and I would be happy at 52-43, going 11-9 in this stretch.

ational League Team-By-Team Standings Grid Tms vs. Ari vs. Atl vs. ChC vs. Cin vs. Col vs. Fla vs. Hou vs. LAD vs. Mil vs. NYM vs. Phi vs. Pit vs. SD vs. SF vs. StL vs. Was Intr Lg Ari -- 2-2 0-3 1-2 8-1 0-3 2-1 4-1 0-3 3-3 2-2 2-2 4-2 4-4 0-0 2-1 5-5 Atl 2-2 -- 0-3 3-3 1-3 5-4 0-0 3-0 1-2 7-2 1-5 2-5 3-0 0-0 0-0 3-5 5-5 ChC 3-0 3-0 -- 3-3 5-1 0-0 3-3 5-2 2-4 2-0 1-2 9-3 5-2 0-0 1-2 1-2 3-4 Cin 2-1 3-3 3-3 -- 0-0 5-2 0-2 1-7 3-3 1-2 3-5 2-4 2-2 2-1 2-4 0-0 5-2 Col 1-8 3-1 1-5 0-0 -- 0-0 2-1 3-6 2-1 2-2 0-5 0-0 3-3 4-5 3-4 0-0 7-2 Fla 3-0 4-5 0-0 2-5 0-0 -- 1-2 0-3 5-1 2-4 3-3 3-2 2-1 2-1 0-0 8-1 4-6 Hou 1-2 0-0 3-3 2-0 1-2 2-1 -- 3-0 4-5 0-0 3-4 1-2 3-3 3-1 4-8 2-1 2-8 LAD 1-4 0-3 2-5 7-1 6-3 3-0 0-3 -- 2-1 3-4 0-0 2-1 4-5 2-1 1-2 0-0 1-6 Mil 3-0 2-1 4-2 3-3 1-2 1-5 5-4 1-2 -- 2-1 1-1 2-1 0-0 3-0 5-4 2-2 5-6 NYM 3-3 2-7 0-2 2-1 2-2 4-2 0-0 4-3 1-2 -- 4-2 1-1 0-4 2-1 0-0 5-4 6-2 Phi 2-2 5-1 2-1 5-3 5-0 3-3 4-3 0-0 1-1 2-4 -- 2-1 2-1 3-3 1-2 3-3 2-5 Pit 2-2 5-2 3-9 4-2 0-0 2-3 2-1 1-2 1-2 1-1 1-2 -- 0-0 3-0 5-4 3-4 2-5 SD 2-4 0-3 2-5 2-2 3-3 1-2 3-3 5-4 0-0 4-0 1-2 0-0 -- 3-5 1-2 2-1 3-7 SF 4-4 0-0 0-0 1-2 5-4 1-2 1-3 1-2 0-3 1-2 3-3 0-3 5-3 -- 4-3 4-0 2-8 StL 0-0 0-0 2-1 4-2 4-3 0-0 8-4 2-1 4-5 0-0 2-1 4-5 2-1 3-4 -- 5-1 3-4 Was 1-2 5-3 2-1 0-0 0-0 1-8 1-2 0-0 2-2 4-5 3-3 4-3 1-2 0-4 1-5 -- 5-5 So the Crew is at .500 or better against all but 5 teams--Col (played in Coors), Boston (played in Fenway), Min (played at home), LAD (played at home), and Fla (series over). They are 4-14 in those games, against the other teams they are 36-20. They have just 9 games remaining against those clubs, 6 after next weeks series in the Metrodump. This next roadtrip is key as we will finish our series with the D-backs. Having 12 games remaining against the Reds and Pirates appeals to me, and 7 vs the Padres should do us well too. Hosting both Washington and Colorado for 4 game sets may work nicely...

Chicago's record against these 5 teams (AZ, CO, LA, SD, PIT) is 26-6. Brewer's are 6-3 versus the same teams. Cubs are 13-16 against the rest of their schedule while the Crew is 26-25. 23 games that the Brewers have to do real well to make up ground. That Chicago have already played 12 games against the Pirates gives me some hope (we have played 3). Need to pummel the Rockies this weekend to start.

I just don't get excited about anyone pitching in A-ball anymore. That goes for Yo, Inman, Jeffress, Rogers...any of them. There seems to be such a huge difference between A & AA, where pitchers can get away with 1 pitch on the lower level but it gets exposed at the next. Given that Will had some questions about his velocity, while I was intrigued--I would not be sold until he performed in Huntsville. He had mixed results there and perhaps he will find his way, but for any of you that were counting on him taking a spot in the rotation (in '09), IMO you were WAYYYYYYYYY premature. At the same time, I was underwhelmed by the return. A 2-month rental can only yield so much. For a somewhat struggling middle reliever it seemed quite pricey. So, I understand why this provokes many of the close followers of the organization to be perplexed. The way I see it is Melvin diagnosed the major league teams biggest need and found a solution for a price he was willing to pay. If Inman becomes even a competent ML starter it was probably too high a cost to pay given what average SP cost in FA. I'm betting the team's scouts thought he wouldn't get that far. What really is driving this IMO is that the upper levels now seem devoid of an impact player. Well that is partly by design. By taking Braun and Weeks and moving them through the system in a "surge" to coincide with Hardy, Fielder, and Hart there was destined to be a eddy in its wake. Personally I still like Lou, Heether, Hurricane, Crabbe and others to be capable players in the majors eventually. They may not have the impact of the guys we have just received, but they can step in and fill the spots of the older vets adequately. If our "stars" are as good as we expect there are not many spots to fill immediately anyways. I like the deal in the end as I think the 'brink will help a lot down the stretch. Whether it was worth what we gave up is entirely uncertain which makes it a decent deal for both teams. I think we may have become too used to Melvin pulling off miracleshttp://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

Perhaps this was discussed already back when the interleague games had just finished, but looking at the standings I had some thoughts. Overall the AL beat the NL 137 to 115. AL East was even overall AL Central was +6 AL West was +16 NL East was -5 NL Central was -7 NL West was -10 What I found interesting is the top 3 AL teams went 40-14. Boston, Detroit, and Anaheim were just truly dominant. take out those games and the matchup between the leagues swings to the NL's favor 101-97. Obviously you can't do that, but it shows that the leagues are fairly even outside of those 3 clubs. Personally I will look at our 2-1 series win over the Tigers on the road and smile. The other interesting thing I noticed is that the Cubs only played 12 interleague games (with 6 against the ChiSox). Every other NL team played at least 15, with Colorado, Florida & Washington playing 18. That seems strange to me, not that it matters but wouldn't you think they would try to get the Cubs into more different cities as they draw well wherever they play? Also interesting is how much a factor those games have had on the divisional races. Factoring out the interleague games: Boston's lead on NYY drops from 8 to 6. Detroit goes from leading by 1 to trailing by 4 to the Indians. The Angels drop behind Seattle, again going from a 1 game advantage to behind by 4. The Mets lose their 3.5 lead on the Braves and trail by .5 The Crews current 2.5 lead grows to 4. The tie between the Padres/Dodgers becomes a 1 game LA lead. Who knows what would have happened if they didn't have Interleague games? Perhaps the teams were just playing that well at the time and the results would be the same, but it is interesting that those few selected games--designed just to drive attendance--could have that big an effect on every race. Oh yeah, BTW, the Brewers still have the best record in the National League!

Thanks Mass. Just seems curious that they start DeFelice before Manny. I guess I get the inning limitation aspect. With Nashville building up a large lead in their division, might as well keep Manny fresh in case the Brewers need to call on him in Sept.

OK, now I am certain something is up. Reading the link report, the Sounds starter for today is DeFelice making his debut after the callup from Huntsville. I just can't see him getting the start before Manny unless there is something up. I haven't heard anything so I assume there is no injury news we are being shielded from (knock on wood). What plan do the Brewers have for Manny that would require holding him out? Is there a trade that is this close to happening?

Maybe I am just too excited about Manny. I just figured he would start the 1st game after the break. Instead they went with Dickey, then Jackson, and today it is Pettyjohn... So...is this anything of note? Are the Brewers holding him back thinking about a promotion or is he just slotted behind the other 3 in Nashville's rotation at this point? Just curious because each day when I open the link report I am hoping to see his name as the starting pitcher and I have been disappointed for 8 days in a row (granted that includes the all-star break).http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

interesting idea, but I think it is going to end up fizzling out after an initial surge. I just think you will end up with the ultra prospects being discussed by their most avid followers. For me--I can get the info I want on those guys by reading through the link reports (thanks Mass!). What I would be interested in is more info on the more obscure guys. that weren't high draft picks but are showing ability (perhaps at an advanced age) in AA or AAA. Oxspring/Dillon/Dickey/Rottino if he weren't a WI native-types. They are never listed on the power 50 list and many of us (or at least me) know nothing about where they came from or what "stuff" they have. While I too enjoy following what the youngsters do in A-ball, the differences are huge when you get to AA and many prospects never get beyond that stage. I think we could do more to celebrate the successes of the less hyped players that are nearing the Show. Just my humble opinion FWIW...

Was this serious? I don't see how giving up two average SP that are still cheap, and a SP prospect that may be great and supercheap for 4-5 years PLUS an above average CF makes any sense at all. I like Oswalt. I could see a deal where you include Inman & Capuano and some others as something that could work, but I would hate to make the Astros rotation for them considering they are in the division. I guess it depends on whether you believe you need a second dominant starter to compete in the playoffs. I wouldn't mind having one, but if you can put out a great offense I think you can get by with "decent" starters. Bush, Suppan, and Cappy will keep games close and give the team a chance to win IMO. Sure they won't win any 2-1 games, but in that case I lay the blame on the hitters. I really like Bush too so I suppose where some may not consider him worth keeping I am big in his corner and see any trade in which he is dealt as a major loss to our rotation. In general, I simply consider SP too valuable to deal away. Particularly if they are under market-value. Simply "good" starters get Suppan-level deals, the Brewers will never be able to afford 5 of those and you really need 6-7 to sustain your staff through the ravages of injuries. If I am going to deal a good, cheap, durable SP...I want something huge in return. Oswalt is large enough return, but I need more to give up what you listed.

I know this may be early and things could obviously change for multiple reasons, but going with the probable pitchers from the MLB site here is the opposition for the 10 game homestand: Francis (3.87) vs Sheets Lopez (4.83) vs Suppan Cook (4.68) vs Capuano Davis (4.26) vs Bush ???(D-backs 5th starter) vs Vargas Webb (3.37) vs Sheets Hernandez (4.54) vs Suppan Lowry (3.35) vs Capuano Lincecum (4.63) vs Bush Zito (4.90) vs Vargas Couple of tough tasks for Benny and some other tough matchups as well, but I like our bats at home against this lineup. The best is Webb, hopefully Sheets can be acey that day.

Thought I would add 1 more just to bump this thread further along in its chase to catch the vent threadhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif With the Padres loss last night, we have a decent chance at becoming the first team to get to 50 wins in the NL. The Padres and Dodgers don't play until Friday as well and since they are at home (late starts) we could get to 50 before they have a chance if we can beat the Rockies on Friday. Hmmmmm says here that Sheets will be pitching, and a bobble.....I may have to attend mlb.mlb.com/news/probable_pitchers.jsp?c_id=mlb&ymd=20070713 Now the only issue that may prevent this from happening is that the Mets play the Reds on Thursday and Friday at home and their Friday game starts about an hour before ours does. Maybe the Reds could win 1 or perhaps we could root for a rain delay. This is fun. Why is this only on page 8?

Just for those of you trippin' about the ground the Cubs have made up on us recently................. We could be Angels fans http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif On June 24th, they had an 8 game lead in the division over Seattle and a 5 game lead on the closest wild-card team, Cleveland. mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings...d=20070624 Since then they are 4-8. The lead in the division has shrunk to 2.5 games. They maintain a wild card lead of 1 over Cleveland. I wonder how much their playoff expectancy numbers have changed over those 14 days... Swept at home by KC, 4-5 on a road trip against some pretty miserable competition (Balt, Texas, NYY are actually worse overall than our trio of CHC, Pitt, Wash). Boy am I glad i am not an Angel scoreboard-watcher http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/pimp.gif