DHonks

To answer this thread's question, I believe we will get pitching from the 2008 draft. We draft a ton of young pitching that should really start contributing next year with Wooten. Last year's high school arms could really put the system's pitching on the map beginning this offseason. Still, it would be nice to have Rogers, Jones, and Anundsen each at a higher level to test them. We're at the point where--in the past--the Brewers would promote a player to give them a taste of the higher level. I see next year's bullpen possibly having contributions from Axford, Jones, Wooten, and Braddock.

Of that list, the only ones that I'd be intrigued by are Davis, Penny, Wolf, Lackey, Washburn, Marquis, Myers, and Bedard. Duchscherer would be okay. I'd also assume the Crew tries to bring back Capuano on an incentive laiden deal

Crawford would be a clear upgrade over Hart. If he can play CF, even better. While his OBP may not be as great as we'd all like, he has the ability to completely take over a game....that's pretty rare as a hitter when you can influence the entire game

I don't get why we'd do something symbolic for Jenkins. He was a mediocre player that had a lasting reputation in Milwaukee because he played on awful teams and was a rare successful farmhand. But Jenkins could barely hit 4 years ago and couldn't play defense.

I always thought Jenkins was far from a team player. At the same time, if he's been working out, I'd consider signing him to a minor league deal with the chance to earn a September callup. Hart could be dealt for pitching in the offseason and a Jenkins/Katin platoon could probably match Hart's numbers. Of course, I'd rather have more Catalanotto type players in the lineup. I think the team is way too heavy with SLG guys and needs to focus more on the OBP/AVG aspects of OPS. That's why I'd definitely consider moving guys like Hart and Hardy.

I like how it's 50-50, but leaning one way. Wouldn't that mean it's 51-49?

AzBrew...I'm in AZ, Scottsdale to be specific.

Al, what do you mean lack of velocity? Dillard was hitting 91-93 mph consistently with 2-seamers. Last night he was hurt in part because a guy beat one into the ground off the plate. It seemed to me that his problem was that he couldn't get ahead of hitters. To question his secondary pitches is fine. But to question his velocity?

jvrocksaz, I'd be tempted to drive over to SD for the game just to show support. But since I couldn't find any Brewers fans from CA, NV, or AZ that are interested in going, I am going to enjoy watching on Extra Innings. Plus, I can turn it off if it gets ugly and go back to watching the Season 2 DVD of Psych

wibadgers23, additionally if the Brewers are 9+ games out entering September, the Brewers ought to shut Gallardo down, or at least go with a 6 man rotation

From all accounts, he's a great teammate--almost like a mentor. Given that his fastball has returned, it'd be nice to hear about his secondary pitches. But his velocity and relatively efficient pitch counts have been positives while his surgeries, walks, and home runs have been negatives. Still, this has to be the best his arm has felt since his first year or two.

I'm contemplating either driving or flying into San Diego for Saturday or Sunday's games. It depends on if I can find someone interested in coming. Only a 6 hour drive from Phoenix.

If Mark A vetoed this trade idea because of finances, he hasn't done his homework at all. Harang is a Good #3 pitcher in his bad seasons, a solid ace in his good seasons. And for under $15 million per year, he's a relative bargain. I'd do a Hardy for Harang swap without thinking twice.

What makes Counsell great (not in a HOF way) is that he plays with constant energy, takes pride in his defense, and is selfless. His talent level isn't high, but--like Eckstein--he maxes out his ability. The anti-Counsell in my mind was always Belliard. Belly had more power and skills, but was often frustrating to watch because he was more focused on the wad in his mouth than defense and execution.

RyDogg, it's been on at least 3 times a game for every Brewers game for probably 1 1/2 months.

his Brewers video (there was a link in the Off Topic Forum last year) is hilarious as he does guys rapid fire (yes, I know he does them for all teams). He does guys like Yount, Cooper, Burnitz, Jenkins, Counsell, etc. It's worth it to see where this guy started out. Hilarious stuff

Topper (class '99), I've always felt that sometimes pitchers have more in their tank than other occasions. So occasionally letting pitchers go 115-120 isn't bad. But often times young pitchers work hard throwing only 100 pitches in 5 innings on a hot, muggy night. Those are the outings where Yo and Parra should not be pushed for another inning, because those are high stress innings and on a night when fatigue is a factor

Salome's had a pretty good year except for these mysterious 4-7 day absences. We haven't heard how his defense is progressing, but his offense has come back around

Topper (I assume a fellow MUHS fella), while that makes sense, we've now seen lots of players that had their effectiveness rapidly decline following heavy workload seasons. Yes, you are right that the vast majority of pitchers have short careers because of ineffectiveness. But Yo is better than most of those already. Our concern is that Yo could go the way of studs (Schilling, Sheets, Oswalt, Alex Fernandez, etc), or he could be worn out/injured and become like Eldred, Livian Hernandez, Russ Ortiz, Nick Neugebauer, Jeff D'Amico (see 2000 season as his abuse season), and so many others that were loaded with potential. There is something to be said for the way the M's have handled Felix Hernandez, the Twins with Johann Santana, etc. Yo should be on a 100-pitch count, with the ability to occasionally go to 110-115. He should not be going 100+ in 85% of his starts, including 110+ in nearly half of them. He's still not even close to 25. Once a pitcher hits 24/25, I'm less concerned. But I think of how much men's bodies often change between 20-25, and it makes sense to be careful

Anyone think we can con a team into taking a certain proven post-season hero off our hands in exchange for a bag of baseballs?

I don't believe this to be really true. Sheets and CC never really pitched together. Last year, combined, they basically equalled one player of service time. Actually, they were together, but we all were noticing Sheets was not the same after the all-star break. In fact, I heard a rumor his arm was hurting in late June which was when his numbers started to slip. Still, they were together in the rotation for roughly 5 weeks. However, we really lost 5 months of an allstar pitcher in Sheets and 3 months of an allstar pitcher in Sabathia. At the same time, This year we've had 4 months of an allstar pitcher in Yo (he would have been an allstar if he hadn't pitched the Sunday before the game). Go back about 10 days and you'd have roughly the same amount of games played as last year when we acquired Sabathia. The difference in the roster is hardly noticeable, yet the result was roughly 7 or 8 games difference. And I hate all this stuff about "Macha the stats guy," because Ned quoted stats on a daily basis. Macha has not played the percentages in close games. If Attanasio fired Yost for his team underachieving, Attanasio should have Macha canned tonight. Ned's team looked great last year until the epic slide in September. Macha's team (the same team!) has looked awful for most of this season, save a 4 week stretch from late April through late May.

At this point I'm a believer that Macha can't return next year and may not finish August. My beef with him: 1) We're 7 games behind last year's pace entering today (56 vs 49 wins). Our team is nearly identical to last year. The personnel are basically the same. Consider the rotation: -About the equivalence of 10 games ago, we acquired Sabathia. -Sheets was the All-star starter; this year Yo would have been an allstar if he hadn't started the last game -Parra was sent to the minors for being awful; last year Bush was sent to the minors for being awful -Bush was good but got hurt and had a bad fill-in; last year McClung was okay but Villy was awful before him -Suppan has been the same the offense: -same lineup, only we're better at 2b and 3b with Lopez/Counsell/McGehee/Weeks than just Weeks and Gamel/McGehee/Counsell than Hall/Counsell (Branyan was brought up around early July last year, I think). 2) Macha continues to run the organizations top young arms (Parra and Gallardo) out there for extra innings/batters, running their pitch counts well into the 110's. 3) Macha has no emotion, energy, or fire. I have friends that hated Yost that are now calling me saying they miss how Yost would go out to the mound and tongue-lash some of his pitchers. 4) he doesn't bunt unless it's a pitcher at the plate; then he always bunts. Macha had at least two games in June when he allowed a groundball hitter to slap into a double play in the 9th inning (and down 1 run or tied) instead of bunting him to scoring position 5) he doesn't start runners to avoid double plays 6) he likes to push his starters to get extra innings despite bad pitch counts. Yost was ridiculed for pushing starters to get an extra inning and they usually were in great shape, pitch-count wise. Why the double-standard? 7) he likes to bring in too many relievers. An instance I'm thinking of is that several times Villanueva was in the game and threw a solid 6th/7th inning in a game that had already been decided. Yost would have left Villanueva in to finish the game, accepting that 1 member of his pen would be unavailable the next day. Macha instead likes to parade relievers into the games when some relievers could easily go an extra inning to save a pen-mate Really, there are two differences with this team over last year. We have a new manager and a new pitching coach. Perhaps we have too many cooks in the kitchen, and we need to can Macha and let either Randolph or Sveum lead this team.

I'd let Villanueva and Dillard both move into the rotation and promote Wooten for the pen. We really don't have a long guy now, though. Too bad we can't do the minor league paper transactions that Mass has documented so well.

jjhardy, I seem to recall earlier this season (or late last season) that he was throwing 92 (or was it 94? either way, still better than Suppan, Looper, Villanueva, Bush, and our entire AAA rotation). I think (from all accounts) Mike knows how to get guys out, he just is still working on trying to get command back. His arm just doesn't always throw it where he wants it to go, but has been much better this year as he's now about 24 months removed from Tommy John surgery and at least 40 months removed from major shoulder surgery).

Brad, Mike Jones would be on a regular turn! Sorry, had to drop that in there