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I know there is a PTBNL in the trade with the Mets, but can anyone who has the MiLB experience speak to the equivalent of Zack Thornton in the Brewers system? I have heard Fiers mentioned somewhere on the site. Also, could someone talk about Thornton in regard to Johnny Hellweg as well? While we don't know the PTBNL, I wonder if Hellweg and Fiers for Ike would have worked? I think I would've done that to be honest.

While I certainly have had my complaints about Ron Roenicke and his managing style, I have to give the man a lot of credit for what he has managed to do over the second half of last season and the first 20 games of this season. After the disastrous May, the Brewers had a record of 32-49 after 81 games last season. They finished the second half of last year with a record of 42-39, with a ton of starts being given to Scooter, Davis, Schafer, Betancourt, Maldonado, Halton and Bianchi. With Braun's suspension, Weeks having season ending surgery, Hart out for the entire season and Ramirez in and out of the lineup, a record close to .500 while allowing the aforementioned Brewers to get their first whiffs of the Majors was an accomplishment. Fast forward to 2014 where the Brewers have added Braun and Ramirez back to the lineup and added Garza and Reynolds from FA, the Brewers are off to the 15-5 start, brining the Crew's record to 57-44 over the past 101 games. Moreover, they have reshuffled the deck in the bullpen with K-Rod back into the closer role, Henderson working through his issues, Smith and Thornburg being new additions... I just have to say that Roenicke has done a fantastic job navigating through all the issues this team has endured over the past 12 months. Does that mean we won't go through some down periods this season? No. Does this mean that he won't drive me nuts sometimes? No. It just means that given the circumstances surrounding this team with Braun; that the Brewers currently have 2 relatively unheralded prospects starting at 2B and LF who are developing; that the Brewers are developing Thornburg into what appears to be a bullpen ace...and numerous other things, that I think we should take a step back and give Roenicke some credit.

Amen... It seems like the best teams in baseball always have players like Scooter in their everyday lineup. While maybe not the superstar on the team, Scooter sure is starting to seem like a pest and an issue that other teams are going to have to start game planning for. I am hopeful that RRR let's Scooter start seeing LHP more to see if he can start developing some consistency against them.

While we're on the subject, where is BA? As for Lepay, I like him. I think he has to transition to the sport but he certainly is learning quickly. I think he is infinitely more enjoyable than Joe Block was when he first started. On a side note, I still miss Corey Provus. Block has improved to the point of passable but I wonder if Provus would be interested in coming back on a full time basis once Uecker retires, as he seems to split a lot of the time with Dan Gladden when I listen to the Twins.

Seriously... It's one thing to act high and mighty about certain things, it's quite the opposite when you are a hypocrite and criticize the same behaviors you yourself displayed a day or two previously.

Chase Headley has always reminded me of Corey Koskie. A guy who is a real solid contributor, but by no means an elite talent. With rumors out here that he is expecting to get paid like an elite talent, I would have a hard time parting with the necessary pieces to trade for him and then have to pay him a huge salary on top of that.

I know he's only 23 but is it too soon to ask.... "How's Geritt Cole going to explain this to his kids?"

........while doing a DX style 'crotch chop'. THat would be epic. This should be the 2014 Brewers answer to the Pirates "pistols" except instead of directing it back to the Brewers dugout, turn directly to the opposing dugout and do it. Can't wait for Gomez to jack one out, not run and stand and home plate and do this.

The real issue I have with the whole situation is a man coming over and saying something and walking away and letting everyone else handle his words. Cole, in his post game comments, said he didn't swear at Gomez. If you listen to the Pirates broadcast it sure does sound like he dropped an f bomb about something. Don't mind the cussing or the anger from Cole. Just be a man and back up your words yourself. Don't let walk away from your words. Watch where Cole is in the entire situation. Sure seems like he ran his mouth, got called out and ran away.

I love Estrada and what he brings to the team. However, reverse your position. Would you trade a major prospect for Estrada if you were on a contender? Say this were 2010 and we had Brett Lawrie, would you trade him for what Marco does and at his age? I just wouldn't do it. It's not a disrespect of Estrada, rather it's my realistic view of a 31 year old pitcher who, while very good, wouldn't bring a Lawrie type prospect in any trade.

It's just super disappointing on so many levels. We have such a hole at 1B and our best option is Reynolds, who is under .200 and may strike out 200+ times. Ike...man. He's better than Reynolds. After reading about Boras' relationship with Attanasio, I have zero doubt that the Brewers and Kendrys are destined for one another. I just pray Reynolds hits enough to get that deal after the draft.

Zack Thornton and a PTBNL http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/18/pirates-acquire-ike-davis-in-a-trade-with-the-mets/ http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=thornt001zac

Well that is disappointing. We'll have to see who the prospects are that the Pirates gave up and whether or not we would have offered the same thing. I think the Pirates just bought a lottery ticket that could pay off huge. It could also blow up in their face... I just hope this doesn't mean Kendrys is in Milwaukee anytime soon.

Good deal TLB... Sorry about that. It took a long time to write the post and it didn't have a home after that thread got locked.

CONTINUED DISCUSSION FROM THE LOCKED JEFRESS THREAD IN TRANSACTIONS & RUMORS Sure. I agree that you have to look at the value at what was received back at the time. But you have no clue other than pure speculation as to what those prospects could have brought back other than Greinke. So at the time, the assigned value of those prospects, gave the Brewers Greinke. Could the Brewers have acquired more? You don't know and neither do I. Your wanting to look at the moment rather than look back in hindsight is being done to serve your argument's purpose as the Brewers currently have players that are better than any of those prospects at all of those positions. Escobar became Segura. That is a fact. The FO traded a group of assets (prospects) for another asset (Greinke). When that asset couldn't be retained, it was traded for another asset (Segura). Marcum and Sabathia have no relevance to this discussion and are completely unrelated. The opportunity costs you speak of...what are those? Moves that could have been made had the Brewers held Brantley, Lawrie, Cain, Jeffress, Odorizzi and Escobar? What trades are those? Or do you mean the Brewers could have had that team in 2009-2013? Again, this is pure speculation on your part as to what the Brewers could have been with an everyday lineup comprised of Lawrie, Escobar, Cain and Brantley. Cain would have been the starter in CF had the Greinke trade not occurred. I firmly believe that. However, having Gomez allowed the Brewers to part with Cain in the Greinke trade. An opportunity arose and the Brewers took it and it paid off handsomely as Cain has never lived up to expectations, whereas Gomez has. "I'll take my chances with toolsy players who are excellent defenders and hope they can ascend offensively, at least through arbitration"...did you just describe Carlos Gomez? Yes. Yuni stunk. Marcum trade...exceptionally shortsighted. You and I agree there. Do I wish the FO had acquired a younger arm with higher upside than Marcum? Absolutely. Um...What? Looper was signed for 2009, Davis and Wolf for 2010, Lohse for 2013...did I miss some big trade of a young arm by the Brewers? Odorizzi, the only pitching prospect dealt, was still in the organization for every one of those signings save Lohse. The Brewers have not dealt a pitching prospect that has turned into anything in the time period you are referencing unless you count Rob Bryson and Zack Jackson in the Sabathia deal. Sheets blew his arm out, the Brewers went as far as they could with Sabathia to meet his $ demands. You and I absolutely agree on how best to build a team and I agree with this philosophy. I typically enjoy the posts you make because they are well researched and informative. The issue I took with this one is the fact that it is implied that the Brewers didn't maximize their assets and the argument is based on speculation. The only asset that we have a firm report on (to my knowledge) that likely wasn't maximized was Lawrie when the reports of opposing GMs not knowing he was available surfaced. However, the other assets you mentioned, we had no clue as to what was offered. The only way we as fans can judge trades is in hindsight. A perfect example is the JJ Hardy-Carlos Gomez trade, which I despised at the time. However, this is the perfect example of how hindsight gives us clarity on a deal as both players have thrived in different environments (granted Hardy's wasn't in Minnesota). Playing armchair GM in the moment is great for message boards, but in reality doesn't show the whole picture. If we know what all the options on the table are (i.e. what trade packages were offered for Lawrie, Escobar, Odorizzi, Jeffress, Brantley), it would be fair to say whether the Brewers maximized their assets' value. However, our only barometer as to the success of a deal as fans is hindsight. Go Brewers

Not if I beat you to that mountain...

The original Greinke trade looks better and better everyday. Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress have all been replaced by equal or better players in the system save for maybe Odorizzi. -Segura v. Escobar: Close, but likely a Brewer win -Gomez v. Cain: Brewers -Jeffress has really not done much -Odorizzi would be nice to have now as a long term replacement option with Thornburg and Nelson for Lohse, Estrada and/or possibly Yo, but in hindsight that would not have stopped me from making the deal. Jeffress still can bring the gas. It's just a matter of control. Johnny Hellweg anyone?

Because of the rape allegations? The way he plays? The fact that he is MASSIVELY overrated?

I still won't be surprised to Ike in Milwaukee. Looking at that list of FAs post-2014, it becomes increasingly apparent that the Brewers will have to deal for a legitimate 1B and while its debatable that Ike is a LEGIT 1B, he represents one of the only options that remain out there and is available.

Yes...this is a double-edged sword though. I think the Brewers will be too close to competing this year to make a move of one of our 1-5. While I think this would be the most beneficial to the long term, I doubt Melvin would actually do this. In fact, I would be hesitant to do it unless it brought back a prospect or player that would be close to a guaranteed producer at 1B or 3B in the long term. Ultimately, I think Estrada may have more value to us than what we could realistically receive in any trade. I don't see us acquiring anything more than a Delmonico-type prospect.

Listening to Pittsburgh fans boo Ryan Braun tonight is pretty embarrassing given that I would imagine most of them are Steelers fans who still root for Big Ben despite his rape allegation a few years back. Same thing in Boston with Big Papi & Manny Ramirez and their PED usage. Same thing in Philadelphia with Michael Vick and his dog fighting scandal. I guess the Ryan Braun saga has really made me evaluate what being a fan means. I doubt I will be booing too many players anymore given that we all have players on our teams that are by no means saints and we still root for them.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10781398/jedd-gyorko-signs-contract-extension-san-diego-padres 6 years $35 million for Gyorko... I doubt that Segura takes this extension but this is much more in line with where I thought his value was. I don't think Segura will be extended in 2014 unless he goes .300/.340/.430 12 HR, 40 SB in 2014. Only then will the Brewers be willing to pay Simmons-type money.

Great post...and as others have mentioned this should be the way the team plays it with Gallardo. However, what happens if another scenario is developing here. What if we are witnessing the first year of Yovani's career being re-defined? Could Yovani be developing into a Kyle Lohse-type of pitcher who relies less on heat and more on movement and control? Say Yovani goes the next two years at around 3.5 ERA and a 1.15 WHIP all while continuing to refine his curve, cutter, slider and, most importantly, his control all while working with the lower velocity fastball of 90-91. Do you extend him then?

In my opinion, a return to the retro would be the preferred route even though I love the M with barley logo. The retro logo is a classic and a staple of the Brewers and what the team is really identified with historically. Like others have mentioned, a tweak or two here or there could be done to accommodate "modernizing" the look a little but what I would like to see is the following: HOME: Current retro uniform. While some may not like it, it is the Brewers. That's the Brewers identified look and maybe could use a Blue Jays-esque modernization, but wouldn't drift too far away from that scheme unless they use HOME alternate #1 below... HOME Alternates: 1. Ball and Glove on chest on a solid white jersey minus the pinstripes. Think the new 2014 retro batting practice jersey. This may end up being the full time home jersey given time. 2. Ball and glove on chest on a royal blue jersey. Same as the retro batting practice jersey minus the yellow patches under the sleeves. AWAY: Gray Milwaukee script jersey from the late 80s/early 90s that seems to be universally loved. AWAY alternate: Ball and Glove on chest on yellow jersey. Same as home except yellow jersey instead of royal blue. I think these looks would be more identifiable and the Brewers will additional revenue by creating alternates of the "new" design. A new German/Polish/Italian/Latin heritage day with the new design. Retro blue days with the blue away jersey instead of the gray. White panel hat days. Yellow panel hat days. For those who argue the revenue side of the Brewers having two logos currently, I have to think that the revenue generated through the creation of a new ball and glove centric logo and the new merchandise it would create through the creation of new jerseys, would greatly outweigh what having two current logos currently provide. Essentially, the Brewers would be creating at least four new regular jerseys (3 alternates, new road gray) and possibly a fifth with a modernization of the daily home. Add to it at least four new heritage day jerseys and new white panel and yellow panel hats and I think the Brewers would realize a windfall in terms of merchandising opportunities that aren't currently available to the team.

I've been only able to follow on my phone via MLB At Bat all weekend and just got to a place where I can watch highlight from the Pirates series. Is there any reason why the Brewers wore the retro uniform all weekend? Wasn't sure if there was an event or it was planned? Any insight on this?