xisxisxis

Yeah but for the most part the Brewers played Sunday with the JV team. And the Marlins are a AAA team. Beating up on them means nothing. NOTHING. If we want to petition the International League to join then the Brewers have a fantastic chance at winning it all in 2014. If we want the team to stay in MLB, not so much....

So Braun's responses since Early 2012 have been: DENY DENY DENY DENY DENY DENY DENY DENY DENY & HOLD A PRESSER TO PROCLAIM YOUR VINDICATION DENY DENY DENY WELL I DID SOME THINGS WRONG..... Is that about right?

I'm not familiar with the CBA on this I haven't read the entire CBA, but I do know there isn't a clause that outlines the punishment for a player whose name appears on a notepad of an alleged supplier of PEDs. As MLB tries to enforce vague clauses with punishments far in excess of stipulated infractions they open themselves up to legal challenges. If your employer decides to fire you or suspend you because your name and number are in the contacts of a convicted drug dealer, you can certainly sue them to overturn the decision and seek compensation. An employer, no matter what collective bargaining agreement is in place, is always open to legal challenges when they act or apply vague clauses in that agreement. There is certainly plenty of room to challenge the concept that the biogenesis documents are "evidence" that a player possessed PEDs. Braun's case is even more vague, because his name was only linked to an amount owed and no actual PED. Braun also has a case to go directly to court and ignore the arbitration process by pointing out he won't get a fair hearing because the last time he went to arbitration and won MLB fired the arbiter. Even though the MLBPA signed off on the current arbiter, it's clear what MLB could do if the current arbiter ruled in Braun's favor. I think a judge cold be swayed that Braun couldn't get a fair arbitration hearing. Other players might also be able to make the same argument. These issues are all pretty easy really if you are talking about a player failing a test. Once you move into uncharted territory in the CBA, there are plenty of ways for a player to operate outside the arbitration process and take this to a court.

I have a hard time foreseeing how this winds up with anything aside from a long battle in court. MLB doesn't have much of an argument based on what the public currently knows. But MLB is threatening the "death penalty" to scare players into copping a plea to lesser charges. Much of MLB security/enforcement is former law enforcement. They know this game very well and it is just simply scare tactics. Any player who wants to spend some money on a halfway decent lawyer will be told to ride it out as there is no way they have enough evidence to bring a serious case against anyone involved with Biogenesis. If MLB thinks they can actually move forward with some of these draconian measures without spending years in court and tens of millions of dollars in legal fees to lose then bud is as stupid as I think he is.

I am waiting for one of these "clinic" owners to get smart and use the law in their favor. If they simply add an MD to the payroll and make a player seek "treatment" then HIPAA will protect both parties. No way MLB can coerce any information out of them or use it legally. In fact, MLB could be sued for asking said "clinic" anything about what the players received. One thing the Conrad Murray/Michael Jackson fiasco taught us is that you can turn over almost any rock and find an MD to do almost anything as long as they are paid well. Fronting for a "clinic" doesn't even come close to the same level of culpability.

it has nothing to do with what either team has done in the past yep. it's irrelevant what happened before I became a fan. it's irrelevant the Marlins have won 2 more World Series than the brewers. it's irrelevant the pirates have had a storied history with multiple championships and 2 more titles since the brewers existed. it's irrelevant the brewers franchise is a steaming pile of crap. because we're just delusional brewer fans who rationalize and distort every fact. yeah the game of baseball has changed dramatically, now we play with 9 players and the AL has the DH, back in 1979 it was completely different....

Comparing the Brewers and Pirates is just ridiculous. The Pirates have only won 5 World Series, 9 Pennants and have had 14 playoff appearances (1 per 8.5 years) in their history. Clearly the Brewers are the better organization.....

Another one bites the dust Another one bites the dust And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust Hey, I'm gonna get you too Another one bites the dust

You can't have 2/3rds of an outfield putting up sub .800 OPS's and expect the offense to just click along. This sort of thinking is so myopic. Yes you can have 2 OF's with OPS's below 0.800 if you have significant production in the other positions and/or you make up for it in the pitching staff you assemble. The Giants have won 2 world series in the last few years with pretty pedestrian/crappy offenses because there pitching was so good. Winning is as simple as scoring more runs than you give up. A 1-0 win counts the same as an 11-10 win. The scenario is pretty simple. You are trading player A (let's say Gomez) and getting back a pitcher (player B). You replace Gomez in the lineup with Shafer (Player C) and start the pitcher and drop Peralta, Figaro, or any below replacement level starter (player D). To improve the team you need this: B + C > A + D That's a basic scenario. You just need to improve the pitching more than you take a hit on the loss of Gomez. Things get more complicated when you add more players and deal with prospects, but what I am saying, what TheCrew is saying and others are saying is that you need to continue to improve the OVERALL talent on the team and organization to get to a point where you can compete routinely. By reducing the talent (which is what Melvin has done for quick fixes and going all-in for 2011) we get to the situation where we are right now. We have an organization teetering on a huge talent deficit and nobody wants to trade anything of value because how do we replace "a five-tool player" and still win. You replace a 5-tool player by getting more talent back than you give and you don't mortgage the future for a weak attempt at one playoff appearance. You build for the future adding talent and, yes, you have to trade talent to get talent. Especially when you have a scouting and player development system that doesn't deliver.

I don't care where Peralta pitches or getting back into the race anymore, I care about where Peralta will get the best coaching, that's what matters to me. Unfortunately the way Wily has pitched I don't think the Cards would give us much for him.

See post 301 from LouisEly for a link to her story.

EDIT: Please note that xisxisxis didn't start this thread. I split off some good discussion from the Draft Pick Discussion thread to create a devoted thread for this popular subject. I think the brewers would be better off firing the entire scouting department, buying subscriptions to BA and PG and making a combined draft list from them and sinking all the money saved into signing bonuses. They can't, yes CAN'T, do any worse that way then the current plan.

Devin Williams come on down, you're the next contestant on Your Career Is Over......

The pirates are having an excellent draft....

To be fair the Brewers really don't mess up often. It used to be 2 days, now it's 3 days out of 365 that they mess up. so not very often.....

I'm new to baseball drafts. Throughout draft history, which has a higher bust rate, hitters or pitchers? Brewers Pitchers > Pitchers > Brewers Hitters > Hitters

Is the draft tracker frozen for anyone else? Incredibly slow. Does anyone else see the brewers as "Milwaukee Pewers" on the MLB.com draft selection page? And the Atlanta "Paves". Did someone in New Delhi not read the handbook that tells them Br is not P.....

I personally think this is not going to end well for MLB. I agree. I think they are so far behind the curve on this they think it's a straight line. The public is just not that worked up about steroids in sports anymore. Look at Braun, he's 3rd in All-star voting even given a less than impressive YTD. He's hardly been damaged by the bad press and the fans who make a point of giving him a hard time on the road weren't going to acknowledge him as a great player no matter what. Unfortunately, MLB has an enforcement office run by former law enforcement people. There's no greater CERTAINTY in the world than a law enforcement officer who thinks someone is guilty. Trying to prove the case, in any way, drives them more than any doubt that they have the wrong person. Arod and Braun drive them crazy because they are sure they cheated and got away with it. They will not stop until they can nail both players and any other fish that happens to fall in the net be damned. MLB doesn't get that fans don't really have 10% of the zeal to follow and brandish players with the scarlet "S". So while MLB leaves no legal precedent unturned or any due process shredded they are heading for a major collision come the next collective bargaining agreement because the MLBPAA will strike before letting their union members be convicted of anything based on the accusations of someone who's nutts are in the MLB vice. And if there is a work stoppage it only will reflect poorly on the owners especially if they let the enforcement arm run roughshod over players without any real evidence. With Bud in control I am sure that the dumbest thing that MLB could do will be done. About the only dumber thing he could do is make Wendy in charge of enforcement, then the entire world will see what we suffered through for so many years...

I'm excited just to see if he can put the ball in play in the majors....

If the Brewers would have traded Fielder for Hudson they would have nothing to show for it - Hudson blew out his elbow 9 games into 2012 and hasn't pitched since. What you are ultimately stating is your belief that each of us only has one future path we are on. So as I read your post and type a response while riding into work it is completely irrelevant what I do or the other passengers on my train do we will either get to our destination or not no matter the actions we take. What happens is just a preprogrammed plan for my life. Implicit in that is that I don't have free will, but oddly enough I do seem to think I can make decisions to alter my life. I guess if I walk into work today and resign then that is just me playing out my programmed future. And I guess Hudson's elbow was going to blow out no matter what team he played for since that's obviously his one path....

If I was running the MLBPA I would authorize a strike vote and ask all 30 team reps to conduct a vote. See if MLB wants to risk a work stoppage for their vendetta...

I think the Dodgers would be a main suitor for him, and they'd obviously have no problem paying that salary. Other teams that always wouldn't be deterred by his salary and may have interest are the Angels and Yankees. If the Dodgers don't turn things around in the next month+ look for them to be major buyers at the trade deadline. And they have money to throw away on anybody they want to buy....

Here's a link to the Michael Hunt column alluded to earlier: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/time-for-brewers-to-plan-for-next-year-b9925062z1-210029551.html While not prepared to concede the division to the Cardinals and the Reds with two-thirds of the season to play, general manager Doug Melvin gave a general idea of the direction Monday when he told me, "If we make any more trades this year, it's going to be for two or three years from now instead of now. "I'm not going to be trading any young players to win games." Not picking on anyone in particular, but who cares what Melvin says. He has repeatedly said one thing and goes out and does something else. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that we were told Gennet won't see the majors this year. Now (without an injury) he is up. Repeatedly he does 180 degree turns based on something he has "said", yet anytime he says something we like then it's the mad rush to "look he finally gets it"..... Except he doesn't get it. It's clear from his actions he doesn't get it. So looking at what he said: "If we make any more trades this year" - That doesn't sound like a rebuilding GM. That sounds like a GM whose playing the hand he was dealt. "it's going to be for two or three years from now" - great, so when Weeks, Hart, ARam, Lohse, and Gallardo and likely Gomez are gone. That leaves a core of Braun and Segura (I am leaving Lucroy out because crappy catchers are pretty easy to pick up off the pile). So if we don't trade Hart, we lose him. If we don't trade Aram he is gone after 2014. If we hold onto Gallardo, then we've overpaid for his major decline years. Holding onto the pieces we have, not trading anyone before they expire, and waiting for ZERO impact players in the minors to arrive is no rebuild to me it's a slow death into mediocrity (or worse). If we are sellers at the deadline I will have a lot more optimism for this franchise going forward. Until then, GO CARDS!!!

Where's that been since? As TheCrew pointed out (in the Why are we so bad at developing pitchers? Thread IIRC) the Brewers scouting has been raided heavily since Jack Z left to be GM of the Mariners in the Fall of 2008. While Z may have missed on some early rounders, overall, his people did a much better job of identifying talent later in the draft than Seid and Co. While Jack had problems early on (with the round 2 kryptonite), the drafting since he left has been pretty much a failure up and down the board....

I sometimes think we need a secret decoder ring to understand what Ron is saying. Nah we don't need something that complicated. An Idiot to English Dictionary should do. Down 10-2, and Braun is bringing hustle like that. Awesome to see the face of your franchise putting in a shift like that. I don't think we need to worry about the face, but the arms, legs, elbows, shoulders, kneecaps, feet, hands, and every other part of the teams anatomy is another case.