Boomer5

I don't buy that it''s required anymore that teams need dominant starting pitching to advance in the playoffs. I 2011, the year you hated the Brewers team which got to the NLCS, the Cardinals won the title largely on the backs of their offense and bullpen throughout the playoffs. Their starting pitching often struggled a lot. Last year the Royals also rode a great bullpen, defense, and speed to the World Series in the playoffs. Their starting pitching wasn't anything special. It took Bumgarner having an all-time special run to keep KC from winning a title. Hell, old man Jake Peavy was the Giants game two starter. The 2013 Red Sox finished middle of the pack in pitching. Yea Lester was really good in the playoffs, but outside of him, they got their ring mostly via offense and their bullpen. Lackey did have a nice start or two, but he wasn't exactly a stud ace. Kershaw is a lock HOF stud, but whether it's just been fluke or bad luck, he's yet to be the shut down ace in the playoffs as he's been in the regular season. Maybe this year will be different for him and i hope it is so he doesn't get some choker label. Baseball has changed over the last 5-10 years, especially in how teams use their starters and bullpens. Some teams get into the playoffs with just a solid rotation, but have a great bullpen and are able to advance by getting just enough from their starters to keep the game close for a bevy of sub-3 ERA bullpen arms to enter the game. With off days in the playoffs and managers no longer having to worry as much about over using their best relievers, it's often worse for an offense to get the starter out of the game. FWIW, i'm not saying teams wouldn't prefer having say Kershaw and Greinke as the Dodgers do for playoff series, but it's been shown of late that so long as a team has at least one really productive starter, another who is decent, and a great bullpen, they can get to the World Series. You get in these 5 and 7 game series, especially the 5 game series, things can get so random as to why one team wins and loses. A great bullpen can win a series. Some timely hits, even by unexpected guys. A top notch pen has become near as important or as important to playoff success as good starters are. Agreed. We would all love a 90's Braves rotation but that is unlikely. In many ways, the stud Ace we all grew to crave has gone the way of the 350 carry RB in football. With 13 man staffs and 6 inning starting pitchers, there just isnt room on a payroll for a Smotz/Maddux/Glavine anymore even IF you could find them. The Royals won because they realized its way cheaper, and easier, to develop a best in class bullpen then a best in class rotation. That doesnt mean you give up looking for them, but it does mean you need to modify the dreams of a monster rotation.

Im a lost cause in that I will every buy the drop off had to do exclusively with the thumb, and that it is permanently career altering. That is WAY too convenient. But for the sake of argument, what caused the injury? And can anyone think of a player that had a thumb injury that still allowed him to play but drop 150 OPS? I cant.

I added the bold to the quote above. I wonder if there are any women in the mix. Anyway, I want someone who can implement solid orginazational philosophies as far as hitting and pitching. There's discussion in last night's in-game thread about how the Cubs hitters are able to work counts. This needs to start with the GM, and the managers, coaches and players need to be on board. Also, I'd like to see someone who can rebuild patiently. If the GM is less apt to decimate the minor league system in order to "win now," teardowns should become less necessary. Keeping the minors stocked should be an ongoing process. Of course, a philosophy like this needs support from ownership. Amen! Look at Jack Clark's career. Notice when he took off from a good player to the kind of player we need Santana and Davis to become: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clarkja01.shtml That's a organizational philosophy, not a specific skill set for a player. Its not a coincidence how the Cubs went from a bunch of clowns to a 40 pitch inning team.

It was beautiful watching how they work pitchers into the ground. That is so coachable! Why in the world does a team like the Brewers flat out not get that???

If you paid me $33M you can insult me all you want.

This is second time in a few days the Cubs have worked for 40 pitch innings. This is all the result of Maddon. Something that drives me nuts with the Brewers, who rarely work pitchers. If I has any issues with RR, it was that stupid hack at anything approach. I hope CC learns from this. The thing that is crazy is its not a rare skill, it's a coach able approach.

This has the makings of a pretty good trade. Barrios has a heck of an arm, and the one thing you have give Melvin credit for is he seems to have a good eye for bullpen arms.

Great question. To make a trade, both sides need to see more value on their side. I am assuming that Braun's last two years will be pretty bad, so Id suggest a 820 the next 3 years arent going to be all that valuable to the Brewers given their current state. As it is, if the team were to make a MVP as of July 31, Braun would have been number 3 behind Jungmann and Parra. He is arguably the equal of Lind, who isn't on a $105M contract. A team that has a 2016-2017 window might have a lot more need for a 820 guy than us. I am assuming (theres that word again) that a Tulo package is available for us in return for Braun. We take back a shorter term contract and one elite prospect +

While I don't hold out much hope for Sardinas hitting, the two pitchers look promising and this return was for a year of Yo. Seems pretty good to me? Well it depends. There are a lot of variables. Gallardo might have been worth close to that return at the deadline too, and had they kept Yo and dealt Lohse for a slightly lesser package over the winter, they might have come out about the same return or slightly better overall with a few more wins though not likely enough to prevent the sell off. If they had to do it all over, I'm sure they'd have dealt Lohse and held on to Yo. I think we can all play the hindsight game until eternity. We all agree trading Lohse last year would have been the smarter move. Or better yet, not signing him at all. But as for Yo, the guy was simply not getting it done here. How many 100 pitch, 5 inning performances can you take from your #1? It was time for him to go. Did they get the best possible trade for him? I have no idea, but judging the deal in a vacuum, Im OK with the return vs a year of his meh production.

As was already stated, what will be the main years of the extension? His last elite year was 2012 with no real sign we will ever see that again. 13 and 14 were washouts and 15 is just Good. Teams seem to understand the last few years are good will towards the front end elite years, of which we haven't seen that return. Its not my money, but I think its fair to say had Braun been honest, the Brewers wouldnt have given him the extension.

While I don't hold out much hope for Sardinas hitting, the two pitchers look promising and this return was for a year of Yo. Seems pretty good to me?

While both are true statements, its pretty clear the Brewers wouldn't have offered the extension had they had all the information, and Braun wouldnt have accepted had he known they would be in full rebuild mode now. Back to on the field, in 2012 he was a 987 OPS guy, today he is 823 and playing a position where he isn't really all that good, though that isnt his fault. If he stays at 820 for the better part of the contract, it's not disastrous based on inflation, but it wasn't the point of the extension.

The key word is GOOD. Not great. I would agree. He is a good player. If he was playing Left, I would probably just leave him there and ride out his contract, knowing that while he isn't worth it, he wont kill you. In right, he is just a guy. Thats not entirely fair because he is there because the team made him move there. But as they say, it is what it is. My issue with him - on the field - is that I think he will look a lot like Soriano's big contract in his last 2-3 years as his body continues to break down. Id love to unload him before we have a $20M part time player.

Arcia to SS when he is out of the super two in 2016 and Segura to 2B and move on. He is what he is.

Braun is still a tradeable asset, though Im not sure Oakland in particular would want anything to do with that contract, even if Milwaukee kicked in the $30M.

This is an incredible turn around. I have been as tough on them as anyone, but this is really impressive. You have to figure that the 2016 draft will bring in a must watch caliber player. The Luc trade will bring in a Gomez package. Well done. The future went from a Herb Kohl style team to a young Bucks model.

Im amazed at the lack of true firstbasemen in the game. I just played at the HS level but back then 1B was a sacred position, on par with SS, C, and CF. If you didn't have a elite power/D 1B, you werent going to win a lot of HS games. Im thinking that quite a few OF now who were 1B in HS/college that we can try and find? I have a feeling the Brewers will keep Lind at least through July 2016 because there really isnt any other realistic options to put there now?

Way way down? No Way down? No Down? Maybe One down year is not going to tank value. Greinke sported a 4.17ERA with drastically worse numbers than his prior year, but yet we still coughed up a package like he was a Cy Young. Also important to note before 2010 Greinke really was not that good. So despite only one stellar year he still garnered that mega deal. Lucroy has a good track record and it won't tank his price like he is a .240 1 WAR hitter. Maybe teams don't think he is a 6 WAR hitter, but he still is a solid 3.5 WAR type guy. Probably better to trade him now before he starts turning in another sub par season. Agreed. Its very rare that a catcher of his ability hits the trade market. There will be plenty of offers. Gomez in an off year, brought us Phillips +++ Luc would bring a similar package.

John Manuel suggested we have already moved into the top 5/10 recently. Factor in a top-3 draft pick in 2016, possible trades of Lucroy/Lind/Kh Davis, and breakouts from some of our recent high-risk teenagers (Medeiros, Gatewood, Harrison, Lara), and we could be in the running for best system in baseball in not too long. Agreed. The Luc trade plus the 2016 draft pick will go a long towards giving an elite system. I'm really impressed by the 2015 guys both from trades and the draft.

There's still plenty of trading to go. Luc for sure. Possibly Lind them Braun. The system is top 15 for sure now and will be top 10 by June 2016 with the next draft.

Junk for junk

No. Not even if we picked up all the salary can we bring back a first round pick caliber talent.

And probably about 20 other Brewers. That's the only way he can be traded at this point. Definitely. Half the league is probably on waivers now. Still interesting Mlbtraderumors singled him out for a story though. They know whats up with these kind of waivers, Id assume.

Lohse has been placed on revocable waivers. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/08/kyle-lohse-waivers-brewers.html

Starting pitching is erratic and changes day to day. Teams are running Garzas out there all the time. I'm sure the Brewers could trade Garza right now for Shields and the much discussed Porcello and who would have thought that 4 months ago? They could probably trade him for Fister or Strasburg (sp) now too. I'm not suggesting Garza will bring us Seager, obviously. But with the cost of pitching, only going up, Garza isn't all that pricey and he has been relatively decent since coming off the DL.