Boomer5

That three potential starting pitchers for 2 months of Cueto. The price for Kazmir had me worried this is a buyers market but this makes me feel better about our chances to bring back some nice assets.

The Cueto package will help set the market pricing for starting pitchers. I'm interested to see what comes back as far as a Fiers move expectation. So far the Kazmir deal has me thinking its a buyers market.

I really thought ARam would yield more that Barrios but not a horrible move. I would have waited until the 31st to try and leverage more, but what do I know? Melvin seems to do well finding young bullpen arms, and if can can contribute next year, he opens up a large salary slot, as does shedding ARam's deal.

The Brewers have 5 starters without Lohse, I can't see any scenario where they give him a QO. The best they can hope for is some desperate team takes them off their hands late August in a waiver claim flyer.

The SS who I would assume would be on the market right now have very little value if any at all factoring in their contracts. Andrus? Castro? Alexei Ramirez? All have big contracts. Tulo has value of course but he has close to 9 digits remaining and is injury prone, and who wants a Colorado player? Segura is a legitimate starter, 25 years old, and cheap control until 2018 I believe.

Parra out of the lead off spot with be a huge black hole as well. The team turned around in large part to ARam getting hot, Jungmann becoming an ace, and Parra to lead off. ARam and Parra will be gone and that will be very tough to replace. But this is an optimism thread, so the good news if they are traded is Davis will be Krush again.

Our players are doing their part to pump up their value. I know its one start, but one more Garza start like last night might be enough to get one dumb GM to buy into him. Parra, Lind, Cotts are all at the top of near the top of the availables of their respective roles and I would assume all three wont be with us on Aug 1. Gomez and Luc are potential block busters but I have no idea if they will be moved or not. I am way more bullish on the value of ARam. A middle of the order bat at a premium position who is at a 970 last month? I am also more bullish on Segura. He is a 25 year old starting SS and those are pretty rare. Id just as soon hold on to him and move him to 2nd and pair him with Arcia in 2016 if we couldnt trade him for a key piece.

I would be shocked if Parra is on the roster on Aug 1.

They have at least one elite prospect in RHP Alex Reyes. Would love to somehow get him in our system, though seeing Gomez in a Cardinals uniform would feel particularly dystopian. It would take him and only him for me to be all that interested in helping them win a WS.

You may ultimately be right but I would also suggest that you interpret it that way because that's what you would like the team to do as well since "every season is special". The Brewers MO has been to trade for proven MLB players, in that there is no doubt. However the crux of the debate is what is best for the future to which my simple answer remains, get the best talent possible. Once the "MLB experience" filter is applied the number of trade options becomes vastly reduced as does the potential impact quality of players being discussed. What team is going to give up a young impact pitcher already in the major leagues for the stretch run? Who's going to make their rotation worse during the season? Almost every suggestion you make is for a MLB proven piece, regardless of retread status, or some kind of prospect viewed as under valued like Voglebach, who's work in the field makes Fielder look like a good 1B. So I ask, are there any scenarios where you would take back an impact prospect in AA or A+? I ask because it seems from your posts year after year like you'd rather take a flier on every single marginal player DFA'd than ever trade an established MLB player for a package of prospects. If that's the case, what is ever going to change with this franchise? At some point the Brewers will just magically start developing elite pitching? That's the fundamental issue here, how can the Brewers build a rotation good enough to compete with the best the league has to offer not being able to compete in FA? Swapping out marginal production for similar players or scrap heap crap isn't going to get that done. What franchise would really trade a young, healthy, and productive impact pitcher already in their rotation at the trade deadline? What contender is going to give up established corner IF prospects from their line-up at the deadline? To me that's not a plan, it's not even a rational concept, it's the same obtuse thinking the Brewers have been operating under for the duration of Melvin's tenure. When franchises are just trying to be "the best team they can be in a calendar year" there's no real direction but rather just haphazard hole plugging or player swaps, there's no meaningful or definable end state. Being "competitive for the playoffs" is neither a definable plan or moving the franchise forward towards a chose end state, it's an abstract definition open to interpretation. I have 2 primary goals, to field a rotation with longevity that is among the top 3 in the NL and to win a WS. To achieve those goals I believe the Brewers have to trade for young impact pitching in the minors, have to be willing to cycle aging veterans off the roster even when the team is winning, and build as robust a talent base to drawn from as possible. I don't believe in limiting options, or arbitrarily filtering talent based on what is rather meaningless criteria in the end, such as "MLB experience"... why do I want another Dave Bush? Or Yuni B.? Or Wes Helms? We can develop those kinds of players internally... we have them now... Jason Rogers, Khris Davis, Scooter Gennett, Jimmy Nelson, Taylor Jungmann, and Tyler Cravy. Impact pitching is my primary driving factor, overall talent is my secondary concern, and I don't care what level of baseball they are playing at as long we can control him for than 3 years. That's how the Brewers can obtain and sustain a high level of success. 2 playoff appearances in 10 years isn't success, it's not even mediocre, it's only slightly better than nothing, and the results are completely unworthy of the positional talent which has come through Milwaukee in those 10 years. The fact that so many people think it's an accomplishment worthy of celebration is more a reflection of how bad the Brewers were, rather than unbiased assessment of what they did with the talent they had. In 2004 if someone had told us the Brewers would only make the playoffs twice in the next 10 years and only win 1 playoff series the majority wouldn't have believed or accepted that was the best that group of prospects could do. I personally wouldn't have and in fact I probably would have walked away from brewerfan.net and not ever participated in any of the stuff on the draft and milb forums. That's not winning, that's moving the franchise to mediocrity and then spinning wheels hoping for the best. The Brewer's last 10 years isn't acceptable for any other major sport in WI with the exception of maybe the Bucks, whom the Brewers are in danger of becoming. The Packers, all Badger teams, and Marquette basketball have set a much higher standard than that. We've had a phenomenal 20 years with regular playoff/bowl appearances, multiple Superbowl and Rose Bowl appearances, NCAA tournament and national championship hope, and of course national championships from Badger hockey. For example I don't care about the state teams making the NCAA tournament, I care about getting to the Final Four so likewise I don't care about getting to the playoffs and being 1 and done in baseball or football, I care about regularly appearing in the the championship games and winning titles. There are teams out there like the Rays who have done more with much less from a payroll standpoint... it's not about how much you can spend, it's about how much talent you can acquire. We need to focus less on spending money and more on ultimate value as a franchise or the Brewers will stay right about the same place as they've been, because that's all you can really achieve when you buy talent and max out the payroll in the low $100 mil range. The Brewers will never be able to buy enough wins to compete with the larger markets, a different set of tactics is required to achieve and sustain success. There's a lot going on with this post, and I agree with most of it. The Rays developed pitching. The Brewers are just now doing that, and thats assuming you buy into a 2016 big 4 of Jungmann, Wily, Nelson, and Fiers.

No one is untouchable. I will throw this out as a talking point, not what I am advocating: Is Jungmann the type of player that should be traded because of his sky high value right now? Like selling a stock when it surprisingly spikes to unplanned levels?

What other 3B are on the market? What other RH bats are on the market who are OPSing 970 in the last month? Supply/Demand. Let me clarify, when I say he will net a nice return, Im not saying top 10 or 25. But I do expect a top 100 easily for a guy that is essentially the same value of what MOST ANY rental trade represents despite the retirement.

Its changed on the website within 15 minutes or less.

Many July trades is for a two month rental. What makes ARam any different?

They dont have a great system these days. If we solve their problems, they had better make it worthwhile.

ARam is OPSing 970 the last 28 days. He plays a premium position. The fact that he retires after this year is actually a plus. Rental players arent expected to be retained beyond that year typically anyhow. If they Pirates want him, I expect a nice haul.

We owe the Pirates nothing and giving them a great solution for their corner IF woes would cost plenty, way above absorbing a questionable Alvarez.

I agree on all fronts. I didn't hate his selection either but I saw him as being a "nice" pitcher in the #3 ceiling range. This is a completely different pitcher than we thought we had since we drafted him. He is as good as any RH starting pitcher that we have ever had even factoring in advanced scouting and second time through vs a hot team. This makes me seriously question what we are looking at down on the farm, going back to Thornburg pitching well after being 0-9 down in AAA.

Puig is under control until the end of the 2019 season and if the Dodgers made this silly trade, the Brewers could worry about trading Puig for more value in return then, because he'd only be in his late 20s. Again, though...I don't know why the Dodgers would do this (for the reasons which the original poster points to). Id do that trade yesterday. Probably no one on the board wants to trade Braun more than I do, primarily because I can imagine what they last 3 years of extension will look like. Id take Puig of course, I just dont see him as a great fit for a long term building plan in Milwaukee.

I wouldn't trade a legitimate elite SS prospect unless I got a mammoth return, which would need to include a #1 starter prospect. Pitchers, even aces, dont go 10+ years at a high level, SS do. It would difficult for me to imagine any team giving me enough to let him go.

Braun to LA makes a lot of sense. Id want more control than Puig though. He doesn't seem like a player we would retain down the road.

This is the best use of ARam by far. He should net a nice return.

There would be a riot if they moved Jungmann down now. The guys has been our best starting pitcher since CC and Zack. This start was important since it was against a hot team that was facing him for the second time. I remain skeptical since he was so bleh in the minors but they does appear to be legitimate a number 2 starter in this league, even with a fall from this level.

1.) Id like our 4 young homegrown starters to finish strong. 2.) Trades of Lohse, ARam, KRod, to net at least two B level prospects 3.) Gomez trade to land one A level and one B level prospect 4.) Parra trade to land two B/B- level prospects 5.) Spoil the Cubs and Cardinals season 6.) Top 5 draft pick

Gennett in a potential kill shot vs a lefty plus Braun having no idea what he is doing equals why the Brewers are not a good team. Frustrating because they have some life in them since Parra moved to lead off and Jungmann turned into Tom Seaver jr. I have no idea what to make out of this team top to bottom.