Humans Need Water

Breaking up Clark, Harrison, and Ray will be easy because Ray will need a 3rd year at A+, while the other 2 have shown the consistent improvement to continue to move up. I didn't like Cordell because he was 25 and still couldn't hit. It had nothing to do with his position. Pretty sure you're referring to "statistical improvement", which doesn't have to show "actual improvement". Cordell can't hit. Too funny.

When Sogard was injured July 4, Villar took over from the 5th - 26th hitting 288. He's started 2 games since that stretch. There have been 11 games since then and Perez played 2b for 4 of them hitting 375. The hole doesn't seem as black as people make it out to be. The offense overall will come back around, including increased production at 2b. If there's not a sizable upgrade for cheap there's no point in changing anything

Is this serious? It's been how many months and you both still have no idea why Scooter isn't here anymore. Just mind boggling and even potentially mind bottling. Wasn't hindsight for the both of you? Yeah, because you both thought Scooter was either better than Villar or that Villar would be performing to this level this year. My goodness. No, the argument wasn't, in part, that he couldn't be a run producer. He was gone because Arcia was given the reigns at SS, which shifted Villar to 2b. Villar's 2016 season at the age of 25, with 4yrs of cheap control left too while being a switch hitter and also being versatile defensively, absolutely destroyed anything Scooter's ever done to that point. Scooter was going to the bench immediately. On the bench, he was competing with Perez (literally plays every position, is a better hitter, better on the bases, younger and outperformed him the previous 2yrs) and Aguilar (lot of AAA success, power and smashed it in spring). Combine that with Thames being back in the states for the first time in 3yrs so if he stumbled you'd have Aguilar. (lefty/righty combo too). Kirk was the 4th OF because he could play all 3 spots well and was a lefty to boot. Scooter is a 2b and a last resort between LF/RF/3b (hence a combined 20 games played there for the 4th worst team - which is the only reason he's playing there). So yeah, when factoring in all that in March/April 2017 when the decision was made, it absolutely made all the sense in the world to move on from Scooter. And Stearns tried to trade him and zero GMs bit on him not even offering one garbage prospect. ZERO. And while the GMs knew he wasn't going to make the team, based on the aforementioned above, they knew he'd be claimed. Yet not one GM still stepped up to offer garbage to make sure Scooter didn't get DFA'd where they'd most likely not have a chance to claim him. Sogard essentially took Kirk's role and has been very good overall for a couple months (Sogard/Perez have combined to play 2 full months at 2b putting up excellent numbers too). The reality of this is Scooter is playing out of his @ss this year so I'm sure you'll both be silent when he crashes back to reality moving forward. Finally, provide evidence that Scooter would be replicating his exact numbers if he was still here (I look forward to your usage of his 2014-2016 stats as a full time player to indicate the trend of his 2017 performance). If Perez is starting at 2b right now full time putting up his typical numbers then it would be better than having the 2015/2016 versions of Scooter. That said - where's the problem with that scenario since you both have thought highly of Scooter for years?

Nobody knew Molitor was a future Hall of Famer in 1977. Nobody. The way the Brewers franchise works today, Molitor would have likely not been seen in Milwaukee until 81 or 82. So Stearns would have drafted Molitor with the 3rd overall pick in 77 then had him spend full seasons in A, A+, AA, AAA from 78-81 then had him up in Milwaukee in 81 or 82? Please provide one factual example of Stearns acting in this manner. On the other hand I'll provide factual examples of how he's between aggressive and super aggressive with moving prospects. 5yrs+ young for level - Arcia, Hader 4yrs+ young for level - Woodruff (MLB otherwise 2yrs+), Dubon (Santana and Davies both land here too) 3yrs+ young for level - Brinson, Ortiz, Phillips, Peralta, Feliciano, Derby 2yrs+ young for level - Burnes, Lutz, Clark, Diplan, Nottingham, Monte, Herrera, Bickford (next year in AA) 1.5yr+ young for level - Diaz, Kodi, Gatewood, Supak, Yamamoto (Hiura is 1.2) I'm sure there are others but those are just the Top 30 and I didn't even include the bottom few players

Arcia had 4 hits in his previous 22 AB heading into Tampa. If that doesn't scream HOT I don't know what does. Since June 1 he's been great like others have said and showed using his slash line. But how about since July 6 (one calendar month)? Since then he's slashing 253/313/709. Now lets rewind to July 6 again but remove the Tampa series this weekend making it a 23 game stretch until last Fri - he was slashing 222/292/564. If there's one word I'd use to describe Arcia more recently it sure as hell wouldn't be HOT. Clearing the pitcher's spot in the order is massively beneficial and in the AL if you have a 9 hitter that is a second leadoff then even better. He's been in the 8 hole the entire year; he's still developing as a hitter in his first full season and literally just turned 23. We're not talking about the next Corey Seager here. Let him sit in the 8 hole and continue to develop overall, including his consistency. Should Counsell move everybody around in the order when they're on fire? The entire offense has been inconsistent and unlucky the past 3-4 weeks. The top of the order has had really good AB they're just not getting on base. But neither has Arcia - as proven above.

You're all talking about a guy who, in less than 2yrs, made the MLB team competitive for a division title while turning the farm from a bottom feeder to a top 5 (prior to Arcia/Hader being up) without making one irrational, illogical, emotional move. What you're discussing day in and day out on here is typically the opposite of that. This board called Guerra the ace in March, wanted Santana out of the lineup at the end of April, Arcia in AAA in May, Davies out of the rotation in June, Garza never in the rotation to begin with then wanted a rotation arm at the deadline because we desperately needed one (the rotation has been this team's strength for several weeks now). The pen has always been the biggest issue and he brought up Hader then added Swarzak and Jeffress at the deadline. He made this team better. Please proceed....

Outside of Scottsdale Stadium are there any other stadiums you can walk to hotels, restaurants, bars, shopping, etc? Even Talking Stick to Salt River would be an awful walk. Maybe Sloan (east side of park)? You're driving everywhere unless you're a Giants fan basically

All of the locals I have talked to here will not go near Maryvale at night. During the day there are only a small amount of areas in the Phoenix area that I would not go around. There are parts of downtown Phoenix I will not go near during the day or night. I forget what the locals call the Maryvale hospital but it is not a nice nickname for that hospital basically nearly all of the gun shot, stabbings, and other violent crime victims go to that hospital. In general the area around Maryvale is rather nice which is basically the definition of the greater Phoenix area. There are parts of Surprise that are not that good you can go from million dollar homes in anywhere in the greater Phoenix area and then run into am I in a third world country? Maryvale is not as bad as Detroit or Wilmington Delaware but it can be rather bad late at night. There is a reason why the Brewers don't play that many games in the evening at Maryvale. Does playing night games at home matter? If the Brewers don't play any because the neighborhood sucks then what's the reason the Giants only played 2 night games in downtown Scottsdale this past March? The Rockies and Dbacks combined to play 1 night game at Salt River and that's a great location with Talking Stick and Top Golf across the freeway. The Cubs played 2 at Sloan. Who cares what happens at night in Maryvale - nothing ever happens during the morning/afternoon when games are played. Has anyone ever heard of anything happening....serious question....because I've never seen nor heard anything.

Suter I think could be really effective as a pen arm (multi-inning/spot start) and thought that after his pen experience last year. While he's been really good overall his past 6 starts I don't see him as a full time rotation arm. He moves quick and has good control of 3 pitches he'll throw at any time but I think he will get hit if stays in that role full time. Nelson, Chase, Davies, Hader, Woodruff all have better stuff and higher ceilings as well and that doesn't even include Garza (although I think he's definitely traded in the off-season after his option is picked up). I could also see Chase traded in the off-season if he comes back pitching like he did pre-injury, selling high on him. So that could potentially open a spot for Suter too. But then you'll need to open spots for Ortiz/Burnes by the end of 2018 too. I think Suter is stuck in a bad situation for landing a rotation spot within this org but I'd absolutely keep him in a multi-inning/spot start role

I'm 36 and have been to spring training 6 of the past 7yrs and 8-9x overall since I turned 21. While the greater area surrounding the stadium isn't sexy or ideal I've never heard there being any violence or other negative issues that detract folks from attending. While it's not as visually appealing as Scottsdale and other areas I've never felt uncomfortable driving through the area. The parking isn't a beast in or out and the walk isn't long either. The stadium itself is a great place to watch a game. It's FAR from a dumpster. It's usually very clean and easy to navigate. Every seat gives a great view, easy concourse to walk while also being able to keep an eye on the game (which is great if you have young kids that requires you to get up and move around). The accessibility to players in the stadium is much better than most other stadiums in AZ. It costs $5 to park. For $23, with fees, I can sit 16th row directly behind home plate in the shade. What's the price increase of that ticket with a new stadium in an upscale suburb? The accessibility to the minor leaguers is by far and away the best of any team in AZ. Standing 10 feet away from 6 different pitchers throwing pen sessions is outstanding. Leaning against the dugout fence, or behind home plate, watching these guys practice or play a game is outstanding. Getting autographs, pictures or simply saying hi to the players and coaches is outstanding. There isn't one team that competes in this regard. I get the appeal of upgraded facilities because everyone likes luxury but but what's the advantage of watching a SPRING TRAINING game at Salt River or Sloan vs Maryvale? I'll worry about the 81 games that matter in an excellent stadium (Miller Park) vs 15 spring training games that don't matter. There are MLB stadiums in worse neighborhoods than Maryvale (ie White Sox). At the end of the day, I'm going to spring training regardless of where the Brewers are situated. Well, as long as they're in AZ that is as we always take a day off from a Brewers game and take in a game at another stadium (we've seen them all now and we'll take the overall experience at Maryvale over them all) and the farthest commute is usually around an hour from Scottsdale.

No, because......as I said....... since he's come to Milwaukee he's only averaged about five innings per start in the minors. If guys are seeing him three times in five innings then yes he is getting rocked. But that's not what I was getting at. As I said he tends to throw a lot of pitches and doesn't last long into games as a starter.....hence my questioning as to guys actually seeing him three times. I'm sorry that I disagree with you on his ability to be a starter but I just don't see it at this point. You claim I made a "absolutely ridiculous comment" and then you say this? Rich. It's amazing how many times I can say something and yet you still see something else. If you honestly think I was willing to "trade half our farm" for Sonny Gray then I suggest you reread that thread and figure out exactly what it is I was willing to give up for him because I made it pretty darn clear. I'll give you a hint......I can pretty much guarantee it wasn't "half the farm". Nice try though. Where's the evidence for this when factoring in all variables? And why are we only looking at him after we acquired him and not before when he was in A+ and AA with Houston? Further, why does anyone factor in anything CS related for pitchers that aren't fastball/change dominant (not just speaking of Hader but Woodruff pounds the zone and his BB9 was 4.5 this year in AAA)? Go look at Hader's game logs. The vast majority of the time if he's allowed to throw near 100 pitches, like Counsell allows for unless you're Garza, then he's definitely throwing 6-7 innings on average per start from 2014-2016....prior to AAA. Sure there's starts mixed in where he'd only go 4-5 still but that's not where he'd typically end up. These guys are typically on pitch limits, not innings limits. So if he throws 5 innings in 83 pitches how can you say he averages 5 innings per start without factoring in he'd actually be back out there throwing another inning before being removed at the MLB level? Compare that to the game logs of Nelson this year and you won't see much difference regarding the number of innings one would typically throw if given 100 pitches or so. "...two years ago I would have given him close to zero shot, now that’s probably up to 40 to 50 percent..." - Keith Law (early 2017) referring to him as a starter and he's always been more bullish on Hader than most scouts/analysts. He won't rank anybody in his Top 100 if he thinks they're a pen arm and Hader was 71. Coming into this year many more scouts believed Hader sticks in the rotation than the pen partly because of his time in A+, AA spanning parts of 2014-2016 his BB9 averages out around 3.0 while being very young for age level and performing very well. I also don't think people should read too much into his control/BB9 this year with the Brewers given he's in a new role that he's never 100% been in before. He had a 4 inning stretch recently (spanning 4 appearances) where he didn't give up a walk, which was followed by 1BB in 3ip vs Cubs. It's evident he's been pitching much better as the season progresses and he gets more comfortable in this role. All that said, Hader should absolutely be given every chance in the rotation and if it doesn't work out then you know he'll be a dominant pen arm, hopefully being used in the mold of Miller. Next year you can easily have a rotation of Nelson, Chase, Hader, Woodruff, Davies. Stearns will absolutely target pen arms in the off season to revamp that pen making it lock down, which I hope includes resigning Swarzak. And there is no way guys like Suter, Guerra, Jungmann, etc should be in competition with the likes of Hader and Woodruff for rotation spots. The ceilings aren't in the same atmosphere.

Keston Hiura is going to fly through 3 levels next year and be ready for 2019? I love Hiura and think he can move fast, but penciling him in is jumping the gun. He is mashing A ball pitching as a college draftee. His numbers are almost meaningless. I wouldn't go that far regarding his numbers being meaningless given the vast majority on here were in love with Erceg during his time in Appleton. I was in the camp of having him spend the first 4wks this year in Appleton because outside of his first 4 games or so there his numbers weren't overly impressive. Whereas Keston is destroying the ball. This development team likes challenging these prospects so I can see Hiura flying through the system next year and being ready to compete for a spot in spring of 2019. Realistically, like you, I don't think that happens. I think a more realistic approach is mid-2019 at earliest as that gives him a split of A+/AA next year and starting in AAA in 2019 - more along the lines of Ian Happ. Just depends on his performance - he still needs to get in the field too so that will be a factor. Worst case he's up to start 2020.

Good question. My stance hasn't changed; that being all we need is 1-2 solid pen arms. Which is what they did with Swarzak and Jeffress. I never understood the desperate need for a rotation arm and we don't desperately need position players. But we desperately needed a couple pen arms. I'm a big fan of Cordell but it is what it is. Best case he's a 4th OF on the Brewers so he was moveable. And if we resign Swarzak for 2-3yrs then that trade becomes an excellent one. The biggest moves in the off season will be to shore up the pen because now we'll be division contenders moving forward whereas coming into the season it wasn't about building a great pen to compete. Will be interesting to see if they make a move this month to add anybody. I wouldn't give up any prospects for anything unless they're Tayler Scott types.

Wrong! Scooter's 2016 OPS was .728. No one, and I mean NO ONE could have seen the kind of numbers he's putting up this year. Hindsight is 20/20 though, I guess. You forget I'm still around? Maybe .900 is impressing even me but I've always thought Gennett was a very solid hitter. Heck he posted an .834 OPS as a 23 year old rookie in 2013 in a not so tiny sample of 230 PA. Compare that with the struggles of their highly rated guys now. Can we discuss Scooter hitting out of his @ass in 2013 compared to his 2012 AA and 2013 AAA? His 2014-2016 is also evidence he hit out of his @ss in his first MLB stint. Additionally, were the 2013 Brewers winning the division when Scooter came up or did he not have any added pressure (won 74 games that year - 4th in division)? Why don't you want to compare a 22yr old Arcia to a 23yr old Scooter? Since May 18 Arcia has 254 PA compared to Scooter's 230 and he's slashing 312/354/776 while playing MUCH better defense at THE premium defensive position. I'm excited to compare Brinson and Phillips at 25-26yrs old to Scooter at 25-26 where he posted 675 and 728 OPS.

First part - why? Second part - why are those the only two options that make sense?

Not sure I'd call a 10M option affordable. Brewers can certainly take that on but that's still a lot for a declining 36yr old. And if they choose not to pick up that option then they owe a 5M buy out. Villar will make much less, has 3yrs of control left and rebounding to a solid season will give a solid return in a trade. Plus we still have Perez to play 2b; it's nuts that he hasn't seen much more time at that position.

Yeah, he's painful on TV, must get nervous or something. Augustine sounds like he was either grabbed off the set of Fargo or a bar stool in Cudahy. Is there a difference?!?

Sure, that's fine but that is not really the argument that we were originally having. Maybe I'd prefer Kinsler for August through October of 2017 (and Villar would come #2 of those 4, as bad as he's been) but as a realistic fan that knows the playoff chances are slim, I'd still prefer to not give something up to get Kinsler given this year's playoff run is unlikely and he's only getting older next year. Agree with this. If Stearns wants to give up the Tayler Scott's of the world then go for it. But I entered this discussion when it turned the corner for dropping Villar off this team, which is absurd given his age, ability, control and us not having a 2b for 2018 then as Perez would be the only one on the roster heading into next year. Also, Kinsler has like 10yrs more experience than Villar so you can make that same argument even if Villar was repeating his 2016.

The replay of Garza striking out Wong confirmed Baseball Bob hasn't seen every pitch because it clearly showed his head turned to the side talking to the person next to him. He missed the entire pitch #gameover

Woodruff is head and shoulders better than Jungmann, is 3yrs younger, MLB ready and part of the future. If Guerra's spot is sitting open until Chase gets back then it should only be Woodruff getting those starts. None of this toying around stuff if he doesn't dominate his first start. No point in even having him out there if you don't give him the opportunity to learn and grow from his first career MLB start, which is surely to provide plenty of anxiousness and butterflies.

Richard, Cahill, Chacin haven't been full time starters the past 3yrs or so while also consistently battling injuries. Garza's been a starter his entire career and, when healthy, has always put up solid numbers just like he's doing this year. The past 2yrs he's been hit with one injury after another. His 2015 was terrible. Last year he had a 3.41 ERA over 16 of his 19 starts and this year he's been rock solid thus far. Those other guys don't compare to Garza at all. There's a 0% chance his option isn't picked up. Whether he's still a Brewer next year remains to be seen but he'll be making 5M for someone pitching every 5th day because that production at that price is a very good contract. This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million. Garza's not in the plans for next year and the market for him just isn't there. They dumped Scooter for Villar because Villar's 2016 absolutely destroyed anything Scooter has ever done in his baseball career combined with Arcia taking over SS. Saving 2M was a byproduct. There's zero evidence the market isn't there for Garza. ZERO. Nobody said Garza is 100% going to be in our rotation next year - maybe some have said they think he's going to still be here but not definitively state he will. People are saying his option will be picked up, because at 5M it absolutely will be.

I don't need to formally meet someone in person to have an idea of how they operate. Maybe it's because of my career and reading people rather well without having to actually meet them. Everybody has "negative" thoughts, at a minimum, about people they've never formally met before. I have no issue with this dude's love of baseball and attending every game that spans my entire life outside of 3 months. Don't care if he's potentially afraid of flying, or simply has no interest in traveling or whether he's quirky or not. This guy isn't socially awkward; he's plenty comfortable in social settings. Watch the video interview - his tone, nonverbal comm. Look at the still photos - his pose, facial expressions. He's not afraid to mingle publicly; he just chooses to live a simple life and not spend money outside of his Brewers tix. I have no issues with any of these things. Whatever makes him happy; those are his life choices. I have issues with him attempting to portray himself in a certain light. It's clear as day reading the article and watching the interview that things don't line up - he absolutely is embellishing his stories and even lying in certain parts (someone above already called him out for wearing a Brewers jacket at the game last night when he said he doesn't own one piece of apparel and always wears slacks/shirt-polo - are we to believe that the day this article came out he was given the gift of a Brewers jacket?). Never missing one pitch? Hard BS on that one. Won't say he's the biggest fan because if you even attend one game you're a fan but then is pissed when Braun doesn't call him. Piggybacking off that, he calls BS on the randomness of the 100 season ticket holders called because he got wind that NM's CEO and one of the two owners of Kelly's Bleachers got a call AND NOT HIM. (side note: there have been articles and interviews from season ticket holders like him discussing the conversation they had with Braun. just because NM and Kelly's Bleachers got calls doesn't mean they were part of the 100 season ticket holder calls - could have been separate.) And if he's not truthful about something so trivial as those examples, or contradicting his overall sentiment about not wanting to be labeled as the biggest fan and on par with all other fans, then what other nonsense is in that story? I still find it extremely odd that he's on a first name basis with the owner and his wife, recalling a specific story referring to her as Debbie while them also referring to him as Baseball Bob, and inviting him to fly on their private jet to that specific party yet they're not interviewed for this story? The author also gave a horrendous interview and clearly left an absurd amount of stones unturned. The lack of details is astounding.

How exactly can he prove it without being given the rotation spot? His stuff, control, mentality, success the past 2yrs deem him more then worthy of a rotation spot. He's going to be given a spot. That means he's being given an opportunity to succeed. Whether he keeps it for years down the road is up to him but he's going to be given a spot.

Maybe, maybe not. San Diego cornered the market on low level FA last year and got 3 guys all for $1.75 million, Richard, Cahill and Chacin. For a good team Garza would be a depth guy and come to camp as a 6th or 7th starter. They won't pay $5 million for a depth piece. A rebuilding team like the White Sox could take a flier and hope to recoup some value though they might prefer to sign some guys to minor league deals or for under $3 million. The Brewers will likely have Nelson, Davies, Anderson as the big 3. They need room for their guys knocking on the door in their system. I don't think they'll pick up his option. Richard, Cahill, Chacin haven't been full time starters the past 3yrs or so while also consistently battling injuries. Garza's been a starter his entire career and, when healthy, has always put up solid numbers just like he's doing this year. The past 2yrs he's been hit with one injury after another. His 2015 was terrible. Last year he had a 3.41 ERA over 16 of his 19 starts and this year he's been rock solid thus far. Those other guys don't compare to Garza at all. There's a 0% chance his option isn't picked up. Whether he's still a Brewer next year remains to be seen but he'll be making 5M for someone pitching every 5th day because that production at that price is a very good contract.

Give the top prospects the opportunity to produce. Santana, Arcia are already up showing a ton of promise and the likes of Brinson, Phillips, Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz, Burnes, Dubon need to also be given that opportunity. Will need to trade MLB players as well to help round out the holes at the MLB level while also adding prospects in the pipeline (Chase, Guerra, Garza, Villar, Perez, Broxton and eventually Thames or Aguilar and a catcher). As this wave of top prospects grows and performs you figure out who to keep/extend and who to trade to add prospects to the system (you do that when other top prospects are ready - Hiura, Ray, Clark, Diaz, Erceg, Bickford, Peralta). Drafting well will be a part of this too and he'll no doubt use FA to a certain extent where it makes sense. Once you get to the point you're very competitive at the MLB level then you can use top prospects as trade bait to nail down that final piece or two needed for that deep playoff run. Like Theo said in July - the best farm system you have is your MLB team. Those are the guys that bring the big returns to build your future MLB team. But you can't trade those MLB players if you don't give the prospects the opportunity build value at that level.