OldHeidelberg

Yeah Michigan undefeated going into Madison against a decent Badger team coming off two tough losses, in any sport that has upset written all over it. I wasn't very optimistic this morning though. In some ways I think Happ's graduation will be good for the team, too many possessions run through him and he is a liability down the stretch in close games with his free throw shooting. He is the sort of player who works better with another star, not the go to guy he is the last couple of years.

People using ear buds while shopping. I am at Publix today, walking in and some guy has himself between the entrance doors and he is wiping down his cart with those sanitary things, no one can get around him but he has no clue.Then I follow him to him the fruit section and he proceeds to sort through the 2 for 1 pineapple while 3 of us stood waiting, he could have stepped aside to give us room and continued his search for the perfect pineapple but the guy was oblivious to what was around him, completely tuning out the rest of the world. Just like texting and talking on cells this is the decline of western civilization, too many people living in their own worlds and not paying attention to what is going on around them.

Sure but it took MM 3 games to figure out that he had to let him run to get the most out of him. He had his moments, notably the Pittsburgh and Cleveland games, I think a good coach may have adjusted to his game better. But Hundley was not good.

We sure as hell swung from one extreme to the next now, didn't we? I mean...both great HOF QB's, but you're exactly right. I don't think he's worried about his stats(could be wrong), but he's so adverse to turnovers that he just doesn't throw those 50/50 balls. With Graham, Scantling, St. Brown....he can afford to take a few more chances. There's a pretty big chasm between Favre and Rodgers. I don't think stats and records really even matter much to people anymore other than for analysis like in baseball. The steroid era in baseball and the fantasy football driven rules in the NFL have largely ended the days when those things were a big deal. 20 years ago the media would have made a lot bigger deal out of Yellich's late season run at the triple crown. Rodgers place in history will be measured by his rings, if he is prioritizing his stats over winning he isn't nearly as smart as people think he is. I think this perception among Packer fans is largely due to the comparison to his predecessor. I wouldn't hate it if the Packers took a QB with Saints pick if someone they really liked dropped that far. You get the 5th year option with a first rounder and with Rodgers questionable durability there is a good argument for having a legit starter as a backup. Of course you have to have a good team around them for it to matter, after seeing the team with Rodgers this year I am not so sure 2017 was as much on Hundley as we thought.

It's not "for some reason". It's for very obvious reasons. He looked awful in the second half last year and has actually been awful for most of his professional career. There's no reason to assume his first half is indicative of the real Aguilar. And a guy with his training habits and conditioning could be a strong early decline candidate. 29 is already past prime age for the average player. By my eye test late in the year and in the postseason he was pretty awful, I hated to see him come up in key spots with guys on base. But I just checked before posting and see he had an .821 OPS with a dinger and 3 doubles in the Dodger series, better than at least a couple of other notable Brewers, sort of like his whole second half he didn't fall off a cliff as we have seen other players who have had a couple of big months. I agree with others he needs to keep himself in better condition. Unless they already know Nelson is a long shot I don't see how we don't move Anderson or Davies if we make a Miley type move, Anderson and his salary seems like the easy top choice there. Having 7-8 starters has served us well the last couple of years but those 2 need to be starters and are blocking our young guys who I think we need to develop. We can wait to see how thing shake out before trading one but Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta should all be given a shot in ST. I do agree we need the lefty though.

He was a victim of some poor personel decisions going back to the Woodson release but I do feel an overhaul was in order. I was surprised all the D coaches weren't fired with Capers last year.

Thanks, I do remember that now. Please don't take offense to my lack of recollection previously, that's just my seeming increasingly short memory these days. I think the media struggles to understand what Green Bay is as an organization, and fails to understand the things they need to do to be successful that other organizations in the NFL do not. If there's criticism about the Titletown District, is there also retroactive criticism about the Lambeau Field Atrium levelled at Bob Harlan? Of course not, because it's one of the better financial decisions the team has made. When the district is done, I think the results will be looked at similarly. That said, isn't that what the President of the team should be focusing the bulk of his time on? If anything, doesn't this seem like a 'want it both ways' arguement? Most don't want Murphy involved in stuff like hiring the coach, but then stuff like this says that he should be focusing more of his time on the football aspect of the organization, rather than the financial side.... isn't that incredibly contradictory? I guess I worry the heavy focus on the business side of things under Murphy is or could impact football decisions. I think the reason I brought this up previously was in the discussion of Rodgers contract extension and what he means to the team and in particular the success of the TD, they need fan interest at a high level. Of course a big part of his job is the business stuff, the stuff they are doing since he took over may be what they tasked him with when hired. But the success of the team on the field has to be his #1 priority since he is the ultimately the guy who has to make the big changes. He may have took his eye off the ball. The cracks were showing in the 2016 NFCC. I don't know anyone who didn't think Capers had to go after another playoff defensive collapse and the flaws in TT's draft and develop philosophy had been getting more exposed every season. Murphy needed to look past the home playoff game and NFCC appearance, all this stuff wasn't taking place at the beginning of a new regime. Tough decisions are made all the time in sports when winning teams repeatedly fall short of a title. Of course the Packers are built to be slow to change and believing in their system has resulted in 20+ years of success. I think it was late but the changes are being made, the culture thing brought up in the SI article is still a concern but who knows how accurate it is. I could be totally wrong about the connection between football success and TD success. It's really hard to say after so much time since the last period of extended losing, a lot has changed since then. I don't really care about the bells and whistles, I just want them to win on Sundays and on into February, more restrooms is probably #1 on my list for Lambeau. So viewing things through that lens makes me more cynical about some of this stuff. Honestly it doesn't really matter if the TD is a financial flop if fans and the community get enjoyment out of it.

HaHa and Randall are good players in my opinion and dumping them left us very thin and that lack of depth contributed to the defensive collapse this year. I don't know how bad a cancer they were, like I say I blamed MM for being thin skinned but that article seems to indicate it was more the org. Maybe we would have been even worse with them on the team this year but I find that hard to believe. I thought I saw Randall even stood up for MM after his firing.

I am very eager for you to elaborate on what you mean by this? I think there is too much emphasis on profits and not enough focus on winning. I brought this up a few months ago, I think you disagreed, so won't go into the stadium expansion and Titetown District again but there was an article on si.com a few weeks ago that I didn't think reflected too well on the organization. I had thought dumping Randall and Ha Ha were on MM but apparently the team does not like "loud" players and the debacle with Marteles Bennet was brought up as well. The front office was described as only caring about the brand and the VP's and doesn't care about the players. Certainly the desire to draft "Packer People" has been brought up a lot, that needs to change IMO, can't take quality players off the board because they don't fit some corporate culture. Someone in the other thread brought up that TT would have never drafted Alexander so maybe it has changed some now. I found the article for anyone who hasn't seen it, long but interesting read: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson

I haven't even been keeping up on coaching changes since the Packers hired LaFleur but I think it says a lot that MM got passed up for the fired Miami coach. Sort of like Sherman, overseeing the decline of a team with a HOF QB under center doesn't look too good on a resume no matter what you did before. His game management was always horrible in my opinion. I just don't think he is sharp enough to call the plays and keep the rest of the game in order. I sure won't miss those automatic timeouts before the half when the other team has the ball. There are times to do it but teams started to just fake like they want to run out the clock on 1st down, wait for MM to call the timeout, then run play action on 2nd and get an easy first and try for the late score. He fell for it every time. I am thankful for the nice run he gave us but the 10 year rule should have been in effect. I think there are deeper problems with the front office culture to address but looking forward to fresh start with a new coach. I like the hire, but hopefully keeping Pettine around is his idea not something he had to agree to.

Just to be clear and I may be wrong but I think the rule is "immediate and clear recovery" which I take as meaning it has to result from continuing action. Like as soon as he dropped it a bunch of nearby players dive for it even if the whistle is blowing. I don't think they could run over to where that ball was with the official waving incomplete and pick it up. In this case the ball was punched so far away from the play with no players around I don't think anyone could have went over and picked it up and had it called a recovery.

The ruling makes no sense. How is it not any different then when a player fumbles the ball out of bounds? If it was ruled a complete catch on replay it should have been the offense's ball where the fumble occurred. To say that a confirmed catch is not a catch because no one picked the ball up is just stupid. Of course no one picked the ball up, the refs ruled it an incomplete pass and the ball rolled away from the players and to an official. It was a dead ball. The fact that someone actually thought up this situation shows how thorough the rules people are. But the ruling they came up with shows just how stupid they are. The only thing I can think of is they don't think it is fair to have catch ruled incomplete, and the ref blows the whistle so play stops, and then reverse it meaning the defense never got chance to recover a fumble so the offense benefits by a bad ruling by the ref. But if a player does recover it then they know what would have happened if the ref did rule it a fumble so they can change the call. In your example of the ball going out of bounds the refs do know the end result so they could call it a catch and fumble and place the ball where it went out of bounds. It's confusing as hell like the entire catch rule but I guess I can see the logic. I have never liked replay anyway, plenty of champions were crowned without it.

HaHaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA. Bears, HaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAH Yeah I know we sucked this year but it's not like their fans don't celebrate our playoff meltdowns. Just another reminder that nobody is special( I am looking at you Vike fans), there are 5 or 6 excruciating losses in the postseason most seasons. Elimination games are tough.

Depth is certainly a need, but it's going to be tough to determine how deep this draft actually is until the full list of players who declare early is available. With all the wheeling and dealing Gute did last year, though, I'd actually be a little surprised if they actually end up picking someone at #12. Another thing to keep note of - that #12 pick would be very valuable in a trade for a current NFL player. If, say, a rebuilding team makes a top pass rusher available (read, for instance, Von Miller or Chandler Jones), that would be a solid use of that pick as well. A quick google search show there is speculation about Denver moving Miller. He is 2 years older than Mack but has $17 million salaries for next 3 years, I think the 12 pick would be worth it. Not such a high risk like all the guaranteed money Mack got.

From an si.com article that I am sure most here saw a few weeks ago I don't think the "Packer people" thing was on TT. The org doesn't like "loud" players and Randall and HaHa were booted post TT, I thought it was MM who was thin skinned but apparently not. They need to get past that, not only does it prevent you from obtaining some talented payers but it creates a double standard when Rodgers can say what he wants but other players can't. I remember prior to the 2011 draft TT was very high on JJ Watt, but we were at 32 and were coming off of a SB with a lot of depth and TT was never going to do what it took to move up that much. He had everyone thinking he was a guru. Hindsight of course but man how many SB's do we win with Watt? My point being if we think a guy like Allen is a HOF talent we need to go get him. We can fill other holes in FA.

Well the extra first rounder would seem to make a trade up to 5 possible but it gets exponentially more expensive to get higher than that and Allen seems to be top 3 on a lot of the early mocks. TT would have never done it, we will see what Gutes does. They are desperate for a blue chip pass rusher and there is usually one of the top 3 teams looking to trade down for a haul of picks. Should be one of the most interesting draft nights for us in a while.

Sounds like a guy who could move to the NFL, I would like a smart manager rather than a guru. Let the coordinators do their jobs so he can focus on managing the players and the games. I don't want our next coach to call plays, I think that is what got MM in trouble. I think college coaches that don't do well in the NFL are often system guys like Chip Kelly but I haven't really looked it up so I could be wrong. Considering all the options like McDaniels who I don't want I could certainly get on board with Fitzgerald, he would be my first choice of the guys mentioned.

So if both the Vikings and Eagles win Sunday the difference in who makes the playoffs was that ridiculous roughing penalty on Clay back in week 2. I know you can always pick out some pivotal bad calls during the season but that was a poorly called ruling on some new NFL crackdown that was apparently quietly done away with shortly after. Seems fitting it has some impact on how the season plays out.

Rodgers shoulder is probably hurting but I think(hope) that it is like many other recoveries from major injury and just needs time to get back to 100%. He seemed healthy last week and they certainly weren't shy about shutting him down last year, I doubt he is at much risk of re-injury. I see he is on the injury report(knee/groin) though, interestingly enough practically every player we have of value is either on the report or IR. The oline has been a surprising negative this year, a lot of the 3rd down sacks are predictable and are often not from holding the ball too long, just free blitzers and stunts getting on Rodgers before he even gets to his second read. Like a lot of things in the later MM years, it seems teams have figured us out and we don't adjust very well.

While I agree healthy starters shouldn't sit out regular season games I will say I wouldn't mind seeing Kizer get some work, it would help with off season planning to see if he has developed into a reliable backup. We just got burned assuming Hundley could play. If Philbin announced before the game that Kizer would play the second half I don't see that as tanking and from a fan perspective might make the game a little more interesting.

When we fumbled the kickoff and went down 35-20 I was like fine at least we will get a higher pick. But in the end on 4th and goal and when the Jets were in TD range I was as nervous as ever and really wanted the win. We only get one more game until the off season, I guess I always want them to win even if there is nothing to gain. In this case at least we saw Rodgers use his wheels and lead them to a win, his struggles with accuracy has actually been the worst part of the season as that could have long term negative affects on the teams chances. But he played well and showed why he is still a huge weapon. We haven't been here that much recently but I would bet all poor teams fans have some talk about how the team should tank but there were plenty of Packer fans there yesterday who paid for tickets to see Rodgers play and got their money's worth. I just don't think teams can treat games like preseason games and the NFL rightfully discourages it, other then maybe sitting Rodgers and Adams you have to play most guys anyway and I am sure they want to play. The Saints could choke in the first round and gain us a few spots with their pick, now that's something I can root for.

Yep ... that Vikings offense, other than Cook missing a few games because of hamstring issues, has been intact injury-wise as well. Just goes to show how the flavor of the month in coaching can change quickly. The Vikings have been nearly as disappointing as the Packers, if not more so. Considering the expectations of their fans I would say they are even more disappointing than the Pack. Their Oline has been terrible for years and it has been an Achilles heal again this year. A lot went their way last year not the least of which was the collapse of the Pack after the Rodgers injury. I said in the other thread a Vikings collapse was the only realistic way for the Packers to get in the playoffs. That is something I can get behind, hate the Vikes and that would really upset their fans. I don't believe it will happen, I think the Packers lose at least one more, but a win over the Bears and a Vikings loss to the Dolphins would sure put us back in the race.

Nice to have a fun win again. I don't think Philbin has much of a shot, they will want a fresh coaching staff not just an MM disciple who will likely retain a lot of the guys they have. Since we actually won a game and the NFC is so mediocre I checked what it would still take for us to sneak in the playoffs. Pretty easy since tie breakers for us only matter with the Vikes and they own it. Basically we need the 3 7 loss teams(Panthers,Eagles,Wash) to lose once and the loser of tonight's game to lose 2 of their last 3. Seahawks have Cards and Niners left but Vikes have Bears, Dolphins, and @Lions. The Vikings season has been a disappointment and a loss tonight could send them on a skid, that's basically our only realistic shot assuming we win out.

Was just looking at the ticket prices on StubHub for tomorrow, if anyone is looking for a cheap Lambeau experience the rest of this season should offer some real deals. Not too bad a day tomorrow, 29 but sunny so nice that it is a noon game.

Without looking at the contract details I would guess Rodgers cannot be traded or even cut for at least a couple of years. I think he got something like a $57 million signing bonus that would be accelerated right into the cap if they trade him. Never happen anyway, for better or worse he is our QB for a few more years. Just need a new coaching staff, this front office has always been slow to make changes with the one exception of Rhodes but that was with Wolf in charge. It was funny how the TV crew made a point to blast his moves last night when he has been doing the same dumb stuff for years. I wouldn't mind Pettine for the new HC, he has experience and is outside the current coaching tree. Plus a defensive coach would have a layer between him and Rodgers. No more play calling coaches, I think that is a big part of MM's problem, he makes game decisions off a chart without regard to what is going on in the game because he is too caught up in the plays.