monty57

And not Japanese to take advantage of the huge revenue stream Ichiro can give the Mariners in marketing to Japan.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5898322 And the Sox are officially out of the Fielder trade talks. Edit: The contract breaks down as follows: $12 million in the first year; $12 million, second year; $6.5 million, third year; seven years deferred at $1 million each.

That would be insane This is why one or two dumb GMs can hurt everyone. Werth's contract now becomes the bargaining point for OFs, and de la Rosa's 3 yr/$33MM contract becomes the bargaining point for average SPs. I wasn't behind the Hart extension when it happened, but if it was going to be done, I'm glad it happened before the Werth deal. As for Crawford, he would be much more valuable if he didn't refuse to play CF. I agree with most who have posted that he is a good player, but not one I'd consider giving anything close to 8 years/$180MM.

I know it was just one person's opinion, but I recently read in an article that Pena could be a good pick-up, as his power and plate discipline were still there, and it shouldn't be difficult to increase on the .190's batting average. It will be fun listening to the Cubs fans if he once again bats .190 with huge strikeout numbers, knowing they're paying him $10MM. HiandTight, your post sent shivers down my spine. I'm stuck in Illinois surrounded by Cubs fans. I really don't want Prince to go there unless it's a 20-year $400MM deal :-)

I'll go along with Endaround and Briggs. This was obviously a signing to please the new skipper who publicly stated that he wanted a veteran backup to teach Lucroy the ins-and-outs of the game. Second, I hope they bring in another veteran who is better than Nieves, as it will not be much fun watching Nieves get 60 starts.

I searched around a little and found this from Science Daily: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080712090831.htm "In the study, 743 patients who had the Tommy John surgery were contacted for follow-up evaluations and completed a questionnaire about their recovery. The majority of the patients were baseball players (94.5 percent), the remaining 5.5 percent were involved in track, football or other sports. The study found that 622 patients (83 percent) returned to the previous level of competition or higher. Of the major league players, 75.5 percent returned to the same level of play. For minor league players 56 percent returned to the same level or higher. The average time from surgery to full competition was 11.6 months after reconstruction, according to study results. Additionally about 10 percent of the patients had complications, mostly minor." From reading numerous articles, it seems that although there have been tremendous strides in how to rehab after TJ surgery, it doesn't appear that there is a set timeline for recovery. The timeframe I read most often was "one-to-two years." If Marcum is throwing around the same velocity he was throwing prior to the injury, it would seem that he is among the 75.5% who return to the same level of play. I don't have anything except a little web surfing to base this on, but it is probably not out of the question to believe that his slightly slower fastball in 2010 was due to his arm not being fully recovered, so I wouldn't think it would be out of the question for him to add a MPH or two back to his fastball to get to his pre-surgery levels. Of course, he may not gain that MPH back, but it wouldn't seem to be a trend of his FB velocity declining, it would be due to the one-time incident of TJ surgery, which isn't likely to recur.

Earlier someone mentioned that Gamel was the blocked prospect, not Lawrie, and I agree to a point. I'm sure that if we could have landed Marcum for Gamel, Melvin would have rather made that deal. However, even though Gamel was the Brewers top prospect, and a can't miss stud a couple of years ago, his star has faded and he wouldn't have brought back Marcum in trade. Unfortunately, unless Fielder is traded, Gamel will likely either have to suffer another year in the minors or ride the MLB bench as backup 3B/1B/corner OF. So instead, we have to use our current top prospect / can't miss stud to make this deal. The fact that we have all of our position players other than Weeks and Fielder under control for a long time, and are working on an extension for Weeks, makes high-level position prospects available for trade. Lawrie currently has more trade value than Gamel, so he was the guy used to bring back a front-of-the-rotation starter. As many have mentioned, if Lawrie has to play 1B, his bat isn't all that special, and 1B looks to be the only spot that would be open for him to play. In any 1-for-1 trade, there is a chance that one of the players flames out, but it appears on the surface that both teams can win in this trade. The Brewers are much better than they were prior to the trade, and Toronto has a talented prospect that will probably have a place to play in their system.

Assuming Fielder isn't traded, the Brewers will essentially retain the entire offense that scored the 4th most runs in the NL last year. With Marcum, we now have two legitimate #1 starters, with Wolf showing in the second half last season that he's at least a solid #3. We will probably add another arm to fit in as our #4 and Narveson's a competent #5. Throw in a bullpen with a lot of live, young arms, and I think that saying we couldn't win more than 85 games in 2011 is a little pessimistic. I think this trade definitely makes us contenders for the NL Central in 2011 (remember, this isn't a tough division). What Weeks is currently doing at the MLB level is probably what we could hope Lawrie may one day be capable of, so if we do sign Weeks to an extension, then Lawrie was expendable, as we're locked up at all positions except 1B for years. If Marcum will indeed sign an extension (which IMHO should be done immediately if he's agreeable), then this is a great move, and not simply a move Melvin is making to save his job. I was worried about 2011, and this move wasn't something that ever came close to being on my radar. Now that we've been able to add a serious upgrade to our team without having a negative effect on us offensively, then I am optimistic about this season. That said, the biggest negative I see is that we will probably not get much return for Fielder, as he will probably be dealt at the deadline (if we're out of it), or let go for draft picks. If we get a playoff bid, I'm fine with getting the draft picks. If not, then I will be sad to see us only get the picks for him. Interestingly enough, this move does give Melvin some leverage in the Fielder situations, as teams now know that we don't have to trade him. Melvin can honestly say that we can hold onto Fielder and go for it in 2011. If another team wants to add Fielder to their 2011 roster, the price tag just went up significantly.

I like the move. If Rickie's extended, all of our position players except Fielder will be signed for the next few years, and we have Gamel to take over when Fielder's gone. Therefore, Lawrie was a man without a position in Milwaukee. I think this move means that Fielder will not be traded this offseason, and I really think we have a shot at the division title in 2011. We will retain all of our top-ranked offense, and should have a much better rotation and a solid, young bullpen. I'd guess we'll pick up another #3/4 starter, which shouldn't be too expensive either as a FA or through trade. If we can sign Marcum to a 4-year deal/extension, then I'm really happy about the deal. The above-posted tweet from Rosenthal that makes it sound like Marcum is looking for an extension and is happy to be going back to the Midwest is a good sign.

If they like hard-throwing-but-erratic lefties this much, maybe they'd give us something for Parra. Seriously, this seems like a lot of risk to take on a guy like de la Rosa. However, if this is the market for pitching, Melvin is going to have a hard time filling out the 2011 rotation.

Sure it can. We then just need to get five starters who can throw 200+ strikeouts each and hope no one ever hits a ground ball.

He was my lone hope for a free agent signing. I figured his high K numbers could help him get out of holes dug by the Brewers poor defense, and his down season with the Yankees could allow the Brewers to sign him to a one-year deal (like he did with the Marlins) when the Brewers have plenty of money to spend. I never really expected he'd come here, and now I can finally close that door. Now we still need two pitchers, and the only way we'll get them is at the expense of our offense (trade Fielder, Gamel, McGehee, Weeks, etc.) or at the expense of some of our young pitching in the minors. I hope Melvin is able to successfully walk that tightrope.

Good young catching is rarely traded I'd say that good young anything is rarely traded. Generally, good young players are only traded (especially by a small or mid-market team) if they are being blocked or if it is absolutely the only way of landing someone in a position of greater need. If things had played out differently this year, meaning mainly if Salome had not had the problems he had this year and Lucroy would not have needed to be rushed to the majors due to injury, then we could be in a much different position than we are. We would have two stud catching prospects and a gaping hole in the starting rotation. I don't think it would raise many flags if one of the two stud catching prospects was shopped around for starting pitching help. Now, if we had suddenly shopped Salome after the Brewers knew of the affliction, but before the news got out that he was going to switch positions, then I think the Brewers would be guilty of withholding some extremely relevant information, and could get in trouble.

It does bring the Fielder, Gamel, McGehee situation back to light. McCalvey recently blogged that he thought the chance of keeping Fielder was about 50/50, and with five (or six with Gomez) OF on the roster, it doesn't seem at all likely that Fielder, Gamel and McGehee could all be on the 2011 roster. It's exciting to see any news, even the signing of a fifth OF, but I sure hope the "big trade" happens soon, so we can get a better picture of what the 2011 team will look like.

Huntsville 2008, Michael Brantley, Cole Gilespie, Mat Gamel, Alcides Escobar, Omar Aguilar, and Angel Salome to name a few. Since then, no significant contribution from the minor leagues. A couple scrap heap guys in Axford and McGehee. The minors have almost completely failed us. Well, Brantley (and LaPorta) was dealt for CC (bringing us our one playoff appearance), Gillespie was wasted in a futile attempt at the playoffs in 2009, Escobar is up and has a lot of promise despite a below-expectation 2010 and Gamel still shows a lot of promise if we'd ever give him a chance. Jeffress, Braddock and Rogers showed us this year that they are able to get MLB hitters out, and there is a lot more pitching on the way. We didn't have much at AAA, so we knew there would be little coming from the minors until 2010 at the earliest, and we got a decent showing from rookies in 2010. The Salome situation is unfortunate, but I'm still optimistic on the Brewers' future. This may be over-simplifying things, but our biggest problems have been some high-round pitchers that have had setbacks, but are hopefully getting MLB ready, and a handful of busts in the FA market trying to fill in the MLB rotation since guys like Rogers, Jones and Jeffress weren't ready. I see 2011 as a stepping stone season, where if everything goes right we could be a playoff team, but more likely will be a year where we see some changes this offseason (Fielder, Gamel/McGehee) and see some young pitchers get there shot in the rotation as the season progresses, leading to better years in 2012 and beyond.

This seems to portend an end to the Carlos Gomez era in Milwaukee, unless we're going to pay someone MLB money to play at AAA (in Gomez's case, this would be well over $1MM). If the plan has been to dump Gomez, then picking up a cheap, swith-hitting, good defense OF with some ability with the bat and an option if necessary isn't the worst thing. You would think that they could have got him with a MiLB contract with an invitation to ST, but Doug must've wanted to make sure he got his man. Hopefully, Braun, Hart and Cain will remain productive and healthy, and we'll have some decent depth on the bench, where we lacked power and RH hitters in 2010.

I'll agree somewhat with RockCoCougars in that young pitching is extremely overvalued, probably by both GM's and fan site posters. As Pogo mentioned in the opening post, many here were salivating at the thought of trading a rookie Prince for a rookie Zach Duke. Then, this season, the thought of trading perennial MVP-candidate Fielder for a good young pitcher was seemingly laughable. On topic, it's sad to see a promising talent fail. I hope Duke can find success at the MLB level, but other than a MiLB contract, I don't think the Brewers should take the chance. We already have plenty of question marks that we could insert into the 2011 rotation. I hope we focus on some moves which will bring more talent into the rotation. If we can somehow find a #1/2 guy to mix in with Yo and the resurgent Wolf, and pick up a #3-ish guy to put at #4, leading to Narveson or whomever gets the #5 spot we could be pretty good next season. Let's see if Melvin can pull that out of his hat.

Maybe San Fran wouldn't be Fielder's ideal trade location. I don't think he'd respond too well if they put him on a protien diet and running program to shed weight.

You would really have to hate a place to decline a seven figure salary for a position only 30 people in the world hold (i.e. would you rather live in Milwaukee and make $1MM or live in Philly making $100k?) Theoretically, when Listach was a player, he could play in any Major League city for the same amount of money. Managerial jobs don't come around very often, so most people jump when offered a chance. Generally, the only time someone turns a managerial job down is when that person has a lot of MLB managing experience under their belt, or when they're being offered several jobs in the same year. Plus (purely opinion) when someone is in their 20's, the desire to live in a city can often depend on the city's night life. Once that person is well into their 30's or 40's, the night life doesn't matter nearly as much.

Story's up on milwaukeebrewers.com. I like the quote that when Prince went out for his curtain call in the final game, Macha asked if he should go out too. Good call by WestSideWillie that Pat Listach should at least be given a good look at managing the Brewers. I agree with the posters that say we need someone who will connect with the players, and I think Macha was bad at this, as was evidenced to me when he routinely threw his players under the bus to the media, and his comment that he didn't sit down to talk with his players until early on this season (as opposed to last season). When he first arrived, he was quoted in a "the players need to adjust to me, not the other way around" style. I promised myself going into this season that I wouldn't let Macha upset me as much as he did in 2009, so I've turned a blind eye to him lately, but it is definitely time for someone else.

We may not find the value we'd like, but I think he'll be traded. Think about the fan outrage when Soriano wasn't traded by Washington, and even the media coverage over wheter Giambi would be traded by Oakland (and they were in a playoff run). Most fans don't understand comp picks and don't really care about the draft or draft picks. If we hold on to Prince and let him walk "for nothing," I think a large majority of Brewers fans will be calling for Melvin's head. As we saw with Ned Yost, when a large cintingency of Brewers fans shout loud enough, the head will roll. Since I assume Melvin wants to keep his job, I'd guess we'll make a big public offer to Prince shortly after the season's over, and when he rejects it, we'll get the PR biltz of "we tried to sign him, but he's asking too much money, so we have to trade him so we can get something back." I doubt we'll get the two top-of-the-rotation arms that Melvin apparently was shooting for this season, but I think he'll be traded. Nothing is certain, but I'd put the odds pretty high.

I'd take a helmet-to-helmet hit in football anyday over a mid-90's fastball to the head. One thing that would dramatically alleviate the problem in football would be to make the QBs start wearing mouth guards, but they won't because they like seeing Peyton Manning style audibling on the line. In baseball, they could go with the ultra-padded helmets (like Gomez is now wearing) or go with a facemask like girls softball players wear, but I don't see that happening. Heck, players got mad when MLB finally mandated ear-flaps on the helmets, and the Union made them grandfather players like Jim Gantner so they could still wear helmets without the flaps. I think Al had a good point. I played football with some people who got concussions mid-game and couldn't remember the rest of the game, but they still played fine. I doubt someone would be able to swing a bat or field a line drive with a concussion. That said, concussions are finally becoming recognized as being pretty serious injuries. Until recently, concussions were kind of scoffed at, or like Al Toon, hidden away.

I still don't believe that Prince will sign, and I'm pretty sure he'll be traded this off season, but thanks for the small glimmer of hope that maybe, just maybe both Weeks and Fielder could be extended. I agree with the original sentiment of this thread. Prince has been more than we could have expected from him, and if he is indeed traded this offseason, he will definitely be missed. I think many here underestimate the hit our offense will take next year if Prince is gone and Hart falls back to reality. With his talent, work ethic and chip on his shoulder, I have little doubt that whoever eventually signs him will get their money's worth... that money may just be a little more than the Brewers can handle.

If Melvin hadn't told Macha that Gamel was having the surgery, do you think Macha would have noticed that he wasn't there?

Of course, the owner could realize that his window for a World Series ring is closing, and he may have been willing to bite the bullet and personally lose millions to take a shot this season before turning it back over to a team of pre-arby guys. Who knows?