Brew crew 92

Bam $ 50,000,000 not included in any of these figures. If Attanasio wanted to pay 80% of maryvale upfront he could have with bam money.

Again what say you? Guesstimates? Really am curious.

But I’d say my #s closer to being the truth than yours in this example.

There is nothing "fact" about that. That is 100% pure speculation. You really had to say that? Speculation or guesstimate yes it is!

Just curious what guesstimates you guys have on brewers break even payroll for this year?

I am not sure what the gain in a World Series really gets us. There is value there in the short term...but once again it is not going to make the franchise any more valuable than it was before. Even if you want to argue it does it would be pretty darn marginal. Success on the field just doesn't equal anything to the valuation of the franchise....nothing meaningful that is. The Royals, the only small market to win the World Series in the last friggin decade plus, are proof it doesn't really add anything long term. Their attendance quickly dropped back down to pre-WS levels in three years. Yes, they now suck, but it shows the WS victory wears off fast. They sucked before the WS and now they have comparative or worse attendance numbers. Also lets not forget our WS odds are pathetic to begin with...it is for any team. Fangraphs has us at 1.6%. What is Keuchel or Kimbrel going to make that? 3%? I bet they wouldn't even be that high. $20mil+ to increase our chances a percent or so? So if making that signing worth it you need to win the World Series then there is a 97% chance you pretty much wasted all of that. I am not saying they won't shrink profits to zero or even take a small loss...but they aren't going "all-in" in the sense of tens of millions of dollars in the hole. It is crazy people think Attanasio should throw money around like it isn't an object to take our odds from 1.6% to 3%. The Royals had a payroll of 142 million the year after they won the World Series, with just inflation that would equal 150 million today. I would argue their revenues aren’t as high as ours with everything being equal. Whether they won the series or didn’t win the series just the fact they spent the money should tell us something. Sorry, but in regards to fan graphs I don’t place any stock in their series odds, their resent history predicting or projecting anything Brewers is abysmal. And as far as the crew going tens of millions in the hole for payroll, I think that’s quite the exaggeration there. In fact I would argue a 155 mil payroll this year be zero borrowing.

Mr wopat, Jim answers your question better than I could.

Why, because it’s in his best interest to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Again, you're just making up numbers. Where is your 20 million number for tax and interest coming from? I can do similar math: 66 operating income, subtract 60 million for tax and interest, = $6million, likely what they have available to add at the deadline. Which of us is wrong? I Guess you could be closer to the actual profit figure than I am. I already stated it’s all a guess anyhow. But we’re never gonna know for sure unless the books are shown, which will probably never happen nor should it happen. Lots of people choose to believe what’s being told to them by the powers that be, I choose skepticism based on life’s experiences with extreme money focused individuals, like when someone says “all in” and then poop hits the fan.

FWIW All mlb teams gaining 7 mil/yr starting next year with new Fox deal. Brewers getting increase starting next year with their local tv deal that’s to my knowledge yet to be worked out. Brewers ticket sales up 20%for the year Record number of corporate sponsors Profit is a guess yes, but if we take the 66 operating income and subtract 20 mil for tax & int we get 46 46+ 110 payroll = 156 million max payroll to break even. What are we at now? I’ve read from 121-130 depending on call ups and such. Let’s go with 130 That leaves 26 mil room to break even. Not that he should But that he Could

Brewers operating income from statista: 2018-66 mil 17-67mil 16-58.2 15-27 14-17.3 13-6.8 12-9 11-19.2 10-12.4 09-10.2 08-11.8 07-19.2 06-20.8 05-22 04-24.2 03-5.1 02-6.1 01- -6.1

Even assuming "operating income = profit", doesn't really tell anyone much about that assumed 66 million. Each team received a one time payment of 50 million dollars from the sale of MLBAM in 2018 & the Brewers also made a postseason run which will increase profits. The 50 million is definitely not getting paid out again this year & making the postseason is yet to be determined. Short of winning the WS, I would imagine the Brewers profits decrease this year compared to last year. Article said bam not included.

For the last time, unless you have a link, this is pure speculation. FORBES VALUES DO NOT INDICATE PROFITS, and as many others have pointed out, OPERATING INCOME DOES NOT EQUAL PROFITS. You DO NOT know what the Brewers cleared, unless you are privy to info that isn't public to my knowledge. I don’t know about 2012, but last 6 years I’m guesstimating nice profits. 15 and 16 more than nice.

The problem with the logic of “the team is worth so much more now” is the fact one wants him to spend the money he has made off of the team...but he has made NOTHING. The only way to make that $700mil is to sell the team. At which point he has no team to spend money on. Which all signs point to him never doing so, so the $700mil is pretty darn irrelevant. I don’t recall “all-in” meaning, “flush money down the drain because perceived value is up that I will never actually realize into actual cash”. I believe he claimed in 2012 they lost a slight amount of money (whatever that means/entails) and I am sure he will do it this year in the right situation. To expect “all in” to mean lose million upon millions seems unrealistic. If he says we don’t have any money, well, probably don’t. It’s not 700 mil it’s 952 mil, but what’s another quarter billion dollars. I don’t know about 2012, but last 6 years been massive profits. 15 and 16 if I remember correctly 120+ million. I don’t get the EXTREME Mark Attanasio apologists. 130 mil payroll is nothing for an elite title contender that’s NEVER won a title in 49 years, If not now, when? I think most on this board have been brewer fans less than 35 years, for those of you in that category, imagine another 14 years of no series. See if your patience in 2033 might be wearing a little thin.

From all indications last season, the Brewers in 2018 either had a very small profit or possibly a loss. Throw in the $60+ million for Maryvale. We're the only team spending on our spring training facility. The brewers operating income was 8th in all of baseball at 66 mil, no loss or small profit there.

I think most would want him for a one year deal

I think it's the prior. Kuechel is a soft-tossing lefty who gives up a lot of hits and does not get many strikeouts. I personally don't like him at 20 million for one year. Ok, that’s your opinion, although I think most on this board would disagree. He’s a lefty so there’s that. Eat a lot of innings. Ground ball pitcher. Playoff experience. Why would stearns reportedly be interested in Kuechel early on when his price would have been much higher and now that its dropped not be interested?

I think it's the prior. Kuechel is a soft-tossing lefty who gives up a lot of hits and does not get many strikeouts. I personally don't like him at 20 million for one year. Ok, that’s your opinion, although I think most on this board would disagree.

I never said, not once, that our owner should lose money. What I said was he should forgo the annual profit to truly go “all in” this year. You attribute false statements to me, I’m going to correct them. I’ve never said Attanasio was a bad owner. I said he’s a good owner, BETTER than most. Attanasio is the one who said the brewers are “all in” this year, that was before we lost 2 high leverage pen arms. Why is it silly to expect our owner to do what he said he’d do this year? High probability Kuechel will sign a one year deal north of QO. Now either stearns doesn’t want him for that $ or can’t spend the $. I personally think it’s the latter.

You just can’t be serious with some of these takes. I don't think his premise is wrong. We constantly support this team. This year we're second to the Giants in spending per person, but we've been #1 several years. So does the owner "owe" us a genuine effort to win? I believe he does. I just guess I'm not seeing where he's failing to do so. If Kimbrel would take 1 year and 15 million and Mark A refused, MAYBE I'd agree in that scenario. But I have a feeling Attanasio wanted Kimbrel signed as much as anyone on here. But this isn't a one year window. I'm looking at next years team and frankly that team looks like it's lined up to be just as good, provided we're healthy. So instead of a crazy one year "all in," lets make it a "4 year mostly in, but not stupidly all in" type of window. Truly all in means signing Kuechel to the 1 year deal he’s reportedly willing to sign. That’s the move I think we all agree would help this team tremendously right now.

You just can’t be serious with some of these takes. So you don’t agree we over-perform as a fan base? Or is it that we haven’t over-performed for enough years? Or is it you believe our owner truly is “all in” THIS year financially? Be careful how you answere the last question, with all of this new information.

What about the customer that OVER-PERFORMS to give said owner the now proven cash cow. Over-performs year after year after year...... We do deserve an honest “all in” don’t we?

It's self imposed because they are not stupid! It’s only stupid if the only thing that matters is profit

Can’t wait to hear the rationalizations in trying to disput this absolutely fantastic take. Attanasio said “all in”. He needs to put his $ where his mouth is. 144 million increase in the value of the team in ONE year. Take 14% of that 144 mil and invest it in Kuechel. 49 years is long enough!!!!

I never said he was a plus defender ... just that he has the ability to man CF on a regular basis, which is 100% correct. He's got the speed, athleticism and arm to do it, unlike Stokes, who does not have the arm to play CF on a regular basis. And if you're looking for optimism on his hit tool, look no further than his college stats at Louisville. The ability is there. He's battled injuries throughout his minor league career, and last year was really the first where he could put his tools on display for an extended run. I think most everyone knew that there would be a learning curve with Ray, as he was more of a raw, projectable prospect coming out of college than a lot of high picks. But the guy has all the ability in the world. It's just a matter of being able to put enough of it together to make himself an MLB asset. I think most everyone was hoping that he'd put things together sooner, but he's only 24 years old, and is playing regularly at the highest level of the minors, so the trajectory is still there. Ok, just seein box scores lately depressing.