Brewcrew82

"As mentioned to me before in other threads"???? This is literally the first time I've even proposed this swap. so not sure what you're talking about there. To be honest, your tone is pretty condescending. Anyways, I disagree, because hitters are more valuable than relievers, which is all that Puk is at this point. Moreover, if the A's think there's something to Hiura's adjustments at the plate, they might think they can eventually flip him for prospect(s). Moreover, the value lines up evenly per https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/. Treinen's precise value is hard to pin down as he was injured for most of this season. I just don't see the Dodgers picking up the option given that they also have some key players set to hit FA. On the open market, it may take something around $10 mil. to get him to come to Milwaukee.

Exactly. By no means am I saying that Mertz is an established star QB. I'm just pushing back on the notion that he's a "huge bust" like Brown. Let's see how he finishes out the year, as it will tell us to what extent PC's play-calling was holding him back. Last week in Evanston was a good start, and his numbers on the season are still up there with some of the better QB's in the BIG (the non-Stroud division).

Gasser and Ruiz are not "lottery tickets". They're borderline top 100 prospects at this point and proven performers at the AAA level. A lottery ticket is a prospect in the DSL or Low-A, who has potential yet is light on actual production. I.E., Freddy Peralta in the Adam Lind trade.

And we were set to lose him for nothing in free agency or receive an even lesser return this offseason if we continued to hang on to him....Overall, your perspective is retrospective, when it should be prospective, meaning the value that Hader would have provided to us in the last year and a half of his team control. Gasser and/or Ruiz becoming major contributors over the course of a potential 6 years of team control would almost certainly exceed that value.

Northwestern is not good this year (to say the least), but that place has been a house of horrors for Wisconsin football, and Graham Mertz went ahead and threw for 300 yards and 5 TDs. Either way, if you've watched the games this year, you'll know that Mertz has generally been one of the few bright spots and far from the cause of this team's struggles,

Yeah Hader׳’s back to his dominant self, though he nearly gave up HRs to Freeman and Smith. But yesterday was the first time he recorded a 4 out save since 2020 so it is noteworthy.

He's entering his prime and the metrics back up his breakout. He was good in 2021 as well. Compare that to what we got from the catcher position this year. Huge upgrade.

Stop traffic. Josh Hader pitching in an inning that isn't the 9th.

He was given every opportunity to earn a starting spot in camp and even during the season, and he failed. His pass-blocking is atrocious.

It doesn't have to be Wiemer. You can probably substitute any one of our AAA OF prospects to headline the deal. But we need upgrades on offense and Jansen provides a great opportunity due to the Jays roster crunch at catcher. We'll have to trade one of our outfielders eventually. Narvaez just doesn't hit the ball hard enough. His hard hit metrics are UGLY.

Whatever. The O-line has been embarrassing for Wisconsin standards, so it's time for the cream of the crop to rise, up and for everyone else to go. Hopefully Nolan Rucci can break the trend of 5 star OL busts dating back to Josh Oglesby.

You can laugh out loud all you want. But he's not playing like a "huge bust" right now, and the numbers back that up. We will have to see how he does against tougher competition, but even by the eye test he's playing a lot better than the last two years.

Dodgers' offense is so fun to watch. Every time the Padres score, they have an answer. If anything holds them back this postseason, it will be their pitching.

Graham Mertz hasn't played like a "huge bust" this year. Yeah he had rough games against Ohio State and Illinois, but literally the entire team did in those games. His efficiency numbers are all way up, and he's 2nd in FBS in "big-time throws", per PFF.

It doesn't matter what they remind you of. They've both produced at the minor league level and are borderline top 100 prospects. That's not "nothing" like you claim it is. If they produce and/or are traded for players that produce, then the Hader trade becomes a lot better-looking. It's wait and see for now.

Gasser and Ruiz are two really promising prospects, so he didn't "give away Hader for nothing". They will determine the outcome of this trade. If one or both of them turn into major contributors going forward, then the trade will look a lot better.

Jansen is really good (led all catchers in wRC+), we desperately need a catcher, and we have a surplus of outfield prospects. I like Wiemer, but he's just a prospect and has probably the highest variance of anyone in our farm system. You have to give to get.

If they were to trade Burnes (highly unlikely), I don't see them immediately going out and signing Abreu and Clevinger. If anything, they'd pocket the savings and go full-steam ahead with the rookies and the prospects from the Burnes trade. Also, that isn't enough for Burnes. What the Reds got for Castillo is your reference point and should probably exceed that given that Burnes would have 2 full seasons of team control.

Jansen led all MLB catchers in WRC+ last season. He's more than a "slightly above-average" catcher. I was going based off https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/. Jansen's surplus trade value is 17.8, which requires Wiemer+ to match.

This ignores the fact that Kirk is regularly featured at DH, which, if they traded Jansen, would make Moreno the starter. You trade the guy with the least amount of team control, which is Jansen.

You're speaking in terms of what you WANT to see. I'm speaking in terms of what we're LIKELY to see. In his press conference today, Stearns said they're planning on bringing back the "core" and going for the playoffs again. Burnes, along with Woodruff, are the centerpiece of that core, and trading any one of them is likely to severely diminish our playoff chances. Also, he talked about how he learned from the Hader trade how major roster shakeups can hamper team chemistry. All of which tells me that Burnes is highly unlikely to be traded this offseason, despite the massive haul we could get for him. More likely, he'll be traded next offseason if/when efforts to extend him have failed, and we'll still get a heck of a lot for him. Same thing with Renfroe. A contending team cannot afford to trade him and rely mostly on rookies to step into his shoes, especially considering Renfroe was the best hitter on an otherwise offensive-starved team this year. If they trade Burnes AND Renfroe, as you want them to do, then they're essentially punting on next season, which would conflict with their stated desire to seriously contend. Also, Renfroe is not "standing in the way" of the AAA outfielders being able to develop in the majors. If anyone was standing in their way, it was McCutchen, and he'll be gone next season. Meanwhile, Mitchell has already started his development and was a fixture in the lineup at the end of the season. Frelick is likely to see major playing time starting early next season (if not by opening day) as one of the other featured outfielders, with Yelich seeing increased time at DH. As for Ruiz and Wiemer, they'll likely start next season in AAA as they're not quite ready. And even then, Ruiz is probably best used in a utility role. They also could be traded to upgrade other areas of the roster, like for a Danny Jansen. Bottom line is Renfroe provides much needed offensive assurance for a contending ballclub, and his production warrants the $11 mil. salary.

I take "core" to mean Burnes, Woodruff, Adames, Williams etc.

The Jays have three starting to elite caliber catchers. They are going to be severely hard pressed to go into next season with all of them on their roster. Thus, they will have to trade one of them, and Jansen is the most likely candidate as he has the least amount of club control Also, you should look at this site, which provides you with a rough estimate of a player's trade value. It is known to be used by major league executives in at least some capacity. You will notice that Jansen has median value of 17.8. In comparison, Houser's median value is 6.1., or less than half of Jansen's. Even a prospect like Joey Wiemer doesn't get you all the way there on his own. So, yes, while it wouldn't cost a Chourio or a Frelick, it will definitely cost one of our upper-tier prospects to acquire Jansen. https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/

Houser doesn't get you even close. It's going to require one of our top AAA prospects to headline the deal imo.

His offensive stats are nothing to write home about??? His 140 WRC+ led all MLB catchers with at least 200 plate appearances...