UpandIn

Well...one of those years was 2020, so that's really not meaningful. He's Jacob deGrom. You might take him over Burnes, but he's healthy...and I suspect you'd be in the overwhelming minority on that. I love Burnes. He's great. deGrom is in a league of his own however. It's 11.4 WAR vs 8.5 WAR since 2020...and again, deGrom WAS injured much of that time. The other has been in his prime and won a Cy Young. That in and of itself is insane. deGrom is all the way back, averaging 99 MPH on his FB again. There's just no comp for him. If he hadn't come back or was still having shoulder issues, absolutely, the risk would be too great. But he came back from a stress fracture in his shoulder and was as dominant as ever. deGrom has allowed 1 or fewer run in almost HALF of his starts...for his entire career. That is...incomprehensible.

I agree...mostly. Except for the distinction about him being an Angels fan. He's from the area. Meaning he'd be able to live close to home...his friends and family could come and watch him regularly. If the Dodgers want him, let them take on Yelich and his deal. We'll pay 4M annually(I don't actually believe that'll happen). Then WE can go and pay for Eovaldi and Bassitt on short deals, lock up Woodruff and count on the young players.

He's been a starter ONE season. Buehler should be back by the end of next year. They've got the best BP in baseball probably(Craig Kimbrel didn't make their post-season roster). Maybe they don't want to do a lot of things. I'll bet one of those is giving up a ton of prospects, including at least 3 top 10 for Burnes. I'd prefer a Dodgers package for him. They don't make those types of trades. Even when they pull off big trades, they manage to keep the premier talent(Ruiz traded, kept Cantaya)... They traded for Mookie Betts. They took back David Price and gave up Verdugo and Jeter Downs who couldn't hit .200 this year in AAA. So...yeah, I'm all for trading Burnes to the Dodgers. But as I've said from the start, I don't think they're going to be interested in trading FOR Burnes enough to make it work. And again, maybe to get 4 legit prospects, we go back to a truly desperate team. SD. Merrill, Lesko, Snelling, Rosario and Mazur. Maybe they get something back in addition to Burnes, but...the Dodgers are too smart to package 3 or 4 players who should be impact players in the next year most likely. But hopefully not. Hopefully in a move of irrational stupidity, they tell Friedman what to do...who knows. I do think saying a 111 win team that won the WS 2 years ago NEEDS Burnes is...a little hyperbolic. Especially considering their budget.

I mean...c'mon...do you really disagree? In that scenario, you the #4 is a guy with a sub 3 ERA his first 3 years OR a guy who in his first season as a full time starter put up a 2.14 ERA. Urias is an ace on most staffs. deGrom is an ace on maybe every staff of the last 20 years... And...as YOU'VE argued, they have a slew of guys who'd be middle relievers. DeGrom/Rodon, Urias, Kershaw, Gonsolin/May That's not counting on bringing any of their other FA's back, it's not counting on any of their AAA/MLB pitchers stepping in...and it's also not factoring in that no team develops pitching as well as the Dodgers. They could still WANT Burnes. They wanted Taylor despite having Seager...but they were the best team in baseball this year and their rotation would be better in this scenario.

Well...then the Dodgers develop a lot of outliers.

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And just 5 minutes ago you were arguing if the 2021 season was last season or two seasons ago. Seems to me you're enjoy arguing pointless issues while willfully ignoring the very clear point being made and in doing so, sidetrack a discussion.

And just 5 minutes ago you were arguing if the 2021 season was last season or two seasons ago. Seems to me you're enjoy arguing pointless issues while willfully ignoring the very clear point being made and in doing so, sidetrack a discussion.

It really is though. What other pitcher has gotten 9 years and 300M? In fact, I don't think a pitcher has gotten 7 in the last couple years. They're usually 5 or 6 years now. And I do not agree Burnes is the best pitcher in baseball. deGrom is the best pitcher in baseball and I don't think it's particularly close. After him there are a number of pitchers you could argue are better than Burnes(Wheeler being one, Scherzer...Verlander among them).

It really is though. What other pitcher has gotten 9 years and 300M? In fact, I don't think a pitcher has gotten 7 in the last couple years. They're usually 5 or 6 years now. And I do not agree Burnes is the best pitcher in baseball. deGrom is the best pitcher in baseball and I don't think it's particularly close. After him there are a number of pitchers you could argue are better than Burnes(Wheeler being one, Scherzer...Verlander among them).

Eh....you'd probably hate to look back and read some of your previous posts then.

Eh....you'd probably hate to look back and read some of your previous posts then.

Is he measuring in YEARS or in SEASONS? Now if it wasn't last season...it would have to be the season before? Hence he won a Cy Young two SEASONS ago. And he's not the one who made a big deal of this. You're the one who's nit picking the most benign things.

Is he measuring in YEARS or in SEASONS? Now if it wasn't last season...it would have to be the season before? Hence he won a Cy Young two SEASONS ago. And he's not the one who made a big deal of this. You're the one who's nit picking the most benign things.

330 with playoffs. 130+ pitches. 6 man rotations instead of 4. All of this was REALLY too difficult of a concept to grasp?

330 with playoffs. 130+ pitches. 6 man rotations instead of 4. All of this was REALLY too difficult of a concept to grasp?

That's...ONE of the pitchers I mentioned. And Ashby struggled with his command in the minors just like he has at the big league level. Pepiot dominated at the MLB level last year, Stone dominated at AA and...really has nothing left to accomplish in the minors. Buehler as I said threw about 100 IP in all of the minors and was an ace by 23. Urias threw 84 innings in AAA. May threw 46 innings in AAA. The Dodgers do NOT leave their starters in AAA very long. And it's not just Kershaw.

No, not when they're able to take a Tyler Anderson and shave 2-3 runs off his ERA or Heaney and shave ~4 runs off his. They won 111 games last year after losing Scherzer and then watching May and Buehler go down with TJ. They have 5 or 6 pitchers with plus stuff who are expected to either start the year in the big league club, or make their debut(VERY conservatively speaking). A 111 win team doesn't "need" to get 2 of the top 3-4 pitchers in baseball.

Why at least that? Year after year we see the Dodgers take pitchers and get them to perform at a high level at the MLB level. I don't think they need "at least" half a regular season, certainly not 1-2 years of big league development. Dustin May threw ~45 innings in AAA. Walker Buehler threw 36 AAA innings and a little over 100 total. Kershaw skipped AAA altogether outside of rehab assignments. If you dominate at AA and AAA and then come into camp and throw well...why send them back down? All of those pitchers arrived earlier than Miller, Stone or Pepiot would...if they break camp with the MLB team...and I expect all three will. And Buehler mis-season 2024 or even 2025? He should be back by the end of next season, not 2 1/2 years. I'm not arguing that Burnes doesn't help them out immensely, but you're painting as dire a picture as humanly possible for a team that continually churns out once ace after another. Tyler Anderson; https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/anderty01.shtml Andrew Heaney https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/heanean01.shtml

That is encouraging. Woody is coming off a big year, he's a exceptional comp for Castillo. I'd just be talking to all 3 on what they're consider signing an extension for. I'd have a range in which I'm comfortable with. Woody I'd start at 6/110 and use Castillo as a comp, but then go to 5/110 with an TO/vesting. Burnes 5/115 go to 5/130 with a mutual option to maybe bring it to 135. Willy...I'd come in low there. 6/90. I just don't know exactly what you're getting and he'd likely turn that down. I'd also TRY and get these done ASAP with the pitchers. I've said I thought you'd see deGrom getting up to 45M a year over 3 years. A 3 year 135 type deal is not unrealistic given his talent, team and ownership. Verlander I think will get a Bauer type deal but beat it by ~5M a year. So I think it makes a lot of sense for Burnes to sign that first deal, get that security and then he'll only be 33 when he's a FA again. We run out 6 man rotations now. It's not the 70s where your Cy Young winner throws 350 innings, it's not even the 80s or 90s where they'll throw 280 or 130 pitches. Burnes throws 110 at most and then they ease off him the next day. More effort, so maybe, as I said, he needs TJ. We just saw Verlander get TJ, come back and have arguably the best year of his career ERA wise and his FB velo is better in 2022 than it was in 2012. A pitcher feels a twinge in his shoulder, they sit them down for a month or longer. A pitcher with his stuff, all the pitchers he has, I see no reasonhe can't throw until he's ~40. I also believe a 3 year deal with an inflated AAV is more palatable to teams than long deals. They'd rather pay more for a pitchers prime than risk it and hope for the best at the end of the deal. But we'll have to wait and see how this off-season plays out first.

I kinda think most people do. I guess you could have said in the last draft...although, if I was going to describe when the Packers picked Quay Walker, I'd say "last years draft."

I kinda think most people do. I guess you could have said in the last draft...although, if I was going to describe when the Packers picked Quay Walker, I'd say "last years draft."