UpandIn

He gets fired up...he goes off on the umps from time to time. But beyond that, unless he goes to the media...which is a GREAT way to tear the team apart, we don't know what else he does. As of 9/4, this is the first season the Brewers might be underperforming since he's been manager vs several seasons of vastly overperforming. I think he's probably got a good feel.

Really wasn't a "silly" trade. JBJ had 17.4 WAR in 6 years with Boston, never dipping below 2.0(even in 2020) and averaged 4.2 over a full 162 games. For that, they got Alex Binelas, a 3B prospect who slid to the 3rd round and who has hit 24 HRs this year. He was a guy everyone in this organization was excited about, but it's the price of about 300M less in revenue than Boston. They also got David Hamilton...which isn't nothing. So they paid JBJ 9.5M this year and if he has just a NORMALY year, any other year he'd had with them, they pick up the option. They ended up basically buying two prospects for 10.5M and the likelyhood that JBJ would bounce back. Not silly, calculated risk. But hey, Renfroe's nice. He'll probably stick for one more year. He's NOT a foundational piece though. He's over 30, we have FIVE players in the minors who can play in the OF(4 full time OFers) and our top prospect is an OFer. Wiemer is the prototype RFer...and Renfroe is NOT a good defensive RFer. But he's been a real nice fill in and he'll be a nice gap to Wiemer, Mitchell, Frelick and Ruiz taking full time jobs(or at least a couple of them as they start next year and take over by '24). And by '24, Chourio should be close. For instance? He was like...225/.295 at the ASB. Really nice player having a really nice year. Probably a good time to sell high on him, but I'd run it back. But definitely NOT a guy you sign to an extension that'll he'll be starting at age 32. You'd have TWO OFers locked up. What exactly do you want to do with Frelick, Mitchell, Ruiz, Wiemer, Chourio, maybe Tyler Black and Brice Turang? It just...doesn't make sense.

You know what that gets you? A team that plays tight. A team that presses. A Ned Yost team. Not that he yelled at the team per say, but he was always so high strung, his words were less important than his demeanor. Baseball isn't like other sports. The harder you try, the worse you usually do. Not the more time you put in off the field, the harder you try to get a hit, the harder you try and throw a FB past someone, it has to be relaxed aggression. I think CC does a great job of that.

Eh...that's a bit disappointing. When you hear upper 90s with late bite and a potential 60 slider...you think maybe overpowering late inning reliever, the type of guy who can just blow away. Maybe Derrick Turnbow(the short-lived good version). I know I get a little too hung up on the FB Velocity, but it just provides so much more room for error. You can have guys like Maddux just painting with a thin brush, but it was usually Smoltz who dominated in the playoffs. The power pitcher. I do like Strezelecki and Cousins was nasty last year. So I'll be happy to get the later back and have been pleasantly surprised with the prior, but...hoping maybe we had that Knebel down there and we could throw him into a race in Sept-and I realize how silly that sounds!

Yeah...I like Danny Davis and Kendrick Pryor as well, but you ARE going back a looong way to start that list and the two best, Chambers and Lee were around 2000. It feels to me like it all starts with the OL. It's been, in my opinion, overrated the last 5-6 years. Taylor made them look better than they were, now Allen. But more than that, they don't seem particularly adept at pass blocking. It's like they start the best run blockers and hope they're good in pass pro(and certainly some are, but not to the degree that you expect that 4-5 star recruits). And I view Mertz as a bit of a victim of that pass pro. I also understand the complaining about the Badgers is kinda like the complaining about the Packers, the Bucks(coach Bud's adjustments or lack thereof) or even the Brewers who are in the best run since 1982. But it's also natural to want to see you team keep getting better and not plateau. Not to say the lack of pre-snap motion isn't warranted, but I also remember Paul Chryst had this team 12-0 heading into the B1G Title Game they lost by 6 point with Alex Hornibrook and ended up 13-1. They need to find that playmaker who's a threat in the open field. Maybe it's Allen, maybe it's Lewis, maybe they run some pre-snap motion with Mellusi. Something. They have to be more creative. I do think today was a good start, but...moving the TE from one side of the formation to the other doesn't do a whole lot. It's not really making the defense show you anything. So it's all post-snap reads vs teams who are running a lot of run blitzes...which turn into just blitzes without great pass pro and without ELITE WRers. I agree, we've been solid at WRer, but we haven't had an Olave type since Lee Evans. Hopefully these next two years will lead to something. The front 7 talent is really impressive, the OL is young and highly touted. The WRers looked like they had a little elusiveness to them and were pretty smooth and I really liked how Engram started this season off. Giving Mertz easy completions, I liked the route combos. But I really hope they still have BIG chunks of the offense to put in or at least show. I also think...despite of the abject failure Mertz's career has been thus far, he still has the talent to succeed. Edit-And we've seen that pure talent. They just need to help him a little more, help his confident grow and hopefully...he'll take off. Also, hopefully Engram can help recruit the QB position.

I see your point, but at least in Basketball, you're not just physically getting abused and you have a FAR greater chance at pulling an upset vs a blue blood, top 4 team than you do in CFB. Look at the talent UGA has and how many times they've lost to 'Bama. It's basically just 'Bama and whatever team is particularly loaded and set up just perfectly to maybe knock off the Tide from year to year. Usually just another former Alabama coach that's had a monster recruiting class with one Superstar QB. I thought Graham Mertz could elevate the program. Show that we can be more than just a running team team with an elite front 7. Maybe other QBs see that, we get a couple more skill positions recruited, maybe knock off OSU and win the B1G and elevate the recruiting. A lot to put on a QB, but until we CAN recruit and develop that position, I don't see top tier WRers coming and until we can compete offensively, it's hard to get those blue chip DBs that we need to match up with the 4 OSU WRers that'll end up going in the top 2 rounds of the draft at some point like Wilson, Olave, Smith-Njigba and Marin Harison Jr who were on the team last year(not to mention a 3rd round pick at TE and a likely top 3 draft pick at QB).

Is Hobie Harris MAYBE working his way into a possible call-up? I know very little about him beyond the stat line and the big fastball. He clearly walks too many, but .161 BAA and a 100MPH FB with movement(apparently)? I found these grades on him from last year on a Jays site; GRADE SCALE: Fastball: 60 Changeup: 50 Slider: 55 Control: 60 The 60 Control seems...high, but if he's got the FB/SL combo, power arm...seems intriguing. That match what you see??

He looks like he's got big legs, thick torso and none of that John Clay extra weight on him. Those two passes to Dike were really well designed. Especially the TD. That little post-corner with the outside two running I believe a dig and a skinny post. Things seemed to be on time. We'll see how the OL does and how the WRers uncover vs better competition, but looked good tonight.

I didn't notice a real difference from last year, but the guy calling the game on FS1 said something a couple times about how he was "about 8 pounds away from being a Heisman candidate." Inferring that he needed to lose a little weight/get into better game shape. I saw absolutely no sign of any bad weight on him...in fact, just the opposite.

I thought in the past I'd seen a lot more "injuries" that final pre-season game than any other game! But it is a nice chunk of change for Davis...who looked like an actual NFL caliber WRer. I would guess he'll latch on with someone's PS a some point(if not the Packers once they're allowed to sign him again).

Yes, Wong has gone through a slump defensively this year...one he seems to have bounced back from. He'd long been an elite defensive 2nd basemen. So saying we have a "hatchet man" at 2nd and based on THAT needs to be replaced, that's definitely harsh. Urias has basically been average or slightly below average. 0 runs saved, per fielding bible. Savant has him just slightly below. I'm not advocating bringing Wong back for 10M when we have Turang, but I don't think the reason we need to move on is the current level of defense(if it is, Jace has been exceptional over there). I'd GLADLY take Austin Riley and his 212M despite his defense.

It's higher than 2/1....IIRC, it was anything under 77%. MAYBE that's changed a little bit with the lower BA across MLB(making runs more valuable). But as last I could recall, it was just a couple points under 80 and you were hurting your team. That's a bit harsh. Wong hasn't been his typical self, but a hatchet man at 2B? And Urias is terrible at SS...for whatever reason, but he's about average at 3rd. He's just generally unimpressive. Even with bad luck this year with a BABIP around .240, I agree, he'd be best served as a utility player. And I'm a big Turang fan, but I wouldn't get rid of Adames. I think he has also been the victim of a little bad luck(.263 BABIP) but more than that, he needs to keep his walk rate above 10% as it was last year. Being more selective may lead to a couple fewer HRs, but ~.260/.340 is a BIG difference than .230/.290. If you're using the .232/.292 line he's putting up this year, OR the career .255/.323, either way, I think that's incredibly inaccurate when it comes to Turang's ceiling. I don't what you're basing this off of. Turang at 22 in AAA; .290/.360/.416 Adames at 22 in AAA; .286/.353/.412 How are we arriving at the conclusion that Turang's BEST case scenario is Willy Adames without power(particularly when the guy seems to be filling out and...adding power)? It's also leaving out Turang's speed...which was kinda the point of this thread. That doesn't seem to be anywhere near his CEILING...unless you're just talking about next year. Then I'd still be inclined to disagree, but it'd make more sense to me.

I've asked and I'll ask again, what was the move they could have or should have made? I'm not bothering again, but I went down the list of pretty much all the position players, and the ones that made the most sense...in my estimation...bringing back Escobar(which would have been panned as standing still anyway) wouldn't have helped as he has a negative WAR. Taylor and Turner both went back to LAD and neither has been worth their salary and that's without factoring what they'd have had to actually pay as...just going out on a limb, I'll guess those are more desirable destinations. So...lets use the benefit of hindsight. Who can you make a reasonable argument should have been brought in during the truncated free agency period?

If he's THAT good, maybe we try and Wander Franco him? I know you're really just giving a realistic timeframe for when to expect him should everything continue to go well, but IF he continues to perform like he has, I wonder if...maybe we decide he's the type of talent who gets a long term deal before playing in Milwaukee(or shortly after he starts in Milwaukee).

Good to hear. It's just so hard to tell how these guys are going to do at the next level. I watched CJ Goetz and didn't get the hype(clearly I was wrong). I have an old friend who works for the program and he'll mention this kid or that kid...and on occasion I'll go watch them. Wohler is the last kid I got to see and had some degree of confidence I could predict future success. The MOST impressive kid I've seen was Benton...but that was as a Wrestler. People can complain about the play calling and the reasons we're not able to take the next step as a program, but one thing they continue to do an amazing job with is developing these kids. Physically putting them on a good diet, a good weight training program, they don't over-train them. And hopefully with Bostad back as the OL coach, that identity will come back out. I think the D is loaded. They've certainly got that Taylor, Dayne-like horse to rely on in Allen. If the OL can hold their blocks, hopefully the WRers can get open. I have absolutely no clue who the TEs are or really anything about them. IIRC, one chose UW over ND and was supposed to be a nice prospect.

It kinda feels like the Brewers have made a concerted effort to develop players who can and will do those things. Ruiz is apparently an exceptional bunter. And we don't need to go back to having our #3 hitting bunting over the 1st and 2nd hitter, but occasionally putting down a bunt. A REALLY big thing is guys with bat control control. Guys who can stick the bat out there and beat the shift. They've certainly played before and I think guys like Black, Frelick are those types...but we'll have to see. All the prospects can run and field with the exception of Ruiz who's defense is still a bit of a question. That's the type of lineup and personnel we need. Then the 2022 version of Rowdy and Adames are fine. But when HRs are your primary way of scoring runs, you're not going to be very consistent.

Yeah...I don't really see the issue either. I like them. Or people don't like them/comment on them and they move down.

I'd never shake another Brewers players hand again!

Hopefully lots of them. The more times they're "participating," in the playoffs, the more chances they have to win a World Series. -8 playoff appearances in Brewers History -4 under Craig Counsell in the last 4 years! "Quoting smart dead people does not make your point any stronger." -Albert Einstein (what the hell, we attribute all other types of quotes to him that he didn't actually say, so lets give him this one)

I think I had him 6th...IIRC. That felt pretty high given I've LONG been a huge Turang fan boy, and then Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Black and obviously Chourio feels like an obvious one. Where do you have him? I'll guess ahead of Black. Maybe Turang as I think I like him better than others. Ahead of the AAA OFers?

This is totally and utterly without merit. In fact, everything I've read has suggested that the Brewers pay their executives a premium. So I don't know why he'd "cheap out," all the sudden. Because he's a naïve business man and doesn't understand the value of executives? As for Stearns, again, without merit to suggest because he's a lame duck he's not going to do what's in the best interest of this team. If you're arguing that not planning on being part of the future means he's going to make moves that damage the future, then I'd refer you to Robert Gasser. Seems like if he was so dead set on getting out of Milwaukee, he'd have been willing to overpay for the few bats that were available. The Trevor Rosenthal deal never made sense and I didn't like the Matt Bush deal, but neither were short sighted deals. Right...they're certainly not in a position where they have to choose between either or. They could realistically lose both Burnes and Woodruff and remain competitive in 2025 given the pitching they have and the pitching projected to be up by then. That's not to say it's a good idea...it clearly isn't wise to lose two aces for two draft picks. As for the Brewers being overbudget...it's obviously impossible to know exactly where they are, but with the increased National TV money(which sadly is a fraction of how revenue is shared in the other two leagues)...that's going up enough that I think they can pretty comfortably stay in the 130 range or even push it up to 150. The Brewers are getting at a minimum of 110M before attendance or anything else is factored in with the new TBS/ESPN TV deals and the tiny revenue sharing. So I think 130 is kinda the new 100M for this franchise. They won't spend it just to spend it(as they may have done in the past cough*Suppan*cough)...but I believe Attanasio when he says the money is there to add players in the budget. And he was pretty clear, there was no player deal they could have made for this year or the next 2-3 years that wouldn't have fit into their budget before kinda stopping short. It still doesn't make sense to lock yourselves into long term deals like Kris Bryant, but I don't think the Brewers need to take a big step back in terms of payroll.

I haven't gotten to see him yet, but everything I see suggests he's a REALLY advanced catcher defensively. That's kinda wild. If he was just 19 and hitting like he is at HiA you'd assume he'd have work to do defensively, but he really seems and sounds impressive from what I've heard about him. This Latin American thing...just going out on a limb here, I could be wrong...but it seems like a pretty good idea to invest into the scouting and development down there!

I do not think that's what's happening. Seems like the state of pitching is as good as it's been in a VERY long time. I'll chalk it up to a great, steroid aided first half of his career, then a TERRIBLE contract that kept him around much longer than he should have been. I've gotta swallow that acid taste in my mouth from ALMOST kinda, sorta defending Pujols(more defending modern baseball), but...you're being a bit tight here on HOF. Madison Bumgardner? You don't have Verlander on there, you don't have Mussina on there. Just going through guys he's hit multiple HRs off and it's at 16 at a quick count and only going through the guys he's hit the most off of(I didn't even get to Greinke or CC). Meanwhile...when Willie Mays played, just a vastly different era. You didn't have Joe Nathan or Brad Lidge guys coming in out of the pen after Johan Santana or Roy Oswalt. So I'll give the nod to Willie Mays EVERY day of the week because he did it clean, he faced very different issues, he was just a better player. But I think you'd be able to make the same arguments for every modern day player comparing them to an older player. Miggy vs Jimmie Foxx or whatever comparison you'd like to make.

I suspected that, but I don't know enough to make that claim. I mean...I'm just some idiot on a forum, so I know I'm not held to some high journalistic standard(like on Twitter!) but I've heard that as well.

They're usually bottom of the roster stuff, but...they matter every once in a while. Desmond Howard was nearly cut in 1995(apparently, I just heard it on the replay of the '95 Super Bowl). Also...yeah, it's all ultimately pointless to spend energy on it, but it's kinda like the Brewers farm system in a hyper condensed manner. Young guys come in, they're all you see all summer and then you start pulling for a few guys. They very seldom let a guy go who they should have kept. As for Taysom Hill he didn't really seem that impressive to me until, IIRC, the last pre-season game when it looked like he was gonna take off...again, and he picked up a WRer and then just let about a 40 yard rope go and hit him in stride. He was on the right hash running right and threw it back across the field. That's back when some people were high on Brett Hundley(myself included) and he was having a really nice pre-season while MOST of Hill's success seemed to come in more of the Danny Etling fashion until that big throw. So it was more of who'd be the #3 or PS QB and I think they went with Callahan. He's been gimmicky, but he's been a stud as well. There was a playoff game where on back to back plays he should have had TDs. One he threw a ~55 yard TD pass to Kamara, called back due to a hold. Then he gets behind the defense, but Brees didn't have the strongest arm. But the punt blocks, the coverage ability on special teams. I agree though, in GB, he's just in the QB group and I don't think McCarthy ever considers putting him on punt team, it made him a pretty valuable player though. Also, can't imagine ANY Packers HC taking the ball out of Aaron Rodgers hands so they could run some RPOs or because they wanted a guy who threatened the D a little more with his arm strength. Rodgers will be long since retired before that's an issue for him.