BrewerFan

Yeah... but you just made it that much more expensive to cut him next year. His dead cap next year would have been 13. Now it's 26. So... you just got done signing him to this contract to begin with coming off a roughly average career with the 49ers(using PFF metrics, I didn't watch him enough in SF to know what he looked like). You choose to keep him after he was injured and bad and you are paying him another 29M for this next year in new cash. None of it makes sense, but it'll make less sense to me if he plays better next year and then they still cut him despite not saving salary cap space.

I think they'll do something else in Free Agency... and I still won't understand why they did ANYTHING to that contract. You're already paying him 20M for next year(new money)... and now it's 26M cap hit to get out next year. I thought they should have cut him... though I didn't think they would. Restructuring was the worst case IMO. Yeah, but they could have done several other moves and still not done anything with Banks. He was both bad AND hurt last year. He was the last guy I wanted to see restructured and I'd have been more than fine moving off him, going and getting one of the 4-5 quality veteran OGs on the market and been free of his cap hit next year. Hope I'm wrong on him and hope @JosephCis also wrong... I don't see any sign he's been worth 26M last year.

I'm not "confusing" anything. They both speak to value and I told you where who I was citing. You're picking players who were traded because they demanded a trade on bad teams or had character concerns, large contracts. Chase Claypool was traded for a 2nd. Davante Adams was traded for a 1st. George Pickens is not the closest to Watson... Pickens was a nightmare in lock room for the Steelers. I don't recall Watson posting "free me" two years before a hypothetical trade(I also didn't cite Watson). You're conflating players with a WHOLE lot of other issues. The Raiders were terrible and Adams was expensive. Mike Williams? He was on a 2-7 Jets team that was trading everyone, Williams in 9 games that year had 12 receptions... and they got a 5th for him. I don't think those examples show anything.

Who got caught up! Literally everyone in this thread mocked the trade!

I don't think the draft is going to add anywhere near 10M(or even 7M) this year. The 2nd rd pick is a 1.6-1.7M cap hit. Even there, you're not just adding a new 1.7M, it's only ~600K added to the cap if you're replacing a player with just 1 year experiance. Once you get to the later rounds, it's only a few hundred K. In total I think the draft is only going to add 2-3M total. I do think Walker's paltry deal with the Panthers makes another similar signing possible. They were very clearly trying to ensure they'd get the maximum of 4 comp picks. Signing a FA who hasn't been released is basically like giving up a 6th rd pick at this point for Rasheed's pick. I'm sure they'd do that. Cam Jordan's very good vs the run. I think his 10 sacks were a little deceptive last year, but still a very good player. Also only 2 games missed. I don't see us going after Decker. It sounds like they like Morgan at LT, they thought he was a better LT last year, but needed to constantly be plugging holes at OG, RT. That's why I'd look at Zietler or someone on a one year deal. Zach Tom coming off a torn patellar tendon is terrifying. That's an injury that players can be slow to recover from. Zietler can still play OG at a reasonably high level, Benton looks more like a future RT than OG. I don't think much of Stackhouse, but Brinson looked really solid last year in limited snaps and seems to fit Gannon's scheme well. I'd bring back Treyvon Diggs, assuming he'll come back for ~5M for a year and look to add to the IOL.

Wick... Reed OR Watson? I guess that depends on what you consider "value" but I think a 2nd is pretty much the floor. The 2nd and 4th I was using Andy Herman's suggestions. But you did just see the deal that Romeo Doubs signed, right? He doesn't have a fraction of the impact that Christian Watson does. Or Alec Pierce. Compare his impact to that of Watson's(even with the missed time).

I guess I don't get why they're doing this when a guy SHOULD probably be playing a year in AAA yet. Is this more like a 7 year deal with 2 TOs and... then you get into the whole 2027 lock out. It's just a weird time for me, but, again, I'm such a fan of these moves that I'm not going to question it too much.

It makes having a NT, a true NT more important. Hargroves an be that guy, but he didn't like the way he was used in Minnesota last year. He wants to rush the QB and be allowed to get up field. I like the idea of being able to use Parsons in different ways. Also, someone like Collin Oliver... there was a whole lot of excitement around him the year before he got drafted. That could help him quite a bit... although in some schemes the edge has more responsibility as they have to set the edge where as DEs don't always have to in a 4-3, the Will or Sam does. The Dime defense... my guess would be it'd skew toward more big nickel with McKinney, Williams, Bullard MAYBE Oladapo or maybe just 3 Corners on the field with Cooper. I think we're going to have a good defense, but it'll come down to Parsons getting back to 100%, Wyatt... both getting back to 100% and playing like he was early last year, Hargroves being closer to how he played when Gannon was last year his DC and LVN building off last year. If we're not dominating with our 4 man front... there are going to be a LOT of Joe Barry references. And while I despised Joe Barry, I do think if you gave him Parsons, developed Wyatt, Hargroves and then the fliars that are Karl Brooks, LVN, Sorrell, Oliver and whoever else we sign, he'd have been fine. I'm REALLY hoping we're in on Calais Campbell. I love a front of Parsons, Wyatt, Campbell and then LVN. Until the big man stops having elite seasons, no reason to stop believing.

Keith Law studies them... I'm not sure how good he is... but he does. 34 pounds IS a lot. You can swing 5-10 pounds based on when you weigh in, what you've done. Your age... 17-18-19, you naturally fill out. I'm very glad they didn't say 34 pounds of muscle. I hear things like that and I roll my eyes. Nobody has added 34 pounds of muscle. You add 15 in a FULL year when going through puberty and you're an outlier. But you can still fill out. No picture of him that I've seen has looked the last bit pudgy. He's got a thick based and rear... which is good(or not bad). And he still looked... quick. I didn't see any bad weight. I also didn't have those old fat calipers we used every year of HS and College to do our body fat, but... I think he'll be fine. 34 more pounds and... I'd be a little concerned with have a future DH, but for the time being, looks like he's just developing.

What writing though? A year ago, he was a sub 700 OPS 2B with elite defense. I would suggest the Brewers would have been every bit as reticent to extend Turang as Turang. I've been driving the Turang Bandwagon for years. I love the guy, I'd love to see him extended. I'm not sure I buy the power, but I think he's just a Molitor type "Ignitor" for this team+the defense. Made can play 3rd, Pena can play CF. Jett Williams can... be a super utility player. Or we can let Turang leave in 2-3 years via trade. That's always a balancing act. This Pratt move is... really genuinely confusing to me, but not in a bad way. Just in the sense... I don't get why you do this when he's in AAA. Is it because they're worried he's about to go off? Do they have some plan for Ortiz if he starts out hitting well(I would be opposed to that).

Well... this move here is different than any organization. We're giving a player an extension before they're even MLB ready. That's a pretty strange move. I thought we'd keep Pratt in AAA all year long unless he forced the issue... and then Made would have been the player I'd have thought they'd extend IF they would have made a contract like this. Though I wasn't even considering this.

Yeah, he was also constantly behind in the count. The pitch to Montgomery was almost a get me over FB. 94 MPH sinker that... didn't sink IIRC. Yesterday was a bad outing, but I'm not going off the results. Skenes went 2/3rds. It's the stuff... which I think we're in agreement. The upside is clearly there. He needs to refine it, but I'd really rather have the young arms we have than a Quintana as the #3/4 arm. And he's really the #4/5 with Woody throwing 5th.

He'd have been in my top 15 guesses, but near the bottom! You usually don't extend a guy who... isn't really ready to play at the MLB level! I mean, I think he could give you what Ortiz did last year(mostly)... but this type of deal? What the hell, I'm all for extending as many young players as possible. I honestly think if you sign as many young players as you can to these types of deals, even if you get a few who don't live up to their potential, you still come out on top... I mean, if it's reasonable. I think Pratt's floor is a very good defensive SS/3B who can hit for some power and put up a ~700 OPS. That's a fairly negative outlook, but... that's worth this deal. I doubt the Brewers believe that's the player he's going to be. (By the way, a player I forgot was Quinn Priester... I wouldn't be shocked to see him extended for ~6/45+2 TO and some incentives based on IP and... maybe CY Voting, top 10-15).

Well.... the REAL icing would have been if he was still in the system! I hated that trade, but the ensuing two years kinda vindicated that move(not that Frankie Montas was a resounding success or two games is proof of anything). A RHed power bat who can play CF/RF... would certainly be nice to have, though I don't expect that type of foresight from Marty McFly's Baseball Almanac. Maybe a bat we can look at later in the year when he comes back down to Earth a bit? One area we're not deep would be RHed OFers who can hit for power. Or maybe he just has a really nice story to start the year. He was certainly boom or bust. I thought it'd take 1000 PAs... but I also didn't think he'd be as bad as he was early on. He wasn't playable even at AAA until last year with the Marlins. It'll be interesting to see which way he'll go from here. Can he become a viable power threat or just a flash in the pan.

They're... talented. They're not a well run team and they don't have the culture yet, but the talent they have? I've said that's at team I'd love target later this year(or earlier). That reliever Taylor... he did us some favors by not just throwing 102 in the upper half of the zone and asking us to hit it. Dominguez is a good pitcher, but... I just think we'd make him better, and Hicks, his ball moves to much, it just feels like small tweaks. Still, certainly not the Dodgers, but power arms, good young players. They're a team I think could win 75 games if they have the right staff and could get these pitchers on track. -But, more importantly, I don't care what Sproat's actual results were today. He looked like he's got the stuff to be a top of the rotation type arm. A #2 or... even an ace. He gets good movement. If he can just get ahead in the count... I think he could be a really good arm this year. I'm feeling a LOT better about that Peralta trade after today... which I realize is counterintuitive and I felt good about it to begin with, but I'm wondering who was the priority from the Brewers side, Sproat or Williams?

Turang if you can get a reasonable Marte-esque type extension(not quite Marte given Marte was closer to FA, but 7/90+2 TOs... maybe). Misi- I'd 100% do right now. 8 years 100M 2 TOs for 25M per. Yeah, I know he's a pitcher... and I'd still do it. People use deGrom as the "what if" in terms of healthy. Look at his first 8 years. Made- Mis is 1A, Made is 1-1- I'd give him a Chourio type extension... though I imagine it'd be more expensive. Maybe 8/80+2 TO at 20M with a 10M buyout and MVP, incentives, give him the chance to earn 8/100. Contreras-I'd float a 5 year 75M extension... but I think we're too close to FA for that to be viable. Frelick would be a contingency plan as I don't think Turang or Mis will sign. American players are less likely to... though with a pitcher like Mis, still gotta try IMO. He looks like he's just going to keep getting better. Ultimately, I suspect Made will be the most likely and we're too late on Contreras and probably on Turang. I'm also just not afraid to pay a guy into his 30s. I'm afraid to pay him into his mid 30s or late 30s, but 32-33? Not at all a concern. Uribe-I'd go 8/40+2 TOs at 12M AAV.

It is. And I thought Sproat was a... similar pitcher to a young Burnes. He was a little too similar to 2019 Burnes(in ONE start) but I just have absolute faith these guys will figure it out. Whichrowski, Kuehner, Hardin. And they're probably not in the top 10 yet in terms of starting pitching options. Still, I'd love to see a 1st rd pick on a high upside prep arm.

Yeah... but he's also got the prototype of pretty much every X WR you're looking for. I think the way he's trending, they may not get a chance to take him and if they do, it's likely only one(though maybe 2). You'd also really have to look at the WRs and figure out which one you're going to move. If you draft another WR, you're probably going to have to lose one. - Watson- I think he's in their long term plans as a focal point of the offense. Golden- We're not getting a 1 for him, so you'd be selling low. Reed- I guess a 2nd would be wise. Especially as the Brewers are likely to be in the FA market next year and thus less worried about pick comp, but without Doubs, I think Reed is a big loss. Wicks- Still hasn't broken through, but a really nice #4. Willing blocker. But pending FA. Maybe a 4th? Williams- 2nd year player. KR specialist, looked pretty good in contested catch catch situations(relative for a rookie). Sky Moore-Not really like the Hardman situation from last year. They gave him 1M in GTD money. If they like the kid... think he's a #1 or can play on the outside, even with the OL/DT/CB needs, they should do it. But in that scenario, Reed or Wicks are probably going to get traded. He does look like a tank though.

Yes. If a player was lost for the season, it would make Brewers fans feel much worse. But... he wasn't. Wasn't he hit in a STing game? Also, did someone say that they needed to play for their home nations to "motivate them to play well for their MLB employer?" Conversely, 1-I don't think you CAN tell a player they can't participate. 2-You start saying your players are off-limits and you're going to deal with more hard feelings. 3-Most important... again, they weren't lost for the season. Probably a good idea to remember their actual human beings who take a great deal of pride playing for their National teams... and reducing them entirely to "assets," in EVERY context, especially a young player you signed to be the cornerstone of the next decade, again, it probably wouldn't reflect well on the Brewers.

Quero's pop times were back in the 1.80s-1.90, right? Maybe not quite the plus-plus arm, but back to being a viable starting catcher even if he's a below average hitter overall. We're spoiled with Contreras, even with a "down year," but Contreras is in that really bad spot in terms of roster management. Set to become a FA after what is looking like it could be a truncated 2027 season which should suppress his value. Given a catchers learning curve, I could see them going with Contreras and Quero next year, then taking the comp pick or dealing him if.... they magically play a full season. I'd guess Pratt would still be the primary SS. I'd want to see him at 3B over 2B if we're giving Jett Williams does seem closer and more likely, but with 3B prospects, guys they'll at least give playing time to like Adams, 2B seems more likely. I'd love to see Fischer, Burke force their way to AAA. I'd keep Made in AA all year in all likely scenarios, even one in which he hits ~.315/.400 with power and then I'd be more than happy to lock him up ala Chourio before '27, but that's jumping the gun a bit.

It was. TV deals are going to go up a lot. Either in the near term when networks can renegotiate prior to the NFL's opt out(IIRC after the '28 season) or... they do it now which it sounds as though they'll start doing. The 500M I.... just came up with on real rough numbers. It's more likely it'd be rolled out a bit more slowly with incremental jumps(though, we just went up 22M). The NBA somehow saw their cap projections go down... which I don't recall the last time that happened outside of Covid. I do think it's pretty fair to say it makes more sense to extend the players they're likely to extend now. Watson, Kraft, Wyatt(IDL are... as difficult to find as nearly any other position) and...I'm forgetting someone(not Reed, but I'd probably try and extend Reed also). Of course this is hardly a secret and the players know that. That's likely why Seattle extended JSN with 2 years left on his deal and gave him 4/168.4 in new money with 120M GTD.

I don't like it either... but I'm just a full on hoarder when it comes to these guys. If they feel he's worth the cost(or Hunt lacks value) I guess I'll defer. I'd love it to be and I'm not kidding, but Hicks. I said this a few days ago, but he's the type of guy I'd be watching. He's a guy who I believe is being paid already by Boston for the next couple years(~8M of the 25M remaining). You'd need CHW to pick up probably the same, but I'd trust the staff to get him right. I'd prefer and target a guy who... if you hit on, you hit big. Hicks is just so nasty and... erratic. Lawrence from Col and...IDK, Grant Taylor from the CHW are two other arms... but not exactly a pressing need. We kept Megill and Uribe, I like how Sproat looks. We've got others who depth and... a LOT of talent. Today made it look moot, but I agree and hope they can get one more RH power arm to come out of the pen.

I'd love to see them go after another high leverage RHP. Jordan Hicks and Seranthony Dominguez are two guys... but gotta let some time play out. It'd be great if you could get a great start from a Black, Boeve, Wilken, Adams... get some clarity and maybe trade them a bat with decent upside. I wouldn't trade Bitonti, but that'd probably be fair if they were to pay 5M of each deal. That'd be 5M per for Dominguez and then the White Sox owe Hicks 17M over the next 2 years. Maybe it 5M the White Sox cover there as well and it's 2 years 12M. I suspect we'll go out and get a RH Relief earlier than later this year. We see an issue and address it.

By the time the NFL is done with their next wave of TV contracts, none of these deals are going to be a disaster waiting to happen. Doubs deal will likely have bigger cap implications the next two years than a Watson extension will have the two years after his extension... which was created with a dummy bonus during the void years and dummby base salaries specifically so they COULD extend him to a deal for ~30M a year(which they can't go much over). He had hamstring issues early on, he(and Stokes) when to Madison to deal with that and he hasn't since. He hasn't had the hamstring injuries taking him out. He had an ACL, but unless there is something else structural with the knee, that shouldn't be a big deal, and we know can happen to any player at any time. He's also just been way too important to this offense. Two years into his extension deal, the cap is... almost certainly going to be... a LOT higher. I think you'll see Kraft, Wyatt, Watson, maybe Reed, all extended over the next 6 months and Watson is probably going to be 4/120 and I'd guess his SB is lower. Also, the Packers are the ones who want the 4 year deal. If they insist on a 2 year deal... it's just going to be a battle over GTD money and they probably end up paying him close to the same in GTD money. 2 year extension? Watson's camp is going to want more money, they're not going to just settle for a prorated % of that.

I would have agreed with what they'd actually would do, but I disagree with them doing it. Bringing Banks back... and even worse, they restructured. Restructure literally anyone else. You could have got out of that deal after this year at least. If you were willing to pay 20M for a 1 year of a below average OG. Now you're paying him 26M next year in dead money if you move on. Vera Tucker is worth twice Banks if healthy and since they both have health risks... I'd take that health risk. Alijah Vera-Tucker would have been the guy I'd have signed... if we were willing to take the injury risk. He's had two triceps and an Achilles that's... kinda flukey, but he has been injury prone. But he also got paid commensurate with that injury risk. Hobbs was just a bad signing from the jump. A bad fit on this defense. I was never comfortable with playing a bunch of slot Corners outside... and their hope that Hobbs would reverse all his career trends... didn't exactly play out. Sure, he had bad luck with injuries, but he was not good when he was on the field...except when he was in the slot(when he was merely adequate). I think keeping Banks just compounded their mistake. I think from any number of veterans or... again, Vera Tucker, an AP talent who got a really affordable deal with so much of his deal tied to his playing time(plus, his injuries, two torn triceps and an Achilles are a bit fluky, but he is elite when healthy). You could have signed AVT and a Teller, Zietler, Bitonio and the two of them are likely less in cap hits the next two years than Banks. Zietler is still an elite pass blocker. You could have signed Linderbaum. That would have made more sense. You will pay more, sadly, not THAT much more, but you get a cornerstone OL. Tom and Linerbaum. I would have said a BIG part of the reason they wanted to hold on to him and not go into the FA market is because they only had a couple cracks at FAs. You have 6 FAs who are signing elsewhere, you can get 4 comp picks, you re-signed Rhyan, now you signed a top of the market FA and you wipe out at least a 4th next year(maybe a 3 depdning on how Willis, Doubs or Walker play or how much). With the NFL VERY possibly reworking their TV deal and going from ~10B to ~25B(That's expected if it's done soon) that cap is going to explode. It's already exploding. It'll be 330 next year without the new TV deal. WITH a new TV deal? It's going to completely change the league. And the Packers should be proactive and extend Watson(30M AAV), Kraft(~18-20M)... maybe Wyatt(likely a 17M AAV, he's making ~13 this year) and I'd consider Reed if you can get it done for an extension of 4/80. I'd get the deals done as early as possible as they're just going to all get more expensive. If the TV deal doesn't get done this year, it gets done after 2028 when the NFL opts out and then it's going to be... a much bigger number. If the NBA is getting 7B a year, the NFL is worth... close to 400% more just from rating, ad revenue. So the cap is set to truly sky rocket, probably exceeding 500M by the time Parsons deal is up and it could be much sooner than the actual opt out. But hey, hope I'm wrong and Banks can play well. I also appreciate the calculus that goes into free agency as the Packers will had 5 extra 3rd-5th rd picks next year(Gary's trade was... a masterstroke by Gutey). Love Harvgraves. He excelled when playing under Gannon. Woolen makes absolutely no sense to me, not with Leo Chenal on the market(though again, comp pick) or Lloyd who got a very reasonable deal. St. Juste is a great deal. I'm pretty sure they'd have signed Riq Woolen if he'd have taken 15M over 4 years. Don't think the Packers wanted to give him just 1 year at 15M. And he could not have picked a better fit. Mitchell, Cooper DeJean, Jordan Davis and... presumably Jalen Carter... assuming these wild rumors don't amount to anything. They had to bring back Rhyan and they can get out of that cheap. Skyy Moore finally gives them a return man. He and Savion on KR, but PR is... a big upgrade. We had our #2 WR as our leading PR last year. Packers still have the money or mechanism to create the money for another big signing, but I wouldn't expect anything significant until after the draft when the comp pick formula doesn't matter or MAYBE we add another DL like Campbell. I know he's 40, but I've been pleading for him for about 6 years now. He would be our best DL if he plays like last year, he's cheap and just genuinely a good dude and leader. I don't care if he's 40. I wouldn't be a 4 yeaer deal. I think LaFleur is a REALLY good coach, but we’re going to find out this year. This is a brutal off-season for the Packers just in terms of cohesion. They has lost a lot of important coaches and they have a lot of turnover, they don’t have a 1st and they had needs on the OL and DL coming into it.... not to mention our CB room is still very bad.... but a great DL, Parsons, Wyatt, Hargraves, maybe Campbell, LVN if he takes another step, that makes it passable. Beyond that, I’d expect him to be active on the trade market after the draft and next season with the extra picks they'll have.