MNBrew

I would guess that Hoffman sees the potential of this team and knows that... - the Brewers are still a better team than the Padres have been this year, and that - it wouldn't take too many personnel changes (assuming they're the "right" ones) to make this team a lot better.

Whether or not Suppan's pitching "as expected," he's just flat-out terrible. In the event that he's still on the Brewers' roster (or DL) by the All-Star break AND pitching anything like he has most of this year, I hope they'd DFA him and cut their losses (metaphorically and literally) if no other team would pick him up. Heck, if he's still this bad by then and if it came down to it, it's worth paying him NOT to pitch.

The Felix Hernandez thing was a report of something Boston reportedly offered to Seattle before the trading deadline. Thus, none of those players had been moved at the time the offer was allegedly made. Obviously some were moved shortly afterward since the Martinez deal (and whatever else) happened prior to August 1st. Anyway, that's why I started with Ellsbury, Papelbon, Lester, & Bard. Serious talent for elite talent + a proven former All-Star SS (the hole on their roster Boston still can't fill with a player of the status they seem to prefer). It's not just for Prince that I put this down, but including Hardy in the deal, too. You don't just take a couple top prospects for one of the game's certified elite sluggers. You get a king's ransom. If Boston's serious about getting Prince, they need to pony up. There's absolutely nothing otherwise pushing Melvin to have to trade Prince this winter. Granted, the holes on the Brewers' roster are obvious and considerable, primarily on the pitching side. Something has to happen or this year's sore spot becomes next year's ugly spot all over again. That's why this discussion is started in the first place. If Fielder would seriously entertain staying in Milwaukee for another handful of years and sign on for that early, then maybe this is all a moot discussion. The early analysis doesn't suggest that he'll agree to take the key to the Brewers' Brinks truck, though (thank you, Scott Boras).

I hate the prospect of giving up such amazing talent and production like Fielder. However, there's fantasy & reality. With Boras as his agent, Fielder staying in Milwaukee long-term is more the former than the latter. This is a good thread, and it really got me thinking about a prominent thread from last winter, the point of which was to really maximize value & opportunity in the return. To that end, I wonder just how much of a haul Melvin could get from Boston for Fielder AND Hardy. Boston can afford what Fielder will cost -- and you'd figure they'd pay it so the Yankees don't land him away from them. Boston has a stable of talent to draw from. If you could get Ellsbury, Papelbon (to start or close), Lester, & Bard, I'd think DM would have to seriously consider that package. 3 good pitchers and a speedy, good-hitting, young CF for an All-Star SS (one blah year removed from 2 very solid years) and an elite, 25-year-old, stud power hitter extraordinaire seems the sort of package worth demanding. Boston could just pick up Wagner's option if he proves solid (I read the keep Wagner-trade JP notion somewhere.) How would this affect the Crew? - CF becomes Ellsbury instead of Cameron (OR, at the craziest, Hart can be moved an Cameron or Ellsbury can play RF). - 3B and 1B can be covered between the Gamel-McGehee-Lopez-Heether-Counsell collection. - By moving JP back to the rotation, you can still easily justify keeping Hoffman, thus keeping the back of the bullpen extremely strong. - Talent infusion into the rotation is considerable. No more Mike Burns. Just having fun with the idea. But to trade Fielder, DM would have to aim extremely high -- and he'd have absolutely every right to do so.

Cardinals, the AL, Japan, Tibet, Antarctica, Saturn -- I don't really care. I just want his putrid pitching and his crippling contract somewhere other than Milwaukee ASAP.

Waive Suppan! Waive Suppan! Waive Suppan! PLEASE! Maybe we can bribe the Cardinals to take him back in exchange for the Brewers paying most of his contract, a so-so A-ball lefty, and a couple bricks from Old Busch. [edit: overdone punctuation (!!!!!!) --1992]

Cy Young. Ty Cobb. Walter Johnson. Babe Ruth. Jackie Robinson. Satchell Paige (great thought, H5). Willie Mays. Mickey Mantle. Stan Musial. Hank Aaron (and not just at the plate). Koufax & Drysdale. Ozzie Smith, esp. his Padres years (I remember well his Cardinals days). Roberto Clemente. The Seattle Pilots (yes, seriously). Andre Dawson as an Expo (esp. alongside Tim Raines). Nolan Ryan & Steve Carlton & Tom Seaver. Awesome question.

As long as the counting doesn't start 'til the 1st full day in the minors -- since Hardy spent the 1st part of the 12th as a Brewer -- then a recall on Sept. 1st preserves his service time. If the counting includes the 12th, then Aug. 31st is the 20th day and no FA possibility for J.J. until after 2011. Just so things don't get sticky and people don't start to get testy, I hope the Brewers recall in time NOT to lose this year as a full season of MLB service time. And even more strongly, I hope Hardy performs in such a way that justifies such a move. That would be in everyone's best interest, including getting J.J. back on track so he has greater value as a tradeable asset this winter.

Usually the media guide, a formerly annual purchase, has had that info. But I haven't bought a media guide in several years.

I can't figure why some on this site think Corporan should be the young catcher to make next year's team should Kendall or Rivera not be returning. Unless they figure Salome has to be playing everyday in AAA next year, there's no reason Corporan should ever leapfrog Salome onto the Brewers' active roster for the long term. Corporan's hitting .171 in AAA, which is only 118 points lower than Angel.

Okay, I'll play, and with no trade/FA assumptions made except that Hardy likely will be the SS traded, not Escobar... IF: Fielder, Weeks, Escobar, Gamel; bench: McGehee, Counsell OF: Braun, Hart, Cameron; bench: Catalanotto, Gerut C: Rivera; bench: Salome Comments... - Position player-wise, we're not in bad shape, especially on the IF. - I like Lopez a lot and it'd be ideal to find a way for him to fit next year, too. - Cameron & Kendall are great veteran clubhouse leaders. But their production doesn't justify the dollars relative to the most glaring needs on the club. So I think one won't be back and possibly both. If Cam's not back, the Bourgeois becomes a 5th OF candidate. SP: Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Suppan, Looper (and gosh, I hope it doesn't look like that next April) BP: Hoffman, Coffey, Weathers, DiFelice, Stetter, Villanueva, and.... Comments: - Gotta have a strong BP, & it's worth the jing to pick up Weathers' option & try to get Hoffman to stay. - McClung has a great arm but would be expendable as an asset someone else with no BP talent at all might need (MN? Their BP is very shallow.). - I sure hope there's enough new talent on the team so that the Dillard/Vargas/Smith/Burns/Colome types are all in AAA again next year along with more depth.

(and we had no choice but to put ourselves under this time pressure by DFAing Hall, because we needed both Iribarren and Bourgeois on the MLB roster NOW, not in three weeks...those two players were the key to our strategy for making a run at the playoffs.) http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif I still don't get what you think would've been gained by keeping Hall on the roster, or what you think the Brewers might've gotten in return if Hall had just gone through waivers. Hall's a swell guy and very athletic, but as someone said, he was as useful to the '09 Brewers as a paper weight. If every other GM hadn't figured that out, someone would've offered us something to take him off our hands some time ago -- probably back when he hadn't fully proven that he was never going to improve enough to matter in Milwaukee ever again. Jack Z. needed an IF and simply did DM a favor to give up an arm (of questionable merit) and minimal salary relief.

Wow. Bill Hall has stunk for the past 2.5 years and based on some of the posts in this thread, some folks still think his 2006 was only last year. I'd love to have gotten something of value for Hall, too. But he wasn't worth anything of value. No GM in their right mind was going to give up anything of value. The fact that Melvin got someone to take on $1.3M of Hall's contract when in a couple days no one would've had to pay anything is a move approaching brilliance.

I like Hart, but it'd be worth dangling him to a team like TB who has good SP depth and who seems to need more RF production. It would create a hole in RF, but there are multiple routes to take to fill that. Hardy-plus to Boston or Seattle -- teams w/ SS needs and good pitching talent/depth -- would seem to be worth exploring, too.

Sorry, but you lost me in the sentence fragments.

Now that it's August, you're only going to get A-ball prospects or roster/contract dung in return. Hoffman's an All-Star and worth much more. Suggesting a trade of Hoffman now is a logical as the notion that August is the time to trade Hardy, too. You couldn't pick a worse time to limit your return on trading your most worthwhile assets.

Great topic & very well thought out, nate82! - Signing CC would've been huge but not enough to overcome the abominations & gross underperforming comprising our '09 season (rotation!). - I'd still have preferred Cabrera over Cameron, mainly for the additional payroll flexibility (even with Igawa &/or offsetting cash factored in, had Melvin let Cashman totally screw the Brewers over in that deal). - Getting Hoffman was a coup and I hope he's our closer in 2010, too. - After the top couple studs, most of the best FA pitchers in a limited pool were of the uber-veteran types (Smoltz, Moyer, Johnson) or injury questions (Sheets, Penny, etc.). Melvin tried for pretty much any of them that made sense. He didn't land any. But at least he didn't overpay for what he did get (Looper). Incidentally, re-signing Coffey was smart. So was NOT re-signing Shouse. The McGehee waiver claim was classic, brilliant DM nugget-mining. As painful & futile as this year is turning out (thanks a lot, starting pitchers!), in the long run I think it still may help to have gone through it. To truly be built to be an annual playoff contender, it's going to take a better (mainly pitching-wise) and different roster to get there. Some position player decisions obviously need to be made. However, it's mainly just the pitching that needs a lot of help -- and even then, it's primarily the rotation.

Given the pre-season hype, as well as the love they got over the winter, at this point I'd have to say the Cubs. And I say that with a huge smile of satisfaction. On the Brewers, I'd say Villanueva among the pitchers and Hardy among position players. Hall was this bad last year and Hart's season-ending slump last year makes this year's production not a complete surprise. Villanueva has said since ST that he hasn't felt right, and for the most part his results corroborate that.

They haven't actually eaten the contract yet. That would officially come at the end of the 10-day DFA deadline, and only if he's not traded. If he's traded within the 10 days, the equivalent of eating the contract would be sending cash to the trade partner to offset some or all of the money owed Hall. That said, by DFA'ing him, the Brewers have indeed shown that they've essentially made the decision to pay Hall not to play for them.

Expecting anyone to give up anything of even marginal value for Bill Hall would seem to have to be predicated on the Brewers still picking up pretty much all of Hall's contract.

If the Reds would actually do Hall-for-Harang straight up, then the Brewers would be free to drop Jeff Suppan's contract instead of Hall's. It'd be a couple million more (remainder of this year + all of next year), but it'd be a definite case of addition by subtraction.

Today's "Notes" column on the JSOnline reveals that John Axford won't be a September callup: Ash said the Brewers will lose several minor-leaguers Sept. 1 to the Baseball World Cup in Europe. Second baseman Brett Lawrie, a first-round pick in 2008, will play for Canada, along with relievers Jim Henderson and John Axford and outfielder Adam Stern.

You're right, 1e Corbeau. But your second point was about service time actually gained when in the minors. That's a different issue than spending days on the active roster that don't count on toward service time, which, unless there's something we all don't know about, cannot happen. And Young Geezy, you're right about Rivera typically swinging the bat well when he gets the chance -- last year and this week. The rest of 2009 that hasn't held quite so true. His chances were quite limited, to be sure, but he really wasn't hitting for beans until the past few days.

I don't know if you're confusing these 2 things, but service time and "rookie" status are two different things. Every day on the roster is a day of service time. How could a September call-up's day on the roster possibly be different than that of a veteran? It's not. However, rookie status is retained by not exceeding a certain number of at-bats or innings pitched -- I believe until a decent number of days' service time on the active roster is attained. I don't remember those particulars (45 ABs rings a bell, though) and am too lazy tonight to look them up.

Salome already has ML service time -- last September. If they brought him up last year, they'd almost certainly do so this year. They need to see what they have, which they really didn't get to in ST, last year's Fall League, and even somewhat last September, if memory serves. Heether's playing well in AAA, but someone has to get bumped off the 40-man for him to come up. Fairly certain callups would seem to include: Hardy or Escobar (whoever's still in AAA on 8/31) Gamel Salome Dilllard Chris Smith As well, I'd think any DL activations might wait 'til then, too, depending on how things are going.