Raw Biz

They are looking for more than the package we received for Greinke. I don't know if Maldy, Schafer/Aoki, Thornburg comes even close to that. edit: Thornburg would be the prize in that package obviously but I don't know if he's considered the same type of prize as Segura. And though Maldy has been great this year, I trust his minor-league numbers better so he's probably closer to the all defense/little offense type of catcher. Schafer is probably a 4th OF and Aoki is 30. And honestly, I'm not even sure I'd want Shields if they've do that trade. Thornburg is the type of young, cheap, long-term controlled players we should be seeking. Shields has 2 more options remaining sure but other than last year, he's been a 3/4 type guy and relatively expensive.

Not sure who Zach is but they did move Zack. Still not sure how fans keep making these mistakes.

That's immediately what comes to mind. And keep in mind, these stats aren't gospel. Sure there are flaws but they are still useful in general comparison terms.

I would like to trade Hart too but I'd wait until the offseason. I think Hart could bring a really good package and I don't think LAD would have the best. Honestly, if they were willing to part with Lee & Gould for Lowrie, I would think we could get at least Lee for ARam. I don't think Morris will be ready until 2014 so I'd trade ARam now and see what Green can do with some consistent PT. Then in the offseason you can ship out Hart and maybe get a 3B back if Green isn't up to par. Then hopefully Gamel is ready to go at 1B again in ST.

HiAndTight, I'm really getting sick of your condescending posts. That's fine if you disagree with me but it seems like you just have to mention my name in every post. You called me out in 2 separate threads on things that I didn't even say. One in which you basically twisted my words into something false and another where you attributed an entire conversation to me that was actually with another poster. I called you out on it and you didn't even have the decency to apologize. And now you're asking me to borrow my crystal ball, really? Obviously almost everything posted here is just people's opinions. Yes, I think the Brewers would likely lose their first matchup but that's just my opinion. There's no need to get condescending because I think differently than you. You say that it doesn't matter what the team has done so far, only what they are capable of doing. I agree, on paper, that this could be a good team. The offense is fine and the starting pitching has been good (I'm a huge Fiers fan). Yes we'll be getting Lucroy back and possibly Marcum. But the bullpen has been horrible and I don't see them snapping out of it. I think that is a major weakness, especially in the playoffs. There's even a thread about how the BP has basically been the downfall this year so I'm not alone in that thought. As for the whole wanting to lose to sell Greinke thing, yes I am hoping for losses. As others have said, it's about weighing the options. Personally, I would much rather try to trade for impact talent now (and yes I believe eventually someone will give it up to get Greinke) than rest my hopes on the slim chance that the Brewers make the playoffs. As I've said, to me it's not about just getting in but getting far. I honestly would like to know what you think their chances of making the playoffs are. Statistically, they probably have like a 5% shot now. I don't know how even the most optimistic fan could put their chances at more than 25%, seeing as how they are 7.5 back of the division. I don't put a lot of faith in the WC because it's basically just a one-game playoff to see who gets in. I think Monty, Stevo (Oldcity), and PEM all understand where I'm coming from here. You weigh the risk/reward of the slim chance of making the playoffs vs whatever return Greinke would bring back.

This isn't like football where you can target positions of need. You should almost always be targeting the best player available. Since you said Texas has the best farm system, thats who you probably want to deal with first. And some prospects take longer than others to reach the bigs, other trades can happen, there's FA signings, etc. so you don't really know what the makeup of the team will be. If Melvin traded ARam, we would likely need a 3B (unless you go with Green) so Olt would fit nicely there (I think Texas is nuts if they think they won't have to give up Olt in a deal for Greinke/Hamels). Disagree entirely. You don't target positions of need in the draft, because those players aren't going to be in the majors for like five years, so it makes no sense. You absolutely target positions of need for prospects in AA/AAA who you want to contribute sometime in the following year. In that case it's exactly like football, you know what holes you have for the next 2-3 seasons. I was speaking more in terms of don't just limit yourself to certain positions just because you have a need there. In other words, if someone were to offer an A-/B+ prospect at 2B or 3B for example who's at High A, you don't turn that down for a B/B- SS prospect in AAA, just because he's closer to the majors and at a position of need. All else being equal, sure you want a guy closest to the majors at a position of need. I would love to get an impact SS. I would totally take Segura/Richard like in your original offer. I actually said that was my 2nd or 3rd overall favorite package a few pages past. I am basically just saying to not pigeon-hole yourself into set positions immediately and be open to the best talent available, which at this point would seemingly come from Texas because of the strength of their system.

No almost about it for me. I told myself before this stretch that unless they went 8-1 or 9-0, I absolutely want them selling. I'm rooting against them to protect the FO from themselves. Ditto. I understand how it would look to the "casual fan" if they traded away Greinke after sweeping or taking 2 of 3 so I hope they lose. If most fans understood how important it is to be constantly cycling talent into the organization, I don't think there would be a problem with selling even if they win a little. Unfortunately, most people are only fixated on the present and I bet the jsonline posters would be going crazy if they traded Greinke after winning 2 of 3, even though this team would likely lose the 1st round/play-in game if they even managed to squeak in.

This isn't like football where you can target positions of need. You should almost always be targeting the best player available. Since you said Texas has the best farm system, thats who you probably want to deal with first. And some prospects take longer than others to reach the bigs, other trades can happen, there's FA signings, etc. so you don't really know what the makeup of the team will be. If Melvin traded ARam, we would likely need a 3B (unless you go with Green) so Olt would fit nicely there (I think Texas is nuts if they think they won't have to give up Olt in a deal for Greinke/Hamels).

I see nothing embarrassing about that, especially in 1989. I saw Poison open for KISS in 04 I believe.

I have no problem with optimism. In fact, I would love for the Brewers to keep winning. However, I still want Greinke, KRod, and anyone else with value and/or expiring contracts shipped out for talent instead of losing them for basically nothing at the end of the year. So trade those guys first to build for the future and then try to keep winning. After all, they've got a winning record without Greinke since Friday, maybe they can keep it going when he's gone.

I know the big markets would hate this but I wonder if they could've done something where only a certain number of teams get comp picks. Like a certain number of the smallest markets/revenue teams could receive the comp picks of a team if a Type A/B FA signed with one of the biggest market/revenue teams. If it was small market to small market, big market to big market, or big market to small market, then nothing would happen. And then still keep what they have now where anybody tendered and turned down would receive a comp pick if they've been with the team all year. That way, everybody losing a FA could still get picks if they wanted, big markets could lose picks by signing away players from small markets, and small markets could get extra picks if they lost stud guys to the big markets.

Why do you say that? The Angels probably match up the best behind the Rangers in terms of quality/position of prospects and actually showing interest in Greinke. Obviously the Rangers are number 1 but I think the Angels are a solid 2nd and after that, everyone drops off. The Braves basically have only pitching (and some are struggling mightily this year), the Tigers have Turner and Castellanos (who they really don't wanna trade), and the Orioles have Schoop after not wanting to part with Machado/Bundy. I would be all over that deal. I'd actually prefer both Cowart and Segura and leave out Morales (as he's almost 30 and not sure if he's fully recovered from his devastating injury). But if that was the offer, I'm on it.

KISS Psycho Circus tour in 98.

Dude, you keep saying/attributing stuff to me that I never said. This is part of the reason why I can't take you seriously. You have these long-winded posts that repeat the same stuff over and over. And you post like 4 times in a row, just clogging up the boards. Think about what you want to say and try to say it in as few words as possible, without repeating the same statement multiple times. Second, you can respond to individual statements all in the same post, not having to start a new post for each. Finally, if you're going to call someone out, make sure that A) you're not making something up that the person never said and B) you're not attributing someone else's statement to a different person. First you said I thought the ARam contract was terrible and that I constantly bemoaned it. I never said that, I made one statement that it would be nice to unload the contract now that it doesn't seem like we will contend next year. And that contract is basically market value, BTW. And second, it was DollarBill who made the statement about zero value. I don't even think he was trying to put you down with that statement and you just didn't understand what he was trying to say. There was also no reason to bring that statement up since it added nothing to your point. Its almost as if you're begging for someone to pick a fight with you when you bring their name up in that context, especially if it has nothing to do with the discussion.

Wow that pitching would likely be very bad in real life, at least for the next year or two. I could probably dominate with it in a video game though.

I'm pretty sure there is a lottery for this pick as well. I'm not sure if its every remaining team, every remaining team that hasn't surrendered a pick, or something else. But I'm pretty sure this pick is lotto-ed as well. Disregard my post, I was thinking of the pick forfeited for going over budget during the draft.

Hey splitter In addition to this, what happens when a team signs an FA to the draft pick they forfeit? If it doesn't go to the team that lost the FA, does it go into the lottery or just get wiped out? I'm pretty sure there is a lottery for this pick as well. I'm not sure if its every remaining team, every remaining team that hasn't surrendered a pick, or something else. But I'm pretty sure this pick is lotto-ed as well.

He's a 24 year old SS(just turned 24 at the end of April, so he'll start next season at 24) with blazing speed, and great range, and put up a .303/.353 career line in the minors, all for a contract you have constantly bemoaned as being a terrible one. Yet you want no part of him for that contract that...based on what you've said, sounds like you believe it is of negative value? Don't know what you're talking about bro, I don't think I ever said the ARam contract was terrible or that I didn't want any part of it. Its basically exactly market value. However, if the Brewers aren't going to be contending next year (and at this point I don't think they will), then they don't need to be paying market value at that price. As I've said, I would part with ARam for something decent but I wouldn't just give him away just to be rid of the contract. As for Gordon, I don't really care about blazing speed if you can't get on base. Yeah he had a .350 OBP in the minors but a lot of that is tied to his BA. If that BA drops, his OBP goes with it. A guy like Weeks, on the other hand, can bat under .200 but still have that OBP over .300. He has no power. And Gordon hasn't done much so far. I know he's still young but I just don't see it. A lot of times these toolsy speed guys never develop those other skills. As for his defense, he seems average to below-average to me. Would I take Gordon for ARam? Possibly. I just think they could do better because ARam actually has good value. He should still be a legit middle-of-the-order bat for the duration of his contract.

Exactly, I'm not understanding this. If they don't have to cover any portion of his contract, they are essentially "buying" whoever they trade for for the $3 million or whatever they've already paid to ARam. To be able to get some high-ceiling prospect for basically nothing would be great. I don't care about mediocre major league ready pitching.

I'd rather just deal with Texas then and get Olt and Perez. The key is young, CHEAP, LONG-TERM talent. Sure Upton is young and relatively cheap for his talent-level. But I don't think 3 years is long-term and he's still making more than $10mil/yr. We need pre-arby guys to round out the roster. Sure it might be nice financially to get rid of the ARam contract but I'd rather get the other talent first, then find a deal for ARam separately.

I agree you win with starting pitching. But that is why you must draft/develop and trade for it. Yes the Brewers haven't been able to do that in the past. But that doesn't mean they won't in the future. You don't trade young, cost-controlled pitching for already established, expensive guys with only 2 years left. If anything, they should be trading guys like Greinke, Weeks, Harts, etc. when their value is high, when their contracts are about to expire, and/or when they have replacements ready for young, impact pitching. And to go back to your original offer, I don't think that's enough to get Shields.

Can this be true, a guy with a .465 OBP and 36 doubles is worth 1 win a month over a replacement player, why the hell do teams pay $15 million + if the difference is this small. I don't believe your fact is correct. Because that averages to about a 7 WAR season, which is pretty darn good. According to Fangraphs, Votto's WAR last year was 6.9 and his MVP year 7.3. Obviously WAR isn't gospel but 1 win a month sounds about right.

Eh, I honestly don't really analyze characters that much when I watch a show. If it entertains me, that's usually good enough for me. Also, I find it hard to criticize a show after only 4 episodes. I think you can like a show after only a few but sometimes it takes a whole season for a show to really find its footing. I liked the pilot and didn't really like the 2nd show that much. But the 3rd was good and I really really liked the 4th, especially the ending.

My cousin's roommate's uncle's neighbor's dogsitter was eating at the same restaurant as Jon Daniels and he overheard a deal sending Kinsler, Olt, Odor, Perez, Ross, and Martin for Greinke, Weeks, and Hart.

Sorry but I'm sick of all this Lucroy to another position stuff. The guy has had a great year offensively. But its only been 151 PAs. He started off hot last year too and finished with a .703 OPS. There is no need to move him off catcher, as he provides a lot of value there with his bat and his average to above-average defense. If you move him to a corner position, he becomes below average offensively and would have to learn a defensive position he's never played professionally. Lucroy is not a .950 OPS guy. He's most likely somewhere in the .750 to .825 range. Also, catcher is a demanding position. The guy will need his days off. Having him catch 3 days a week and play 1B/RF on his days off won't give him much rest. Keep him at catcher and let him and Maldonado split time (ultimately something like 70-30 when he's fully rested). It's not like Lucroy's a Buster Posey, VMart, or even Mauer-type offensively that moving him is a good idea. And even Mauer at 1B isn't great because of his lack of power.