zzzmanwitz

He is risking not having $100+ Million. He could injure himself tomorrow and never be able to pitch again. Likely? No. But the chance is there. Its his life, he has the right to risk anything he wants. He trusts in his abilities and he will probably cash in on his risk.

Willie Mays and it isn't even close.

I am only giving reasons why it may happen. You seem to be saying that it WON'T happen, period.

I took that directly from my post that you were quoting. Here are a few more of my posts... I think my view has been pretty clear, you seem to think in very absolutes (as others have given you a hard time for). While I do not think the chances are great for him to ever pitch for the Brewers again, to rule it out entirely as you and a few others have done seems foolish given what we know (and more importantly, what we don't know).

.272/.380/.533/.912 in July. Not too much to complain about there.

I think you linked the same chat Mass.

"Do we really have any reason other than wishful thinking to believe that Greinke will not accept the highest bid if it comes from New York, Boston, etc?" Jonathan Lucroy was quoted as saying Greinke would not like to play in New York or Boston. Lucroy has known him personally for nearly 2 years. That is about 2 years longer than any of us have known him. He specifically said those two cities. Now, does that rule out a mid level team like a Detroit or Texas or LA Angels couldn't pony up some big bucks to sign him? Not at all. I am purely speaking of places where there is a definite difference in the type of media coverage there is (LA Dodgers, Chicago Cubs, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox). I agree that the Angels is a good spot for Greinke in terms of quality of team, ability to pay, and media relations. He is different from other big name FA because he has Social Anxiety Disorder. It is a documented fact. Of course Greinke wants to make as much money as he can, but he also wants to enjoy his time playing. That's what Free Agency is all about. Its about picking the best possible situation for the player, that includes many factors, not just money. I will repeat, I do not think the chances of him resigning with Milwaukee is good (maybe 10-20%), but to say because he already said no once doesn't mean he won't revisit the idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure Doug Melvin and Zack Greinke when asked the question about resigning after the trade, they both made it sound like it would at least be an option to explore. Sure, it could be just PR on both of their parts, but it could also be sincere. No one here can say that there is no chance he will resign here because we A) don't know what the actual final offer was, B) we don't know if that is the most the Brewers are willing to offer, C) we don't know which other teams are going to pursue him, D) we don't know how much they will offer, and E) we don't know how important getting maximum money means in relationship to his personal well being. As an aside, the MLBPA doesn't look very favorably on top tier FA's accepting much less than the highest offer. Is this just an assumption that we make as fans or is there something documented somewhere that states this?

I don't know, I don't look at it so black and white. Maybe he just wants to go through the process of Free Agency to see what its like to be wanted by 22 different teams? I think that would be pretty darn cool to be getting calls saying "We'll do this for you here, and we'll do this for your family." Just seems like a pretty awesome thing for a guy that has become one of the elite players at his craft. He will never be as wanted as he will be this off-season. Do I think it is a good chance we resign him? No. But out of him, CC, and Prince, I think the chances of Greinke resigning the greatest by far.

And I believe he COULD be coming back, he also COULD NOT be coming back. I'm not putting all my hopes and dreams into him coming back, but to completely write it off like you would most other upper tier FAs is not valid based on the type of person that Zack is. The teams that can offer the most money are the places he would least like to go.

Did you listen to the interview? All he said was that he thought ZG had a chance of coming back to Milwaukee and that he was pretty sure he wouldn't play in New York or Boston. I'm not saying that another team like LA or Texas won't out bid Milwaukee, but I don't think it is ONLY coming down to money.

The interview with Lucroy seems to disagree with you RockCo and I think he knows what Greinke is thinking a little better than you do.

I think the Brewers will wait to see if they can resign Greinke. If not, they will probably trade Ramirez in the off season.

I do believe that AAA has better/more mature talent than AA, I just think that is so marginal that it really isn't worth it to say that any player needs to spend time in AAA before they are ready for the majors. Now, we have to remember that Thornburg has only had 13 starts in AA as this was his first year at that level. I'm not saying that he is ready for the majors, but whether he is pitching in AA or AAA, the talent level he is facing isn't going to change that much. I think he needs at least the rest of the year in one of those two levels and if he performs well enough, he should be competing for the 4/5 spot in the rotation out of spring training. I would not ever let him be a RP again until he shows he cannot cut it as a starter. As for some players who spent little or no time at AAA, i look at look at the top 100 prospects from 2007 and 2008 as a guide. These totals include any minor league rehab time as well, not just time before their initial call up. Evan Longria - 44 Games Justin Upton - 15 Games Tim Lincecum - 5 Games Troy Tulowitzki - 5 Games Clayton Kershaw - 0 Games Ryan Braun - 34 Games Hunter Pence - 25 Games Elvis Andrus - 0 Games Joba Chamberlain - 3 Games Jonathon Lucroy - 23 Games Matt Wieters - 39 Games David Price - 12 Games (4 before initial callup) Johnny Cueto - 8 Games (4 before initial callup) Sure, these are all bigger names, but I guess the point is that it isn't unheard of for it to happen if the big league club has a position of need that is open for the prospect to fill, which is what Thornburg was doing at the time.

I understand your point with sample size, I am just saying that to think that neither one would step up to be a good option in the 7th inning is more or less surprising. 8 and 9 were supposed to be locked down. I think the lack of success in the 8th and 9th is making people think less of our entire bullpen. Had they been better, the mistakes that loe and veras (and parra, dillard, etc) have made would be more tolerable.

2010 Kameron Loe - 2.78 ERA, 1.183 WHIP, 146 ERA+ 2011 Kameron Loe - 3.50 ERA, 1.125 WHIP, 113 ERA+ 2010 Jose Veras - 3.75 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 111 ERA+ 2011 Jose Veras - 3.80 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 97 ERA+ I think to say it was a mistake by DM and RR to think that neither Loe or Veras would step up to be a solid 7th inning option is a "hindsight is 20/20" situation. Loe was an above average reliever in both 2010 and 2011 (and actually still is in 2012). Veras was above average in 2010 and pretty close to average in 2011. 7th inning guys aren't shut down relievers, they are guys that more often than not, get the job done. I encourage you to go back to off season topics before this season started and look for people worried about our bullpen. Those people are few and far between.

The difference between AA and AAA is very minimal in terms of talent level. If a player looks ready, skipping AAA really shouldn't be a big deal. Thornburg is close to ready and I have no problem him going to AAA for a while, but I don't think he was screwed up by skipping that level.

Are you serious Brewcrewin07?

Most good AA prospects are less than a year away from the majors assuming continued success.

The point is you would probably getting 2-3 players that have already made it through the minors. If just one of them turns out to be an average major leaguer, that's a better return than what you expect from a comp pick. If we were talking the old system where it would be a first rounder and a comp pick, that's a little different. I would take re signing Zach over any trade. Pay the man. I for one, do not want to go back to "rebuilding mode". Went through that enough as a Brewer fan. We tried. He refused. Trading him away does not 100% rule out the Brewers still signing him in the offseason.

I would take Chicago's hypothetical package over 1 comp pick.

I don't think its fair to write off Gamel after a fluke knee injury. He is still young and cheap and will probably be a back up corner IF/OF if not a starter next season. He would be better to have around than Ishikawa who currently fills that role.

It seems like everyone that makes this point is completely misinterpreting what I am trying to say. Ransom and Izturis are proven MLB players. They have proven that they suck. We know they suck. We know that they offer no value to the team now and will not be with the team in 2013 (god I hope). Bianchi is a guy that has at least hit for average in AAA. I know he has no pop, but his ability to get on base could be an asset as a 2 hitter, or even an ability to take walks as an 8 hitter. The thing about him is we don't know if he is that kind of player. He may be just as bad and possibly even worse than Ransom or Izturis, but now would be the time to find out. The season is over and we have no real SS prospect that he would be blocking. It makes ZERO sense to play out the rest of the season with old, bad players when you have a chance to play a young player that could play a role as a backup next season.

I don't think you understand what I am saying torts. When it comes to bullpens, you can't expect any more than being confident in your closer and setup guy, which is exactly what you, I, and 99% of brewer nation were. We thought Ax and K-Rod were about as shut down as you can get in the back end of a BP, and based on how they did last year, we had every right to believe that. Each and every team in the majors is hoping to find 1 or two guys that they can rely on in middle relief because you are usually relying on journeymen or unknown young former minor league pitchers. You can't expect to have 6 guys out there that have 1.80 to 3.00 ERAs. THIS WAS TO START THE YEAR. We were set, ready to shut down games. Ax is on one of the longest save streaks in MLB history. K-Rod, a former closer with the single season save record, will be able to handle the 8th, no problem. You, I, and 99% of brewer nation now know that this wasn't the case. My whole point to this is that you can think you have built a great bullpen, probably even viewed as top 3-5 in the majors, and it can all fall apart. Assembling a good bullpen is just as much luck as it is skill. We can say, all we need to do is add a few guys to shore up the bullpen and we will be right back contending next year, but even if you add proven guys, you truly never know until the season starts.

Again, I was talking at the start of the season, not now. When the season started, we all said, "If the starters can get us 6 or 7 good innings, we will be pretty solid this year." That turned out to not be the case. And for a middle relief guy, Loe has been pretty solid. 3.86 ERA, 1.3 WHIP. Not lights out, but I'm not sure what more you expect from a journeyman bullpen arm.

A) Name 1 team that doesn't have some question marks with their middle relief going into a season. Loe used to be our 8th inning guy and now would be a 6/7 guy. Estrada, we knew he could be solid in a long relief role. The other guys, if they sucked, we could bring up new guys. As far as bullpens go, ours was about as good as it gets (ON PAPER!). B) I never said they will not be successful, I said that using a rotation with so many unproven players is a risk (and sometimes a risk that needs to be taken for small market teams).