5/7/08 Brewers (Bush) at Marlins (Badenhop): 6:10 PM CDT

[dlk9s]

Wow - I left the computer, came back, and we scored two whole runs!

[LUKE232323]

Hall, stop sucking please.

[iluvlamp]

Later amped up D-bag Marlin pitcher...just like Olsen. Cocky strumpets.

[cnycerveceros]

Gee, who would guess, a line-up full of strike out hitters might go on a long slump?

 

Well I appreciate the contribution of statistics to the game, the one stat-based wisdom thing I completely disagree with is ignoring strikeouts. While it is true that a strikeout has the same outcome affect as any other out, that ignores that possibilities of all that occur upon contact before the outcome is determined: it can be an out, a hit, a homer, a sacrifice advancing a runner, or an error. When one strikes out, the outcome is guaranteed to be an out (unless catchers drops it), while when one makes contact, there are numerous possibilities short of a sure out (including an error, which turns a near sure out into a base runner). Off my soapbox.

Wow Ignitor, you really ignited something with that post!

 

[iluvlamp]

Rluz...We all know the K's are the bane of the game and this Brewers team. The worst of outs. They are like the Godzilla of outs. Or, maybe not.

[LUKE232323]

Gee, who would guess, a line-up full of strike out hitters might go on a long slump?

 

Well I appreciate the contribution of statistics to the game, the one stat-based wisdom thing I completely disagree with is ignoring strikeouts.

 

Either show some evidence or don't state it as fact.

 

Thanks.

While it is true that a strikeout has the same outcome affect as any other out, that ignores that possibilities of all that occur upon contact before the outcome is determined: it can be an out, a hit, a homer, a sacrifice advancing a runner, or an error.

So a guy who strikes out doesn't have his hits and HRs count? Huh?

 

We've gone through this over and over again. An average strikeout is a little worse than a normal out.

That's not what he's saying and you know it.

 

[iluvlamp]

Bill Hall is impressing me right now...and he K's on a ball!

[The Ignitor]

I'm not sure what I stated as fact without evidence. My statement was clearly opinion and had no pretext of facts/evidence. I said I appreciated the contributions of sabermetrics to the game (I think they've changed it for the better), but disagree with the general concept often cited by many sabermetric people that strikeouts are not relevant.

 

I don't dispute that a k=1 out, but my opinion is that this simple equation does not necessarily explain the realm of possible outcomes for something other than a k. I'm sorry, but I simply don't have time (nor frankly the desire) to due a full statistical analysis (and that's not meant to degrade those who have the desire, just a point that I do not so desire). I'm happy if you're able to correct me (as I've learned a lot from many of your posts). But that is my opinion, and I don't pretend for one minute that my opinion is fact.

 

Also, I'm not sure what I did to deserve such a terse response (especially considering how many other more negative posts were made in this thread before my comment about the importance of k's).

[LUKE232323]

Swinging at junk. Seems to be a team theme. Hey that rhymes!!

[kiwi brewer]

hall needs a day or week off. pathetic plate discipline.

[xisxisxis]

Wow - I left the computer, came back, and we scored two whole runs!

 

Go away for twice as long and see if we score 4 runs.

 

 

An average strikeout is a little worse than a normal out.

 

What's a non-average strikeout?

[dlk9s]

hall needs a day or week off. pathetic plate discipline.

Of all of his AB's in his career to criticize for plate discipline, that was not one of them. Ten pitch AB, where he happened to swing at one pitch out of the zone. Unfortunately, it was the last one.

 

[cnycerveceros]

So, is there room for a quallitative analysis of baseball to respond to Sabermetrics?

[rluzinski]

That was a really long half inning for only scoring two runs.

 

That's not what he's saying and you know it.

 

He's giving a list of all the great outcomes that can occur if you put the ball in play, ignoring that all the best ones are already captured with the normal slash stats (BA/OBP/SLG). If I have it wrong, set me straight.

 

What's a non-average strikeout?

 

Average, as in looking at how costly a strike out is in every base/out situation, weighted by how often they occur on average.

 

Ignitor, you are disagreeing with something because you don't agree with it's conclusion. As if the points you bring up has never been factored in. You think you are the first to consider such things? Other have considered it, studied it and concluded that the effect on strikeouts vs. a ball-in-play out is negligible. They looked at the same games you have to conclude the opposite, only they didn't just guestimate the effects.

[iluvlamp]

hall needs a day or week off. pathetic plate discipline.

The outcome was bad but that was a good AB.

 

[Brewbadger]

No matter how many pitches were in his most recent AB, Bill Hall still frustrates me.

[cnycerveceros]

Wouldn't want the Brewers to get too excited about that last inning!

[LUKE232323]

Good God Dave Bush is bad at baseball. Hello 6.83 ERA.

[Brewbadger]

Awesome, just plain awesome

[jhart05]

I really thought Rickie's bomb was going to get them going.

 

Then Cameron singled on the first pitch.

 

Braun was fouling off pitches.

 

Then, dam.

[Jim Goulart]

What the heck is the Brewers' 6th inning ERA this year and last? Good grief.

[cnycerveceros]

It's getting Uggla

[NYChez]

Typical Dave Bush game. He's perfect in 4 out of the 6 innings, but the two others are just bing-bang-boom, a quick multiple run inning.

[rluzinski]

This game got fugly quick. Hey, at least it was a game for about 5 minutes there!

[The Ignitor]

One thing I can say as an absolute fact: over time, I personally enjoy watching hitters and line-ups (and baseball games) where hitters do more than strikeout at high rates! It keeps my blood pressure down and increases my enjoyment of the game! Speaking of blood pressure, Dave Bush...