Rule 5 Protection -- The 2012 Decisions To Be Made (Latest: Kentrail Davis does not need protection this year)

[Jim Goulart]

Not to be confused with our Brewer Minor League Free Agency Eligibles After the 2012 Season Thread, this thread focuses on those players who will be eligible to be selected in December 6th's Rule 5 Draft, and considers who Milwaukee should add to the 40-man roster to protect.

 

Remember --

 

Players who signed when 18 or younger are eligible for the draft after five years.

Players who signed when 19 or older are eligible after four years.

 

According to the rules, it's how old a player was on the June 5th immediately preceeding his signing.

 

So in terms of 40-man roster consideration, these are the players not eligible for free agency, but who would be Rule 5 eligible if not placed on the 40-man roster.

 

Thanks again to poster Minigoon for tracking much of this for us -- players listed alphabetically within level:

 

Current AAA Players --

RHP Hiram Burgos

OF Khris Davis

1B Sean Halton

RHP Donovan Hand

RHP Rob Wooten

 

Current AA Players --

OF Lee Haydel

RHP Kyle Heckathorn

RHP Andre Lamontagne

RHP Johnnie Lowe

LHP Daniel Meadows

OF/INF Josh Prince

RHP R.J. Seidel

Current A-Level (or below) players --

RHP Hitaniel Arias

RHP Eric Arnett

RHP Nick Bucci

RHP Tyler Cravy

C Jose Garcia

SS Carlos George

OF Yonki Hernandez

RHP Maverick Lasker

C Joey Paciorek

C Emmanuel Quiles

LHP Jose Ramos

RHP Francisco Rivero

OF Franklin Romero, Jr.

RHP Manuel Ruiz

OF Chadwin Stang

RHP Stosh Wawrzasek

C Shawn Zarraga

[Jim Goulart]

Will the Brewers have some tough 40-man choices to make?

 

Current roster is at 41 players -- (Technically 38 as Alex Gonzalez, Mat Gamel and Chris Narveson are on the 60-day DL).

 

Here are the current 40-man roster players who were added during the course of the season --

 

INF Jeff Bianchi

RHP Jim Henderson

1B Travis Ishikawa

RHP Brandon Kintzler

RHP Tyler Thornburg

 

Here are players who are likely to lose their 40-man roster status prior to December's winter meetings, because they'll be eligible for major league free agency or will have option years declined --

 

SS Alex Gonzalez

RHP Livan Hernandez

RHP Shaun Marcum

RHP Francisco Rodriguez

 

And this thread really isn't about debating the topic of offering arbitration, but yes, additional spots could free up based on the possible departures of Travis Ishikawa, Nyjer Morgan or Jose Veras, or others based on any sort of circumstance.

 

Unlike recent years, there won't be as many obvious roster spots freeing up that fringe players (like last year's choices of Brock Kjeldgaard and Zelous Wheeler) can easily be added.

[Jim Goulart]

Here's my own personal take on who will be added to the 40-man roster, and we invite you to chime in as well --

 

OF Khris Davis, RHP's Nick Bucci and Hiram Burgos

 

Now I had also predicted relievers Brandon Kintzler and Jesus Sanchez in the minor league free agent thread. You would think that maybe the Brewers are holding on to the flexibility of adding Sanchez at the last minute to retain him, depending on how other things break.

 

***

 

Finally, please keep in mind our eligibility list is close to accurate, it probably is 100%, but we don't have official confirmation from the Brewers regarding eligibility up and down the organization.

[TheCrew07]

I would think Khris Davis, Bucci, Burgos, and Sanchez would be a must. I just can't see them letting Sanchez walk after how far he's come in the 4 years since he converted to pitching.

 

I'm lukewarm on Kentrail, he's looking like 4th/5th OF type in my opinion though he's still just 24. I'm not sure anyone would take a chance on a roster spot with him, it's much easier to hide a pitcher in the bullpen than go with an even shorter bench, though the Brewers did it for a year with Enrique Cruz.

[And That]

I'd think that both Davises and Burgos are locks. Normally the Brewers might pass on guys like Sanchez* and Wooten, but with the way their bullpen has performed this year, they may not be able to chance those guys getting away. Bucci and Heckathorn could go either way based on AFL play, though Bucci might have to have a poor showing to not make it, while Heckathorn might have to have a good showing to make it. Halton and Prince might have outside shots, though the lack of AFL assignments for the pair is probably telling.

 

*Sanchez obviously had a great season and deserves a shot in the bigs, but I've not gotten the sense that there's a lot of buzz surrounding him as a prospect. He's shorter without a big arm. I'm certainly not opposed to protecting him, I'm just not sure that they will.

[Jim Goulart]

Jesus Sanchez obviously had a great season and deserves a shot in the bigs, but I've not gotten the sense that there's a lot of buzz surrounding him as a prospect. He's shorter without a big arm. I'm certainly not opposed to protecting him, I'm just not sure that they will.

 

It'd be one thing if it was a matter of placing Sanchez on the 40-man or hoping he doesn't get claimed so you retain him, but in his case, it's a matter of placing him on the 40-man or watching him walk away from the organization as a free agent. Interesting for sure...

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I think Scooter Gennett is eligible as well. He was 19 when signed in 2009 and has had 4 years as a professional.

 

I think Gennett, Khris Davis, Burgos and maybe Bucci all need to be protected.

[HiAndTight]

I would think Khris Davis, Bucci, Burgos, and Sanchez would be a must. I just can't see them letting Sanchez walk after how far he's come in the 4 years since he converted to pitching.

 

I'm lukewarm on Kentrail, he's looking like 4th/5th OF type in my opinion though he's still just 24. I'm not sure anyone would take a chance on a roster spot with him, it's much easier to hide a pitcher in the bullpen than go with an even shorter bench, though the Brewers did it for a year with Enrique Cruz.

 

MelvinGord Ash mentioned him on a recent broadcast as a guy in AA that they really like and think has a lot of athletic ability when asked about the minor leagues. He was really in a very small group of players who he really sang the praises of.

 

I think he was asked about Hunter Morris and his chances to win the Southern League MVP, and then Scooter Gennett, and then he went and added Kentrail himself. So whatever you think of him, it sounds like they're pretty high on him.

 

 

Edit-It was Gord Ash on the 1st of Sept, the day before the minor league season ended.

[HiAndTight]

I'd think that both Davises and Burgos are locks. Normally the Brewers might pass on guys like Sanchez* and Wooten, but with the way their bullpen has performed this year, they may not be able to chance those guys getting away. Bucci and Heckathorn could go either way based on AFL play, though Bucci might have to have a poor showing to not make it, while Heckathorn might have to have a good showing to make it. Halton and Prince might have outside shots, though the lack of AFL assignments for the pair is probably telling.

 

*Sanchez obviously had a great season and deserves a shot in the bigs, but I've not gotten the sense that there's a lot of buzz surrounding him as a prospect. He's shorter without a big arm. I'm certainly not opposed to protecting him, I'm just not sure that they will.

 

 

Heckathorn isn't a guy I'm particularly concerned with. It seems we have a guy like him in Kameron Loe, and I doubt Loe will cost much. If he could still hit 95 or 97 as he'd previously topped out at, then I'd be all for it.

 

With regard to Sanchez, I've seen him pitch once...not really sure what to make of him. He doesn't have Marmol type stuff(catcher turned pitcher). But he's done well in the upper minors.

 

 

As far as the BP goes though. I'd have half a mind to bring back the exact same BP this year as last year. Push it to the limit to see just how much relievers numbers vary from year to year. Of course I'm only half serious, but I would be happy to bring K-Rod back at 2-3 million. Loe's solid. Veras I expect to bounce back. He has good stuff. Parra...just baffled about. Kinda like hitters are when he gets ahead in counts and coaches are when he comes in and throws 13 pitches, 11 balls and then flips the ball to the catcher and stomps off the mound before the manager even gets a chance to make the call to the pen.

[Jim Goulart]

I think Scooter Gennett is eligible as well. He was 19 when signed in 2009 and has had 4 years as a professional.

 

I think Gennett, Khris Davis, Burgos and maybe Bucci all need to be protected.

 

Our archives show that when Scooter Gennett signed in August 2009, he signed a 2010 contract.

 

But I must apologize for a big oversight, folks, so sorry.

 

Those same posts indicate that OF Kentrail Davis signed at the same time as Gennett and also signed a 2010 contract (did not play for an affiliate in 2009).

 

I have edited the initial post above. If others want to edit their own posts to remove references to Kentrail, that's fine. Otherwise please overlook them if indicated above. That's one Milwaukee doesn't have to worry about this year.

 

It also illustrates the importance of the new CBA and the earlier signing deadline. You wonder if guys like Scooter and Kentrail are still pleased with their agents that they waited so late in the 2009 signing process, as it just delays everything, including, as we see here, their 40-man roster eligibility.

[brewmann04]

Nice it better that we dont have to worry about one guy seems like we have enough guys to worry about.

[Roderick]

It also illustrates the importance of the new CBA and the earlier signing deadline. You wonder if guys like Scooter and Kentrail are still pleased with their agents that they waited so late in the 2009 signing process, as it just delays everything, including, as we see here, their 40-man roster eligibility.

 

Does a minor leaguer on the 40 man roster get paid more than if he isn't on it?

[Roderick]

Heckathorn isn't a guy I'm particularly concerned with. It seems we have a guy like him in Kameron Loe, and I doubt Loe will cost much.

 

Loe made $2.175M this year, so I would assume ~$2.9M in his last year of arby in 2013.

[TheCrew07]

It also illustrates the importance of the new CBA and the earlier signing deadline. You wonder if guys like Scooter and Kentrail are still pleased with their agents that they waited so late in the 2009 signing process, as it just delays everything, including, as we see here, their 40-man roster eligibility.

 

Does a minor leaguer on the 40 man roster get paid more than if he isn't on it?

 

Yes, of course the level he's playing at also matters... AAA vs AA and so on.

[Roderick]

It also illustrates the importance of the new CBA and the earlier signing deadline. You wonder if guys like Scooter and Kentrail are still pleased with their agents that they waited so late in the 2009 signing process, as it just delays everything, including, as we see here, their 40-man roster eligibility.

 

Does a minor leaguer on the 40 man roster get paid more than if he isn't on it?

 

Yes, of course the level he's playing at also matters... AAA vs AA and so on.

 

Thanks. Another question then. If the min wage for 25 man roster is $480K, is there a min wage for the 40 man roster?

[Jim Goulart]

Players in the minor leagues make $32,500 in their first year on the 40-man roster, $67,300 in their second year, and $97,500 in their third year. Any player with major league service time makes at least $67,300, regardless of how many years of service.

[Jim Goulart]

You can make the case the Brewers lost the most effective Rule 5 pick last December.

[Outlander]

Certainly would rather have him than Parra, disappointing because the Brewers could certainly use a lefty like him in the pen.

[Roderick]

Players in the minor leagues make $32,500 in their first year on the 40-man roster, $67,300 in their second year, and $97,500 in their third year. Any player with major league service time makes at least $67,300, regardless of how many years of service.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Jim Goulart]

Not to be confused with our Brewer Minor League Free Agency Eligibles After the 2012 Season Thread, this thread focuses on those players who will be eligible to be selected in December 6th's Rule 5 Draft, and considers who Milwaukee should add to the 40-man roster to protect.

 

Remember --

 

Players who signed when 18 or younger are eligible for the draft after five years.

Players who signed when 19 or older are eligible after four years.

 

According to the rules, it's how old a player was on the June 5th immediately preceeding his signing.

 

So in terms of 40-man roster consideration, these are the players not eligible for free agency, but who would be Rule 5 eligible if not placed on the 40-man roster.

 

Players listed alphabetically within level:

 

Current AAA Players --

RHP Jairo Asencio

C Dayton Buller

RHP Hiram Burgos

OF Khris Davis

RHP Frankie De La Cruz

2B Eric Farris

1B Sean Halton

RHP Donovan Hand

LHP Zach Kroenke

C Blake Lalli

RHP Rob Wooten

 

Current AA Players --

RHP Darren Byrd

OF Kentrail Davis

2B Scooter Gennett

OF Lee Haydel

RHP Kyle Heckathorn

OF Brock Kjeldgaard

RHP Andre Lamontagne

RHP Johnnie Lowe

LHP Daniel Meadows

OF/INF Josh Prince

RHP Cody Scarpetta

RHP R.J. Seidel

Current A-Level (or below) players --

RHP Hitaniel Arias

RHP Eric Arnett

RHP Nick Bucci

RHP Tyler Cravy

C Jose Garcia

SS Carlos George

SS Hector Gomez

OF Yonki Hernandez

RHP Maverick Lasker

C Joey Paciorek

C Emmanuel Quiles

LHP Jose Ramos

RHP Francisco Rivero

OF Franklin Romero, Jr.

OF Chadwin Stang

RHP Stosh Wawrzasek

C Shawn Zarraga

 

(Players in green were added to the 40-man roster, as most know by now...)

 

In addition to the players listed in black above, the Brewers also have five players on their restricted list who technically could be taken in Rule 5, all players who walked away in the past two years in such a way that the Brewers still formally hold their rights:

 

Brent Brewer, Jay Gibbons, Michael Marseco, Rolando Pascual and D'Vontrey Richardson

 

We had heard that there were 39 players total on the Brewers list including the restricted players (unfortunately we don't have access to the full list), and our projected list would be at 40, but we're obviously close. I can almost guarantee our "extra" player is LHP Jose Ramos, who has missed three successive seasons now and has never pitched stateside (Tommy John surgery, 2010).

 

Here's how the protection for Rule 5 works, this link helps:

 

There are three separate phases in the Rule 5 Draft: the Major League phase, the Class AAA phase and the Class AA phase. A player selected in one of the three phases must be placed on the Major League Club's Reserve List in the same classification of the phase in which the player was selected. Within each phase, only players from a Reserve List of a lower classification Club are eligible for selection. Major League Clubs select in reverse order of their League standing at the close of the preceding championship season. Keep in mind that the roster size for purposes of the Rule 5 draft is much larger than the actual playing rosters. The Major League reserve roster is 40, while the playing roster is 25. The AAA roster size is 38, and the AA roster size is 37.

 

So the Brewers could theoretically protect nearly all their eligibles at the AAA level with 38 slots, but that's not what will happen. There will be players protected below the AAA level, and those players will be eligible to be plucked with no special return obligation on the other side. It's a way for organizations to supplement areas where they may lack depth, and organizations can also expose players that aren't in their plans to give them opportunities elsewhere.

 

Players grabbed by the Brewers in the minor league phase of Rule 5 in past years include RHP's Steve Bray, Joe Bateman, and Mark Holliman, and utility man Juan Sanchez, who just ended a four-year run in the organization. Players the Brewers have lost in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 draft include RHP's Patrick Ryan and Bo Hall, INF Guilder Rodriguez, and catcher John Vanden Berg. (Names for the diehard forum followers here...)

 

In 2009, Matt Eddy of Baseball America wrote about the minor league phase of Rule 5.

 

NOTE: We have learned, and since confirmed with a few sources, including his agent Joe Rosen, that the Brewers informed Eric Farris he would be protected on the AA Rule 5 list, not the AAA. Thus, Farris is not eligible to be taken in the major league phase of Rule 5, but can be taken in the minor league phase, again, with no special obligation rules for returning the player.

 

This makes sense. Farris and Scooter Gennett are both 2013 AAA second basemen with limited experience elsewhere on the infield. If the Brewers have exhausted the possibilities of moving Farris for trade value, allowing him to be taken in minor league Rule 5 would be a nice way to give Farris a clean start elsewhere (Eric is still a season away from minor league free agency). It would be hard to imagine Farris would not be picked, but it the 2007 4th rounder is not, that could be a bit awkward.