2017-09-19: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Williams) 6:05 PM CDT [Brewers record 81st win, 1-0]

[hawing]

Playing the Pirates on International Talk Like A Pirate Day. Y'arrr.

 

BREWERS (80-70)

1B Eric Thames (L)

2B Neil Walker (S)

LF Ryan Braun ®

3B Travis Shaw (L)

RF Domingo Santana ®

C Stephen Vogt (L)

SS Orlando Arcia ®

CF Brett Phillips (L)

RHP Chase Anderson ®

 

 

PIRATES (68-83)

2B Adam Frazier (L)

LF Starling Marte ®

CF Andrew McCutchen ®

1B Josh Bell (S)

RF Gregory Polanco (L)

SS Jordy Mercer ®

C Elias Diaz ®

3B Max Moroff (S)

RHP Trevor Williams ®

[newrivervalley]

Would still like to see Arcia or Phillips leading off vs. Thames. Think speed still kills at leadoff.

[pacopete4]

Would still like to see Arcia or Phillips leading off vs. Thames. Think speed still kills at leadoff.

 

Speed only kills if it gets on base. Neither of those two has done enough of that to warrant being atop the lineup yet.

[tmwiese55]

Thames has been on fire lately and he's not exactly slow or anything. No qualms with him up there. This is probably the exact lineup I'd roll with today.

[KeithStone53151]

I would like to see pina get a bit more playing time, but that's not a big concern. I care much less for Thames leading off. I would rather see him batting with men in base the way he's swinging it. Phillips sees a lot of pitches as well and is the logical candidate given these 8. It should not be arcia either. I like the 2-5 that we currently see. Today is must win with brault on the mound tomorrow

[FVBrewerFan]

Yesterday CC was crazy for sitting Santana. Oh wait....he was resting his back. Now we're nitpicking where Thames bats in the line-up? Arguments that he's hot, if that's your argument why wouldn't you want him to have the best odds at getting more ABs? Braun, Shaw, and Santana have been hot enough too. A week or two ago nobody even wanted Thames in the line-up at all. I swear most of the gripes in here turn out to be flat out wrong. Yet rarely do I see someone own up to it, they just move on to the next complaint.

 

Can we try to at least wait until CC or a player actually does something stupid in the game before we start complaining?

[BuckyBrewer61]

Yeah I get that Craig is playing R vs L matches with his lineups of late, but would prefer to see more Manny than Vogt

[topper09er]

Better not walk Marte because that is a double with Vogt catching. So far this year he is 0-20 on SB attempts...

[pacopete4]

Yesterday CC was crazy for sitting Santana. Oh wait....he was resting his back. Now we're nitpicking where Thames bats in the line-up? Arguments that he's hot, if that's your argument why wouldn't you want him to have the best odds at getting more ABs? Braun, Shaw, and Santana have been hot enough too. A week or two ago nobody even wanted Thames in the line-up at all. I swear most of the gripes in here turn out to be flat out wrong. Yet rarely do I see someone own up to it, they just move on to the next complaint.

 

Can we try to at least wait until CC or a player actually does something stupid in the game before we start complaining?

 

Holy hell man. This is a message board and a game thread at that. It's called discussion. It can happen. Are people wrong? Sure. But people are right too. Either way, wowzers.

[TURBO]

I do not like seeing Vogt and his noodle arm behind the plate. Use him to pinch hit in a HR situation, but man, I cringe with him catching when a runner is on base.

[tmwiese55]

I was very surprised to see Vogt is only 5/32 in September. Had it in my head that he's still been hitting well. He did hit 385 in August though. Still its the right lefty, I'm used to it.

[adambr2]

I really like Travis Shaw, he was a great acquisition and I hope he's here a long time. But he hasn't done much to rid himself of his Red Sox reputation as a first half player.

[TURBO]

Man, that arm is just pathetic... I wouldn't play him behind the plate, everything just means so much right now, and giving up a double for every single is just not going to cut it.

 

I wonder if taking 3rd will be in the heads of the Pirate base runners too? Why not?

[BuckyBrewer61]

Vogt's bat is not good enough to justify starting him as much as we have with that noodle arm. Please hit a dinger tonight and prove me wrong, Stephen.

[TURBO]

I like this line-up, it is probably the best one we can throw out there EXCEPT for Vogt. His arm is just not acceptable in a playoff run...

[adambr2]

I was very surprised to see Vogt is only 5/32 in September. Had it in my head that he's still been hitting well. He did hit 385 in August though. Still its the right lefty, I'm used to it.

 

No he had a terrible slump I believe early in September.

 

I do think the Vogt claim made sense at the time, but he's gotten more playing time than I would have hoped for. He's been useful enough for us but the honeymoon period is basically over.

 

His bat is okay but not good enough to justify his defensive shortcomings. I just hate watching him behind the plate. Anyone fast who reaches is an automatic double. It's frustrating. Even if Pina had a bad bat, which he doesn't, the gap between him and Vogt defensively is so large that there's no way it should ever turn into any kind of platoon.

[PinaMadness]

There's no reason Vogt should be playing multiple games in a row ahead of Pina. Not as bad as his defense is. Pina outshines him in every catagory and should've been the primary catcher from the start.

[TURBO]

There's no reason Vogt should be playing multiple games in a row ahead of Pina. Not as bad as his defense is. Pina outshines him in every catagory and should've been the primary catcher from the start.

 

100% agreed!

 

This is a playoff push CC! Every game, every inning, ever runner on 1B matters, life or death...

 

Stupid move playing a no defense catcher based on which side of the plate he hits from.

[TURBO]

so, could Pina have done that? weak grounder to 2B.

 

This really burns me...

[adambr2]

There's no reason Vogt should be playing multiple games in a row ahead of Pina. Not as bad as his defense is. Pina outshines him in every catagory and should've been the primary catcher from the start.

 

100% agreed!

 

This is a playoff push CC! Every game, every inning, ever runner on 1B matters, life or death...

 

Stupid move playing a no defense catcher based on which side of the plate he hits from.

 

Yep. It's not quite as crazy as starting an aging Mark Kotsay in CF in the NLCS, but it's still not smart.

 

Counsell seems to love Vogt, but I'm not really sure why. He already has a good catcher that needs to play as much as possible without wearing him out.

 

Vogt according to both Baseball reference and Fangraphs is a -.6 WAR player. He is quite literally a worse player than an average AAA replacement catcher, by definition.

 

Like I said, he's done a few nice things for us since coming over. But there's a reason the A's were totally fine with just dumping him for free.

[BilliamdaIII]

Yeah, Pina hits righties better than Vogt has this season. No reason to start Vogt for every RHP pitcher we have faced recently. He has been pretty bad since his injury and is useless on defense.

[TURBO]

This is the kind of decision that makes me seriously wonder if CC is the guy to lead this team back into the playoffs, or beyond.

 

It's just plain dumb, does he not see what we see? Does he cringe with every pitch with a guy on 1B? If not, why doesn't he?

[PinaMadness]

Dollars to donuts Vogt's defense will cost us a game down the stretch and cost us the playoffs if this keeps up.

[TURBO]

Dollars to donuts Vogt's defense will cost us a game down the stretch and cost us the playoffs if this keeps up.

 

I hope you are wrong, but I think you are right...

 

Vogt could go down in team history as a starting line-up blunder, close, but not quite as bad as Kotsay in CF.

 

CC has to play his best guys from here on out, no exceptions. Winning is crucial. If he can't figure that out, I can't stand behind him as our manager.

[adambr2]

Come on boys, need to get some offense going.