ARTICLE: Hall of Fame Trial - Tim Â?RockÂ? Raines

[Brian the Automator]

www.brewerfan.net/ViewArt...icleId=212

 

splitterfj takes a look into Tim Raines's career and his hall of fame credentials. Discussion of the article is definately encouraged.

 

Vote Here!

 

edit: added vote here link...

[splitterpfj]

Ok Brewerfans, Raines is up, what say you?

 

I've gotten lots of very positive emails from staff and site members, thanks so much to all of you. Hope you enjoy the article!

 

-Todd

[The Mexican Weez]

Great article and series! I like how you broke down the numbers. You give a compelling arguement. I vote he's in. I'll go check if there's a poll and vote.

[gbpacker40]

I say yes, he was arguably one of the top OF's in the 80's. The guy scored runs like nobodies business. He might be hurt by not geting those 3000 hit but the guy had a nice career average, stole tons of bases and was pretty much unstoppable in the early and mid 80's. 1500+ runs is a awesome testament how often this guy scored. 1330/966 BB/K is something that speaks volumes on his discipline as well.

 

Not to mention the ridiculous .385 OBP and .810 lifetime OPS the guy should be in. He missed alot of games it seems looking at his stats which I personally dont recall, but had he been healthy (full-timer) he surely wouldve had his 3k hits.

[bbrauch2000]

This is more of a question than a response right now. Since I'm too young to know anything about the early 80s other than what I have read, how highly respected was Raines during the span from 81 to 86? I know I always liked him as a kid and thought he was a great player but I missed out on what would have been his best years

[splitterpfj]

Mexican Weez, there is indeed a poll.

[brettac1]

This isn't meant to bash on him, or his case for the Hall, as I really don't care much about this stuff, but didn't he get the nickname "Rock" because of his liking of "rock cocaine"?

[gbpacker40]

BB, Raines was more feared than any leadoff man during that time. .396 OBP during 81-87.

[Brian the Automator]

[ This isn't meant to bash on him, or his case for the Hall, as I really don't care much about this stuff, but didn't he get the nickname "Rock" because of his liking of "rock cocaine"? ]

 

Quit being such a drug snob. We can't ALL afford the high-grade stuff.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

This isn't meant to bash on him, or his case for the Hall, as I really don't care much about this stuff, but didn't he get the nickname "Rock" because of his liking of "rock cocaine"?

 

I was fairly sure that it was for ability to fill out the uni.

 

"Braggs-esque."

 

http://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/c8/67/65_1.JPGhttp://www.canadianbaseballnews.com/Tim%20Raines/trdonruss90fr216.jpg

[brettac1]

8. Management claimed not to know about cocaine addiction of outfielder Tim Raines. Believed nickname of Rock referred to his preference in music.

 

LINK

 

Admitted to being a cocaine user and used to get high during games. Raines told reporters that he would keep a vial of coke in his pocket and would slide head-first while stealing to make sure the vial wouldn't break. Perhaps that's where the "Rock" nickname came from...

 

EDIT: I will add that I voted yes. He has much more of a case than does Dawson, in my opinion. He was putting up .400 OBP when putting up a .400 OBP wasn't cool. He also played on one of my favorite A's teams (1999) along with Stairs, Jaha, Phillips, etc.

[Jacob008]

Todd, great article, love the series.

 

Caught Stealing.

I think an important number you left out is caught stealing. I'm not familiar with Raines' career, so I don't know how skilled of a base stealer he was. But if he was caught more regularly than the other base stealing HoF members, that might swing my vote to no.

 

...well i checked, he had an excellent SB%. Career 84% base stealer. I wonder if that's better than your control group...

 

thanks again, great work.

[splitterpfj]

Great point Jacob.............

 

Raines was indeed successful on 84% of his steal attempts

 

Control group 79%

[gbpacker40]

Can we get the OBP of the control group??

[davego]

Pretty hard to, in my opinion, not put Raines in. He was one of the great ones of his era, maybe the second best leadoff hitter of his era.

[RobertR]

There's an argument to be made that Tim Raines, in his prime, may have been the greatest leadoff hitter in NL history. Unfortunately, people didn't really notice his best years because he played in Montreal and Rickey Henderson was establishing his case as the greatest leadoff man of all time.

 

Robert

[splitterpfj]

Average career OBP for control group players....... .368

 

Raines......... .385

 

Make sure you vote in the polls forum. Thanks.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'd say yes for sure.

 

He was as good a base stealer as there was.

 

I know nobodie's knocked him for his drug habit, but IF that were to be used as a reason to exclued Raines, then we might want to pull Molitor (and a ton of other guys) out as well.

[jwaltz]

I say yes. He was one of the finest leadoff hitters of all time. I can't hold his past drug problems against him. He cleaned himself up and moved on. Just like Molly.

[pogokat]

Yup...i'd vote for him....OBP...stolen bases with a nice rate...well rounded power hitter (lots of doubles)

 

2600 hits with 800 sb's...had a great OBP...

 

he's a hall of famer...even though i'm not sure he'll get in...he never really seemed like a star....kinda like biggi...he was always a really great player, but he was never a superstar...i wonder how that will affect him...

[splitterpfj]

Voting in the Raines poll stands at 8 votes yes, 5 votes no........Tim's got a shot at 75% with this group.........keep the arguments coming!

[plowjockey]

Yep. For 5 or 6 years in the early '80's he was as dominant a player as there was in the game. In addition he has solid career numbers, even though he stayed around way too long past his prime. Good research.

It's probably best to forget the drugs comments, unless you want to also dig up a certain trial transcript (also in the '80's) of a convicted Milwaukee cocaine dealer and his very open dealings with a certain Hall of Fame (to be) Milwaukee Brewer.

[huntsvillefan]

I've voted no to every proposition so far without the slightest temptation to vote yes.

Yet I see Tim Raines as a complete 'no brainer' yes vote.

As Robert pointed out, it was his misfortune to play at the same time as Rickey Henderson, but being the second greatest leadoff man of all time isn't exactly chopped liver!

Certainly more deserving than many of the OFers already in the Hall and if you think Molitor belongs (on the whole I do) its very hard to see how you can keep Raines out.

I'm surprized how close the vote is on this one and I'd love to hear some of the justification from the no voters.

[splitterpfj]

I'm with Huntsville on this one.

 

No one has admitted to voting no in this thread, but the vote stands at 10-6..........why?

[BillScottCanRake]

I'll admit to being a bit torn on this one, but I have decided to vote YES. I think the key for me is to make sure to vote him in not as an OFer, but as a lead off hitter.

 

His ability to hit for a good average, get on base at a very good rate, and steal bases at a high rate all make him the second best leadoff hitter of the 80s. While I wouldn't go so far as to say he was one of the dominate players of his generation, he was a dominate leadoff hitter, and it's that line of thought that lead me to vote YES.