keston hiura recalled from class aaa nashville

[Jopal78]

16 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

When Keston was putting up lines of 0.200 OPS and wRC+ of 4, I was all over the Brewers for continuing to have him work out his issues at the Major League level.  They decided it was fun for the fans and the rest of the team to see him struggle. Now he's actually putting up decent numbers and they decide to send him to the minors.  Yep that makes a ton of sense.  

Who cares if he K's 45-50% of the time if he's giving you wRC+ of 128.  Do we need to have a discussion of how strikeouts are so similar to any other out in overall value that they can be treated the same? Sure k% can be a predictor of future success, but they have nothing to do with current production.  And while stats can be predictors, there is nothing that is accurate enough that they don't have plenty of exceptions. I'm sure the Brewers are looking at Keston's splits and they are thinking it doesn't make any sense.  Which is simply the trend when looking at tons of historical data.  There just isn't any reason he should have reverse splits that are sustainable so they continue to use him counter to his splits.  Fine, but if a trend continue why buck the trend simply because you don't believe it?  

Yes they do and forums like this exist where we debate the moves the team makes.  Simply to cop out with "the team has more info" indicates that maybe there's no need to have these forums because why should anyone ever comment on what the team has done when the team will always have more data.  Like the Brewers success in the MLB draft.  Here we are 10 years into the Stearns tenure and we still have a farm system in the bottom third.  Yep they CLEARLY know so much more than other teams and us.  They are just dunking in everyone's face.  Oops.  Forgot the unwritten rule that we shouldn't ever question management.  Brock, turn off the lights and shut the door.

That's rich from someone who said I was salty with my previous comment.  Why don't you use his career stats?  Why do you parse out a subset?  Because it supports your argument while all his numbers weakens your point?  Is that you being sweet to my salty?

Have you sent your resume in to any teams yet? GMs are going to start getting fired, clearly you have it figured out and I am mystified why you’re not already in charge on an MLB team’s Baseball operations department….

 

By the way, I didn’t use Hiura’s career numbers because Hiura isn’t the same player he was in 2019. He was great in a little more than a half season’s of work. Then teams figured out how to attack him, he hasn’t made an adjustment years later and his stats nose dived and this year when he is able to get the bat on the ball they have gone over the fence at a historic rate against RHP.

[NBBrewFan]

27 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

By the way, I didn’t use Hiura’s career numbers because Hiura isn’t the same player he was in 2019. He was great in a little more than a half season’s of work. Then teams figured out how to attack him, he hasn’t made an adjustment years later and his stats nose dived and this year when he is able to get the bat on the ball they have gone over the fence at a historic rate against RHP.

At least you are consistent with your selective use of facts.  

Yes, of course pitchers adjust to hitters and hitters need to adjust to those adjustments, repeat.  It's a constant adjustment not just a 1-2.  Maybe given the pandemic and his mom's cancer it just took him longer to make the necessary adjustments, or he's just a crappy hitter that just by luck makes solid enough contact against RHP that he hits at a historic HR rate.  Yep must ONLY be luck.

And what are his numbers this year?  Like 2019 or 2020,2021? Your fixation on his miniscule AB against RHP is really mind boggling. He never had a similar split in 2020 or 2021 or a "streak" near what he has put together in 2022.  Is it even possible for you to imagine that maybe he's made some adjustments and the result is what we see in 2022.  Maybe not at the pace of Babe Ruth, but he may be somewhere between the 2019 and the 2020/21 version of Keston Hiura? McCutcheon has a NEGATIVE WAR so far, NEGATIVE, while Hiura is at 0.8 fWAR, yet they trot Cutch out every day and Hiura gets sent to the minors so they can keep 3, yes 3 friggin catchers while 2 of them have available options.  Yeah, I know you don't sit a Free Agent in Milwaukee because heaven forbid you require them to actually be productive, like other teams, because the next time we try to sign someone with no other options you want that FA to think so positively about the Brewers that they'll sign, even though they don't have a single other offer. 

[Jopal78]

52 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

At least you are consistent with your selective use of facts.  

Yes, of course pitchers adjust to hitters and hitters need to adjust to those adjustments, repeat.  It's a constant adjustment not just a 1-2.  Maybe given the pandemic and his mom's cancer it just took him longer to make the necessary adjustments, or he's just a crappy hitter that just by luck makes solid enough contact against RHP that he hits at a historic HR rate.  Yep must ONLY be luck.

And what are his numbers this year?  Like 2019 or 2020,2021? Your fixation on his miniscule AB against RHP is really mind boggling. He never had a similar split in 2020 or 2021 or a "streak" near what he has put together in 2022.  Is it even possible for you to imagine that maybe he's made some adjustments and the result is what we see in 2022.  Maybe not at the pace of Babe Ruth, but he may be somewhere between the 2019 and the 2020/21 version of Keston Hiura? McCutcheon has a NEGATIVE WAR so far, NEGATIVE, while Hiura is at 0.8 fWAR, yet they trot Cutch out every day and Hiura gets sent to the minors so they can keep 3, yes 3 friggin catchers while 2 of them have available options.  Yeah, I know you don't sit a Free Agent in Milwaukee because heaven forbid you require them to actually be productive, like other teams, because the next time we try to sign someone with no other options you want that FA to think so positively about the Brewers that they'll sign, even though they don't have a single other offer. 

I don’t even know what your real complaint is anymore. Hiura should not have been optioned? They needed to open a roster spot and Hiura was someone who is expendable are and not subject to waivers if they remove them from the roster; simple as that.

The analytics suggest Hiura should play over other players? Analytics are great but  there’s not a team baseball who’s decision making is based solely on analytics. 
 

Hiura’s a great player being treated unfairly? Pro sports are a “ what have you done for me lately” venture. Given his performance since 2019 there’s organizations that would’ve cut bait already. I am sure you disagree with their baseball judgment. The fact Milwaukee has acquired Wong, Tellez, and McCutchen should tell you a lot about what the organization thinks of Hiura.

[NBBrewFan]

21 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t even know what your real complaint is anymore. Hiura should not have been optioned? They needed to open a roster spot and Hiura was someone who is expendable are and not subject to waivers if they remove them from the roster; simple as that.

The analytics suggest Hiura should play over other players? Analytics are great but  there’s not a team baseball who’s decision making is based solely on analytics. 
 

Hiura’s a great player being treated unfairly? Pro sports are a “ what have you done for me lately” venture. Given his performance since 2019 there’s organizations that would’ve cut bait already. I am sure you disagree with their baseball judgment. The fact Milwaukee has acquired Wong, Tellez, and McCutchen should tell you a lot about what the organization thinks of Hiura.

Silly me bringing facts and logic to a cliche and strawman argument.

[Jopal78]

5 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

Silly me bringing facts and logic to a cliche and strawman argument.

Facts and logic to make what point? Do you have one? 

[brewers888]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t even know what your real complaint is anymore. Hiura should not have been optioned? They needed to open a roster spot and Hiura was someone who is expendable are and not subject to waivers if they remove them from the roster; simple as that.

The analytics suggest Hiura should play over other players? Analytics are great but  there’s not a team baseball who’s decision making is based solely on analytics. 
 

Hiura’s a great player being treated unfairly? Pro sports are a “ what have you done for me lately” venture. Given his performance since 2019 there’s organizations that would’ve cut bait already. I am sure you disagree with their baseball judgment. The fact Milwaukee has acquired Wong, Tellez, and McCutchen should tell you a lot about what the organization thinks of Hiura.

As much as you and many others hate Hiura he is a much better hitter than McCutchen and has been the best hitter for this team all season so sending him down was flat out stupid.

[Jim French Stepstool]

I for one am lookng forward to the huge haul we receive in the next two weeks if we decide to trade our best hitter.

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, brewers888 said:

As much as you and many others hate Hiura he is a much better hitter than McCutchen and has been the best hitter for this team all season so sending him down was flat out stupid.

And your alternative proposal to create a roster space they needed for an additional pitcher?

[brewers888]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I for one am lookng forward to the huge haul we receive in the next two weeks if we decide to trade our best hitter.

We won't get much with teams saying to themselves there must be something wrong with him if he can't even crack the terrible Brewers lineup. Sorry but I don't get the love for a washed up McCutchen and the hate of a vastly superior hitter in Hiura especially when it comes to hitting right handed pitching.

[brewers888]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

And your alternative proposal to create a roster space they needed for an additional pitcher?

I don't think they need that extra pitcher and regardless it shouldn't come at the expense of a guy hitting as well as Hiura has.

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, brewers888 said:

We won't get much with teams saying to themselves there must be something wrong with him if he can't even crack the terrible Brewers lineup. Sorry but I don't get the love for a washed up McCutchen and the hate of a vastly superior hitter in Hiura especially when it comes to hitting right handed pitching.

Washed up McCutchen? He's been among the hottest hitters in baseball since June...

[Jopal78]

2 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I don't think they need that extra pitcher and regardless it shouldn't come at the expense of a guy hitting as well as Hiura has.

Suggest an alternative, Don’t cop out   

[brewers888]

13 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Washed up McCutchen? He's been among the hottest hitters in baseball since June...

.709 OPS for the season which sadly fits in with this lineup.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, brewers888 said:

.709 OPS for the season which sadly fits in with this lineup.

Again, one of the hottest hitters in baseball over the last two months with a .273 xBA and a .459 xSLG on the season. That's not "washed up" under any definition of the term. Cain was washed up, McCutchen is not.

[brewers888]

10 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Suggest an alternative, Don’t cop out   

Saying they didn't need an extra pitcher is hardly a cop out but if it has to be a position player off the roster Davis or Severino would be my suggestion and it would be Severino as having three catchers is completely nonsensical unless one of them hits like Mike Piazza who would be a better DH than anyone we have.

[brewers888]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

Again, one of the hottest hitters in baseball over the last two months with a .273 xBA and a .459 xSLG on the season. That's not "washed up" under any definition of the term. Cain was washed up, McCutchen is not.

McCutchen as a 4th or 5th outfielder making near the minimum would be fine but paying him 8.5 million to hit in the middle of the lineup everyday when he hasn't hit righties in years is stupid.

[Brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

McCutchen as a 4th or 5th outfielder making near the minimum would be fine but paying him 8.5 million to hit in the middle of the lineup everyday when he hasn't hit righties in years is stupid.

8.5 million is chump change in today's MLB, especially for one year. You're not getting a guy like McCutchen for league minimum. He's not as good as he once was, but he's still a productive player. And productive players cost way more than league minimum. Also, his line against RHP this year is .272/.335/.392/.726. That's way improved from last year. 

[DuWayne Steurer]

Other than the first month of the season, McCutchen has been fine. He's actually hitting righties better than lefties this season, which is interesting. Unfortunately, he's been pressed into duty as an outfielder a lot, which hinders his value, as he's a net-negative defender, and he makes easy plays look adventuruos.

 

[brewers888]

5 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

8.5 million is chump change in today's MLB, especially for one year. You're not getting a guy like McCutchen for league minimum. He's not as good as he once was, but he's still a productive player. And productive players cost way more than league minimum. Also, his line against RHP this year is .272/.335/.392/.726. That's way improved from last year. 

8.5 million is not chump change to the Brewers and the owner himself went out of his way to say it wasn't in the budget.

[DuWayne Steurer]

As for the Hiura argument, everyone's got their own interpretation of the facts and data, and that's cool.  That's what we're here for, to talk baseball, but how about everyone just can it with the condescending crap and make the points they wanna make and be civil.

Thanks. 

[brewers888]

We are getting away from the subject of Hiura and how he was our best performing hitter when sent down. It still makes no sense to send down your best performing bat even if you believe he will eventually stop performing.

[Jopal78]

22 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Saying they didn't need an extra pitcher is hardly a cop out but if it has to be a position player off the roster Davis or Severino would be my suggestion and it would be Severino as having three catchers is completely nonsensical unless one of them hits like Mike Piazza who would be a better DH than anyone we have.

Fair enough. But I know you realize and won’t admit it, releasing Severino would cost them over a million dollars, not to mention he is a player they liked enough over the winter to sign in the first place.
 

Besides a nice spring training he hasn’t played much due to the suspension, and a third catchers could be a useful commodity at the deadline in a couple weeks. Whereas Hiura could be optioned at no cost.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Washed up McCutchen? He's been among the hottest hitters in baseball since June...

Not at hot as Keston...

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

8.5 million is chump change in today's MLB, especially for one year. You're not getting a guy like McCutchen for league minimum. He's not as good as he once was, but he's still a productive player. And productive players cost way more than league minimum. Also, his line against RHP this year is .272/.335/.392/.726. That's way improved from last year. 

If the Brewers paid everyone 8.5 mil they would have their highest payroll ever by a pretty big margin. It's not exactly chump change.

[DuWayne Steurer]

3 minutes ago, timpep said:

If the Brewers paid everyone 8.5 mil they would have their highest payroll ever by a pretty big margin. It's not exactly chump change.

The Brewers roster will almost always be at least half pre-arby guys and pre FA guys